Planet Fitness Bans Woman

[rishaed]

Waaaiitt... Doesn't this place have a "NO JUDGEMENT ZONE" ? How could they make the judgement to ban the woman who complained then So much for hypocrisy. You can't turn around and judge someone for judging in a no judgment zone, that means you broke your own rule. So QED. No Judgement Zones don't exist? Or maybe they belong to people who lack judgement.

[macbone]

All are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[mrswdk]

I laughed when I read that they have a 'lunk alarm' which people can ring if someone is grunting while using the weights.

[warmonger1981]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

What if I was that male in the restroom and I felt offended? Why do I have to conform to someone else's ideology? Do I lose my rights to my opinion? What if I'm a white male but identify myself as a black male? Will you recognize my ideology and equal rights as a black male? Racial quotas for college or workforce hiring under affirmative action?
Or maybe I consider myself an alien and I don't recognize governments or its laws. Who are you to judge me? Your a human and I'm an alien in human skin.

[Phatscotty]

I take it you're objecting to the ban PS? What would you like to see done about this? What should be the reaction to this and who should be doing the reacting?

I would like to see people with a penis use the mens lockers
I would like to see people with a vagina use the womens lockers

Call me radical

So people born intersex should get to use both then? Neither? Around 1 in 1000 people are born with ambiguous genitals.

idk, what have they been doing for the last 5,000 years? not to mention, intersex people is not the topic at hand

It varies, like everything throughout history. And it is relevant to the topic when you break it down into variables.
A= vagina
B= penis
While you seem to have put forward the opposition that A or B exist and should be thus categorized and segregated, I merely pointed out that millions of people were born with some configuration of AB or Neither, so the premise is flawed.

The questions remain:
1. Do you believe a business has a right to set what is or is not permissible on their own property within the confines of the law?
2. Do you believe a business has the right to enforce the rules spelled out in a contract its members willingly signed?

1. yes
2. yes
3. laws can be good or bad. I suspect a racist in the 1950's South said of his companies policy to not allow blacks on his property, fully within the confines of the law. So, you kinda have a point, but you kinda don't. There's just so much more to the story. just because it's within the confines of law does not mean the law is good and fair or representative of justice.

The 1/1000 people born that way physically, their genetalia usually leans more on way or the other and that is usualyb a key factor in influencing their identity. Not always, but usually. And for those 1/1,000,000 of the 1/1,000 who are smack dab 50-50, They have a choice to make, and really it's none of our business to disagree or say theyir choice is wrong. I would not complain about an intersex person in my locker room, and I'll assume the overwhelming majority of human beings wouldn't either and can understand the situation for what it is and be an adult about it.

But, intersex is way different from intergender. intersex is a physical issue and is a fact of life from birth. Intergender is 100% in the mind and not an issue of birth. Some may say it's in the heart or the soul too. But the point is,there is no way to prove or disprove what your mind truly thinks or identifies with, it all comes down to the spoken word 'I decide to become and declare myslef to be intergender' Someone can lie about that, for whatever reason or no reason at all, perhaps even just to cause a problem for someone they don't like, and how could you prove someone is lying about that or if they are telling the truth.

Did you see the South Park episode about exactly this? It's true there are millionsof Eric Cartmans out there.

[mrswdk]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

lol. Using the same bathroom as a woman is 'offensive' to an American man? Do you also forbid women to show their faces in front of men who are not their husbands?

What if I was that male in the restroom and I felt offended? Why do I have to conform to someone else's ideology? Do I lose my rights to my opinion? What if I'm a white male but identify myself as a black male? Will you recognize my ideology and equal rights as a black male? Racial quotas for college or workforce hiring under affirmative action?
Or maybe I consider myself an alien and I don't recognize governments or its laws. Who are you to judge me? Your a human and I'm an alien in human skin.

For me, the last straw was when they suggested casting a black man as James Bond.

