Why are so many Western people fat?

[waauw]

Normal, it's human instinct to seek out high calories. We thrive on the addictive dopamine released everytime we eat.

And most asians are just too poor te bcome fat and due to increasing wealth that is rapidly changing(with obvious exceptions like Japan).

As you acknowledge within your own post, economies such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore have levels of wealth on a par with Western countries and yet significantly lower obesity rates.

I was simply pointing out, that even in asian countries obesity is rising, especially in mainland China(though according to what I've read that seems to be a possible after-effect of the one-child-policy).

Anyway, there are good reasons, why the west generally has higher rates of obesity:

• Just taking a look at culinary specialties in every country, you'll notice that western foods and drinks are filled with more lipids and saccharides as compared to easter dishes. This is indicative of western culture. Eating said dishes has grown entrenched into the culture.
• Western world has been wealthy for quite some time longer than most of the rest of the world. The unfortunate result is the longer exposure to the clever schemes of some greedy multinationals, who purposely fill their products with addictive ingredients.
• It is natural for nations to promote their own original products and create an air of chauvinism. Japan for instance, is extremely protective and proud of its cultural inheritance and clamps to it as if its life depended on it. I refer you here to my first point.
• I've been given to understand that in some asian countries, like South-Korea, it is more socially acceptable to criticize an other person based on their weight. This, over here in the west, is a taboo subject. It is considered extremely rude to make such remarks. I am assuming, purely on causation, that this might have some effect on some of the countrys culinary habbits.

[mrswdk]

Anyway, there are good reasons, why the west generally has higher rates of obesity:

• Just taking a look at culinary specialties in every country, you'll notice that western foods and drinks are filled with more lipids and saccharides as compared to easter dishes. This is indicative of western culture. Eating said dishes has grown entrenched into the culture.

What Western food are you talking about? Fast food such as pizzas and burgers are often fairly gross in terms of what's in them, but if you eat at a nice European (any) restaurant the menu is usually dominated by lean cuts of meat and vegetables. My impression was that typically carb- and sugar-heavy foods have only become very widespread since the dawn of fast food, and that traditionally Europeans ate just as healthily as people anywhere else.

• Western world has been wealthy for quite some time longer than most of the rest of the world. The unfortunate result is the longer exposure to the clever schemes of some greedy multinationals, who purposely fill their products with addictive ingredients.

Do you have any sources for that?

[*]It is natural for nations to promote their own original products and create an air of chauvinism. Japan for instance, is extremely protective and proud of its cultural inheritance and clamps to it as if its life depended on it. I refer you here to my first point.

I actually got curious and had a look at the Japan thing, and I found this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... d-obesity/

In this specific case, it's just because Japan refuses to feed its kids shit.

• I've been given to understand that in some asian countries, like South-Korea, it is more socially acceptable to criticize an other person based on their weight. This, over here in the west, is a taboo subject. It is considered extremely rude to make such remarks. I am assuming, purely on causation, that this might have some effect on some of the countrys culinary habbits.

I imagine this does have at least some effect, yeah (although fyi, it's not so much that 'criticizing' is okay so much as openly acknowledging and commenting is more accepted).

[waauw]

What Western food are you talking about? Fast food such as pizzas and burgers are often fairly gross in terms of what's in them, but if you eat at a nice European (any) restaurant the menu is usually dominated by lean cuts of meat and vegetables. My impression was that typically carb- and sugar-heavy foods have only become very widespread since the dawn of fast food, and that traditionally Europeans ate just as healthily as people anywhere else.

Food specialties in countries
Belgium: Fries, chocolate, waffles, beer, carbonade, ...
Netherlands: Cheese, Frikandellen, oliebollen, chocolade hagelslag, ...
Germany: Pretzels, Sausages, Strammer max, Hamburgers, ...
France: Cheese, foie gras, crepes, coq au vin, ...
Spain: Paella, tapas, spanish pork, ...
Italy: Lasagna, Pizza, Pasta, Ravioli, tiramisu, ...
USA: Hotdogs, hamburgers, Peanut butter, popcorn, fried chicken, ...

Western food specialties are very different from eastern ones. Especially meats, dairy products and sugars. Though there is a clear distinction northern europe/USA - southern europe. The south has a lot more healthy dishes.

Conversely asian dishes and eating habits contain less meats, dairy products and sugars. But more fresh fish, vegetables and rice-products.
All of which are healthier than most western dishes.