[Phatscotty]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

What if I was that male in the restroom and I felt offended? Why do I have to conform to someone else's ideology? Do I lose my rights to my opinion? What if I'm a white male but identify myself as a black male? Will you recognize my ideology and equal rights as a black male? Racial quotas for college or workforce hiring under affirmative action?
Or maybe I consider myself an alien and I don't recognize governments or its laws. Who are you to judge me? Your a human and I'm an alien in human skin.

good point. It seems FAR more likely and FAR more realistic for humans actually identify with another race, especially if they grow up around it and learning from it. I'm going to start tomorrow, because as you all know, I like rap music by black people. I like it because I identify with that mentality, and it explains in words exactly how I feel inside, and reflects exactly my swagger and how I like to throw my balls around. I'm gonna use it for the automatic +270 points based on race on my SAT. Hispanics get +185, whites get 0, Asians are penalized -70 (true story) PROGRESS!!!!

Mind blowing Warmy...
+35 Darkbux

[Phatscotty]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

lol. Using the same bathroom as a woman is 'offensive' to an American man? Do you also forbid women to show their faces in front of men who are not their husbands?

I suppose the transgender will be sided with every time, UNTIL a devout Muslim is offended...
dang, yall's genius is gonna break the Gotham Bank before the night is out!

+10 Darkbux

[Phatscotty]

Waaaiitt... Doesn't this place have a "NO JUDGEMENT ZONE" ? How could they make the judgement to ban the woman who complained then So much for hypocrisy. You can't turn around and judge someone for judging in a no judgment zone, that means you broke your own rule. So QED. No Judgement Zones don't exist? Or maybe they belong to people who lack judgement.

omg, +10 Darkbux!

it makes total sense though if you think about it, in that people have been blindly bending over backwards for so long without thought every single time the word 'equality!' is mentioned by any kind of minority. The demands for equality have 'evolved' into a statement of superiority. They are just special. the 1 does not have to go along with the ways of the 999, but the 999 have to embrace the way of the 1. Just like I have always aid about this phony Progress, it really is nazi stuff. Everyone bows to them and moves out of the way for them and they do whatever they want, but 'you, oh, you are white and Christian....STFU! well, okay, go ahead and say your 'thing' white person, your opinion doesn't count anyways, only our opinions count.' only their lives and their decisions matter.

[/]

I take it you're objecting to the ban PS? What would you like to see done about this? What should be the reaction to this and who should be doing the reacting?

I would like to see people with a penis use the mens lockers
I would like to see people with a vagina use the womens lockers

Call me radical

So people born intersex should get to use both then? Neither? Around 1 in 1000 people are born with ambiguous genitals.

idk, what have they been doing for the last 5,000 years? not to mention, intersex people is not the topic at hand

It varies, like everything throughout history. And it is relevant to the topic when you break it down into variables.
A= vagina
B= penis
While you seem to have put forward the opposition that A or B exist and should be thus categorized and segregated, I merely pointed out that millions of people were born with some configuration of AB or Neither, so the premise is flawed.

The questions remain:
1. Do you believe a business has a right to set what is or is not permissible on their own property within the confines of the law?
2. Do you believe a business has the right to enforce the rules spelled out in a contract its members willingly signed?

1. yes
2. yes
3. laws can be good or bad. I suspect a racist in the 1950's South said of his companies policy to not allow blacks on his property, fully within the confines of the law. So, you kinda have a point, but you kinda don't. There's just so much more to the story. just because it's within the confines of law does not mean the law is good and fair or representative of justice.

The 1/1000 people born that way physically, their genetalia usually leans more on way or the other and that is usualyb a key factor in influencing their identity. Not always, but usually. And for those 1/1,000,000 of the 1/1,000 who are smack dab 50-50, They have a choice to make, and really it's none of our business to disagree or say theyir choice is wrong. I would not complain about an intersex person in my locker room, and I'll assume the overwhelming majority of human beings wouldn't either and can understand the situation for what it is and be an adult about it.

That's cool. Of course it's no one's fault how they're born, but that's exactly what we're arguing. Is gender as we understand it a trite, meaningless tradition we've invented, or is it hard coded into a person? Scientific evidence suggests its mostly the latter. For example, there was a study of boys that suffered from a rare disorder that caused them to be born without a penis, but an otherwise normal configuration of testes, hormones, genes, brain structure etc. From birth, their testes were removed and they were surgically altered to appear as girls. These twenty five were raised to be girls and were never informed of their condition, the result?

But over the years, all of the children, currently aged 5-16, exhibited the rough-and-tumble play of boys. Fourteen declared themselves to be boys, in one case as early as age 5, said Dr. William G. Reiner, a child and adolescent psychiatrist and urologist at the Hopkins Children's Center.

"These studies indicate that with time and age, children may well know what their gender is, regardless of any and all information and child-rearing to the contrary," he said. "They seem to be quite capable of telling us who they are."

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/ ... Study.html

This is very statistically telling, gender seems to be more than what we perceive on the outside, or the sum of our interactions and traditions. Besides that, it's actually not too uncommon for a genetically male/female person to be borne with the opposite configuration and undergo unusual problems during puberty.

But, intersex is way different from intergender. intersex is a physical issue and is a fact of life from birth. Intergender is 100% in the mind and not an issue of birth. Some may say it's in the heart or the soul too. But the point is,there is no way to prove or disprove what your mind truly thinks or identifies with, it all comes down to the spoken word 'I decide to become and declare myslef to be intergender' Someone can lie about that, for whatever reason or no reason at all, perhaps even just to cause a problem for someone they don't like, and how could you prove someone is lying about that or if they are telling the truth.

Someday there very well may be! That's why we need to research and understand the truth of this situation better. Studies suggest that we can detect:
1.Physical differences in the configurations of their brains
2.Differences in genetic (Which in turn cause a difference in certain hormonal receptors involved in fetal development, that can be visibly noted in:)
3. Differing average finger development

Did you see the South Park episode about exactly this? It's true there are millionsof Eric Cartmans out there.

Yes! I rather liked that one. But don't forget, for every Cartman, there's a Randy that just wants to feel safe and accepted as they compose international hit music on the toilet.

Anyone who has a problem sharing a bathroom with people who might be transgender will have to use the special designated bathroom designed to keep them away from the normal people who don't care.

Why punish someone who's minding their own business, because their body makes someone else uncomfortable?

It's not like keeping genders segregated is always even the norm. Eastern and western societies alike have had on and off mixed bathing for thousands of years. Heck, have you ever gone through an issue of National Geographic? Nudity is really no big whoop either way to a ton of people.

It's a dirty mind that's the problem, even the Bible says so, it's a good chunk of the "original sin".

To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

[mrswdk]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

lol. Using the same bathroom as a woman is 'offensive' to an American man? Do you also forbid women to show their faces in front of men who are not their husbands?

I suppose the transgender will be sided with every time, UNTIL a devout Muslim is offended...
dang, yall's genius is gonna break the Gotham Bank before the night is out!

+10 Darkbux

Just install unisex toilets. Problem solved.

[warmonger1981]

I'm personally not insulted or offended by the bathroom situation but its not about my personal beliefs or your personal opinion. Its about feelings. I'm still looking for a response to the race issue. Why does sex trump race?

[mrswdk]

I'm personally not insulted or offended by the bathroom situation but its not about my personal beliefs or your personal opinion. Its about feelings.

I'm still looking for a response to the race issue. Why does sex trump race?

You mean your question about why white people are not allowed to declare that they're black? I believe Vanilla Ice already smashed that glass ceiling way back in the 90s.

[Phatscotty]

I'm personally not insulted or offended by the bathroom situation but its not about my personal beliefs or your personal opinion. Its about feelings.

I'm still looking for a response to the race issue. Why does sex trump race?

You mean your question about why white people are not allowed to declare that they're black? I believe Vanilla Ice already smashed that glass ceiling way back in the 90s.

I bet 5 Darkbux people who have long stated race and gender are interchangible will soon be told to start stating based on new information how race and gender are not interchangible.

Kinda like the way incest played out in one of the other threads. At first legalized incest was just 'fear tactics' and 100%. never seriously addressed, and lumped inwith bestiality. phony make believe stuff,they told themselves. Then, when a professor at one college used gay marriage to justify his incest, and got away with it, along with another professor statingthe incest indeed is Progress, then suddenlynthe attitude entered the room that sure. incest is Progress,followed by something saying how it only looks like Phatscotty had this shit locked down from day 1 how it would all play out, but that it was all based on something unrelated, and it was just luck. It could still actually turn out every single thing I said over the last couple years is shown to be dead on balls accurate, and that almost everybody else was just repeating what was repeated into their teleprompters.