But yeah you are right that a lot of these products have been mostly widely available to people since the dawn of fast-food(post-WWII). Though many of 'm did exist for centuries already, common westerners were just too poor to purchase these products on a regular basis.

Do you have any sources for that?

I could probably find a lot about it on the internet, but I'm not in the mood to go look for some links. I first heard this in a documentary. It's one of the perverse effects of capitalism.

I actually got curious and had a look at the Japan thing, and I found this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... d-obesity/

In this specific case, it's just because Japan refuses to feed its kids shit.

Not that special. In many schools in my country there are strict policies not to sell any unhealthy foods to children. In my own school in highschool, we only had healthy sandwiches, water and juices. Soft drinks were forbidden.

And yet with many schools and even our government taking steps against unhealthy food for children, obesity is still rising.

[mrswdk]

What Western food are you talking about? Fast food such as pizzas and burgers are often fairly gross in terms of what's in them, but if you eat at a nice European (any) restaurant the menu is usually dominated by lean cuts of meat and vegetables. My impression was that typically carb- and sugar-heavy foods have only become very widespread since the dawn of fast food, and that traditionally Europeans ate just as healthily as people anywhere else.

Food specialties in countries
Belgium: Fries, chocolate, waffles, beer, carbonade, ...
Netherlands: Cheese, Frikandellen, oliebollen, chocolade hagelslag, ...
Germany: Pretzels, Sausages, Strammer max, Hamburgers, ...
France: Cheese, foie gras, crepes, coq au vin, ...
Spain: Paella, tapas, spanish pork, ...
Italy: Lasagna, Pizza, Pasta, Ravioli, tiramisu, ...
USA: Hotdogs, hamburgers, Peanut butter, popcorn, fried chicken, ...

Western food specialties are very different from eastern ones. Especially meats, dairy products and sugars. Though there is a clear distinction northern europe/USA - southern europe. The south has a lot more healthy dishes.

Conversely asian dishes and eating habits contain less meats, dairy products and sugars. But more fresh fish, vegetables and rice-products.
All of which are healthier than most western dishes.

But yeah you are right that a lot of these products have been mostly widely available to people since the dawn of fast-food(post-WWII). Though many of 'm did exist for centuries already, common westerners were just too poor to purchase these products on a regular basis.

Yeah, I guess there is an element of Western food's heavy use of dairy and sugar. Is that not just largely a dessert thing though? I eat burgers, pizza, fries and (Korean-style) fried chicken semi-regularly, and have yet to put on weight.

Are many of those specialties you mention eaten widely and regularly? Specialty Beijing foods are things like roast duck and candied hawthorns, but I've hardly ever eaten either (an average home meal is generally just a few dishes of vegetables and a bit of meat, with rice and soup).

Do you have any sources for that?

I could probably find a lot about it on the internet, but I'm not in the mood to go look for some links. I first heard this in a documentary. It's one of the perverse effects of capitalism.

lol. EVIL CAPITALISTS

If you think you've got it bad you should see the sort of food safety scandals we get in China

[KoolBak]

"Have yet to put on weight"...

How old are you? I lead a fairly "normal" life....my weight gain started in my late 30's, around the time I started finishing my 1st child's meals for him and my metabolism began slowing I no longer had / took the time to lift weights, being a self employed stay at home dad...on the plus side, I've been on the go ever since with that fubar schedule I am 5' 10" and weigh 200 lbs where I've been for 10+ years.....dont look like shit but could stand to lose 10....whatever, aint gonna happen. My problem is beer

Both of my kids are in excellent shape and thin....course 90% of their food intake is my cooking so I'll take some credit ;o) Can we get back on the cast iron thing??? lol

[mrswdk]

I'm in my mid-20s.

I imagine that eating both your and your child's food plus ditching the workout routine probably has more to do with it than your slower metabolism

[AndyDufresne]

Nietzsche wanted me to pass this along, from my Wall:

Post *munches a chocolate covered frozen banana* in the western fat people thread
by nietzsche on Wed Feb 25, 2015


--Andy

[nietzsche]

it's not fun like that.

Andy, join my list of mortal enemies.

3. AndyDufresne

[notyou2]

You naturally gain weight as you age and then lose it as you become elderly. However, I believe the biggest culprit is convenience foods as well as ingredients that the multinationals are putting in the foods.

If most of your food is home made and you eat reasonable portions, weight is less of an issue.

[KoolBak]

Make that 2 kids for the last 10 years Frikking ingrained to never leave food on the plate from my childhood....good thing I like to eat ;o)

I'm in my mid-20s.

I imagine that eating both your and your child's food plus ditching the workout routine probably has more to do with it than your slower metabolism

[waauw]

What Western food are you talking about? Fast food such as pizzas and burgers are often fairly gross in terms of what's in them, but if you eat at a nice European (any) restaurant the menu is usually dominated by lean cuts of meat and vegetables. My impression was that typically carb- and sugar-heavy foods have only become very widespread since the dawn of fast food, and that traditionally Europeans ate just as healthily as people anywhere else.

Food specialties in countries
Belgium: Fries, chocolate, waffles, beer, carbonade, ...
Netherlands: Cheese, Frikandellen, oliebollen, chocolade hagelslag, ...
Germany: Pretzels, Sausages, Strammer max, Hamburgers, ...
France: Cheese, foie gras, crepes, coq au vin, ...
Spain: Paella, tapas, spanish pork, ...
Italy: Lasagna, Pizza, Pasta, Ravioli, tiramisu, ...
USA: Hotdogs, hamburgers, Peanut butter, popcorn, fried chicken, ...

Western food specialties are very different from eastern ones. Especially meats, dairy products and sugars. Though there is a clear distinction northern europe/USA - southern europe. The south has a lot more healthy dishes.

Conversely asian dishes and eating habits contain less meats, dairy products and sugars. But more fresh fish, vegetables and rice-products.
All of which are healthier than most western dishes.

But yeah you are right that a lot of these products have been mostly widely available to people since the dawn of fast-food(post-WWII). Though many of 'm did exist for centuries already, common westerners were just too poor to purchase these products on a regular basis.

Yeah, I guess there is an element of Western food's heavy use of dairy and sugar. Is that not just largely a dessert thing though? I eat burgers, pizza, fries and (Korean-style) fried chicken semi-regularly, and have yet to put on weight.

Are many of those specialties you mention eaten widely and regularly? Specialty Beijing foods are things like roast duck and candied hawthorns, but I've hardly ever eaten either (an average home meal is generally just a few dishes of vegetables and a bit of meat, with rice and soup).

Not just desserts actually. Many people eat corn flakes or the sorts as breakfast with lots of milk, eat sandwiches with cheese on them, eat sugary 4 o'clock/midnight snacks...
And unless it's vegetarian night, westerners in all countries here consume good chunks of meat every day. It's one of the main luxuries that's gone too far.

As for how common and regular people eat these foods I mentioned, I guess the following are more occasionally and less common: Belgian waffles, dutch oliebollen, german pretzels and strammer max, french foie gras and coq au vin, italian tiramisu.
Some of these are just snacks, while others are just one of the hundreds of similar dishes. I know for the Belgian waffles for instances, we belgians only eat them we pass a train station and got a craving for a small bite. While Tiramisu, though available in super markets, is a more unusual desert than ice cream for instance.

ps: the candied hawthorns look delicious

[saxitoxin]

This is an interesting thread! As a flexitarian I am sometimes interested in nutrition discussions even though I don't know anything about it.

Also, mrswdk and waauw are nice to read as they have a good rapport despite the point / counter-point. They remind me of Lootifer and BigBallinStalin without all the grab-ass. You guys should go on a friend date!

[betiko]

Mah... I think you don t get fat if you don t eat between meals, and if you go easy on the soda and easy on the beer.
The times I got fat was because of the beer. Too many pints several times a week would make me 10 kilos fat.

Also, take a good shit. Take your phone, your tablet or a book and get cozy in there. Make it all go away so you can eat more.

Taking the time to take a good shit gives you the right to laugh about fat people afterwards, no one should miss the opportunity.

[mrswdk]

Yeah, I guess there is an element of Western food's heavy use of dairy and sugar. Is that not just largely a dessert thing though? I eat burgers, pizza, fries and (Korean-style) fried chicken semi-regularly, and have yet to put on weight.

Are many of those specialties you mention eaten widely and regularly? Specialty Beijing foods are things like roast duck and candied hawthorns, but I've hardly ever eaten either (an average home meal is generally just a few dishes of vegetables and a bit of meat, with rice and soup).

Not just desserts actually. Many people eat corn flakes or the sorts as breakfast with lots of milk, eat sandwiches with cheese on them, eat sugary 4 o'clock/midnight snacks...
And unless it's vegetarian night, westerners in all countries here consume good chunks of meat every day. It's one of the main luxuries that's gone too far.

lol, a sugary midnight snack? Now it's all coming out. I don't think I ever snack, except for the occasional banana in the morning.

ps: the candied hawthorns look delicious

They're alright. I prefer them without the sugar though - don't have much of a sweet tooth.

[AndyDufresne]

lol, a sugary midnight snack? Now it's all coming out. I don't think I ever snack, except for the occasional banana in the morning.

I'm glad you are fond of bananas.


--Andy

[2dimes]

Who's number 2?

[nietzsche]

Who's number 2?

Funkyterrance

[nietzsche]

Fucck, funkyterrance is my autocomplete list on the iphone now.


And to stay on topic, you dont want to be fat? Dont eat gluten.

[Phatscotty]

[2dimes]

I thought he was first.

[PLAYER57832]

[

• Western world has been wealthy for quite some time longer than most of the rest of the world. The unfortunate result is the longer exposure to the clever schemes of some greedy multinationals, who purposely fill their products with addictive ingredients.

Do you have any sources for that?

It is not necessarily true on an individual basis. Rather, People in the United states have enjoyed a more uniform general standard we call "middle class" longer. Partly, we had vast resources and schemes for quick land settlement (rather efficiently ousting the "pesky natives" -- please note the dripping irony ) Europe also enjoyed prosperity, though in part due to the trade and exploitation of other resources and partly due to the industrial revolution/Protestant reformation.

and.. while I know you tend to criticize Christianity, in general, the Protestant revolution had the impact of allowing people to question their faith and leaders, went along with the ideas of challenging "divine right" and so is quite important. These things did come later to Asia.. some would argue Asia still is not "there", (has an entirely different way of viewing the world, in essence, though they no longer adhere to old religious beliefs the same way as they did). Africa is too varied to speak of as a whole culturally, but "economically"/power-structure-wise, was exploited efficiently by the west. (and I must interject here that while the west does bare burden for this, it is wrong to entirely blame the west. The west fed into an existing system of exploitation and was able to capitalize upon it at a time when people just thought of those who were different in ways we do not currently... AND, it must be noted that it was exposure to the results and the ideas that came that has helped us to change our ways to what we are today.. you cannot condemn the past without crediting it for creating the future, bad and good).

To be more practical... Russia and Asia all had much more engrained and longer lasting deeply feudal systems. The Russian monarchy was an absolute ruler, close to a God -- something that Europe saw in the Gregorian kings, but then went away from. The Japanese Emperor was a God. Africa had a mixture, but the western peoples were being heavily conquered, and slavery was how those areas dealt with their victims. Add in Europe sweetening the trade, corruption, etc... and you have the terrible, historic slave trade, A terrible trade that has partially created who we are today, good as well as bad.

South America was even more exploited, by societies more stratified than most of Europe. I would argue its not coincidental that this occurred under the guise of the Roman Catholic Church, specifically the paradigm that questioning authority authorized by God is not allowed, However, that is rather a long-standing debate among us here.

Anyway, all of that led to our ultimate prosperity and something as close to large society equality over a broad base as has ever been seen, perhaps since we were all tribespeople. Its not that we did not have wealthy people, but during the 60's and 70's, in particular, even the "ghettos" were places where most people (deifnitely not all) could at least get enough to eat. Childhood hunger was almost eradicated pre-Reagan.

In that rush, mass food became mroe important than healthy food.

[Phatscotty]

[tkr4lf]

We eat too much?

Cheap, processed foods, lacking in any substantial nutritional value. Sugary sodas. Loaded with carbs beer. Etc. etc. etc. And none of it in moderation!

[Dualta]

Unregulated capitalism is responsible for the obesity epidemic across the world. Corporations have been allowed to run rampage with the food supply. This is one of the best articles on the subject that you'll ever read. It's a little long, but it's fantastic journalism:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magaz ... .html?_r=0

By the way, I live in Japan, and obesity is on the rise here, big time.

[mrswdk]

Unregulated capitalism is responsible for the obesity epidemic across the world. Corporations have been allowed to run rampage with the food supply.

You do realize you're free to simply not buy food that's bad quality, right?