[rishaed]

Are Darkbux Worth Anything?
Can I use them on Amazon?
Also I used Judgement here as an example, but you could say the same about many things: Sexism, Racism, ect. (lots of political topics)
For Example if you are a White Male who comes from a Family who makes an income of around 40K, and graduate from high school with around a 3.7, with relatively high SAT/ACT scores you might get a low merit scholarship from instate colleges, and the amount of scholarships you can apply for are pretty limited. (Comparatively speaking) Lets Say we change it from a White Male to an African American, Native American, or Asian American Male. Not only do the amount of scholarships you can apply for increase, but the colleges will give you aid money just from being from that minority. Swap Gender, similar things (not as much but still there), low income 20-30K counts and need scholarships kick in (I can't complain about these ones at all). The other thing to complain about is the fact that they encourage you to save money for college early on, but once you get there and file for the FAFSA, they penalize your savings, investments, and gross incomes from both Parent and Child. Which is destructive in many ways. For Example, after I came back from volunteering overseas I worked for a summer and earned roughly 10K gross, most of which i was able to save for college expenses, however after all the various costs from driving and other necessities i was left with roughly 3k (Not even living expenses) My costs for schooling the following year increased by 3k as they dropped my scholarship because I had earned that amount the previous tax season. Pretty Crappy if you ask me.

[mrswdk]

Are Darkbux Worth Anything?
Can I use them on Amazon?
Also I used Judgement here as an example, but you could say the same about many things: Sexism, Racism, ect. (lots of political topics)
For Example if you are a White Male who comes from a Family who makes an income of around 40K, and graduate from high school with around a 3.7, with relatively high SAT/ACT scores you might get a low merit scholarship from instate colleges, and the amount of scholarships you can apply for are pretty limited. (Comparatively speaking) Lets Say we change it from a White Male to an African American, Native American, or Asian American Male. Not only do the amount of scholarships you can apply for increase, but the colleges will give you aid money just from being from that minority. Swap Gender, similar things (not as much but still there), low income 20-30K counts and need scholarships kick in (I can't complain about these ones at all). The other thing to complain about is the fact that they encourage you to save money for college early on, but once you get there and file for the FAFSA, they penalize your savings, investments, and gross incomes from both Parent and Child. Which is destructive in many ways. For Example, after I came back from volunteering overseas I worked for a summer and earned roughly 10K gross, most of which i was able to save for college expenses, however after all the various costs from driving and other necessities i was left with roughly 3k (Not even living expenses) My costs for schooling the following year increased by 3k as they dropped my scholarship because I had earned that amount the previous tax season. Pretty Crappy if you ask me.

Take heart, young maiden. In Malaysia the government has a bit of a track record of giving leg ups to ethnic Malays as a kind of affirmative action (due to their perception that Indian and Chinese Malays are wealthier than ethnic Malays and that this is unfair ). This doesn't always have the desired effect though.

One way in which the government has given ethnic Malays leg ups was to exclude ethnic Chinese- or Indian-run companies from all manner of public contract work and from receiving state support for their enterprises. The result of this was that the Chinese and Indians (especially the Chinese) were pushed out into the private sector and honed their skills in the harsher and more competitive market environment, while a bunch of the Malays sat around in their cushy publicly-supported jobs not having to work as hard. The end result of this was that the Chinese and Indians were constantly upping their game while the Malays lay in hammocks drinking Milo, and the Chinese and Indians therefore gained even more of an advantage over Malays than they'd had previously.

So every time an American institution helps a black guy before you (I'm assuming you're white), they're actually feeding into a crutch system which will both weaken black people and strengthen pretty white things like you. In the long run, you will thank the system for making you the man that you become.

[Dukasaur]

One way in which the government has given ethnic Malays leg ups was to exclude ethnic Chinese- or Indian-run companies from all manner of public contract work and from receiving state support for their enterprises. The result of this was that the Chinese and Indians (especially the Chinese) were pushed out into the private sector and honed their skills in the harsher and more competitive market environment, while a bunch of the Malays sat around in their cushy publicly-supported jobs not having to work as hard. The end result of this was that the Chinese and Indians were constantly upping their game while the Malays lay in hammocks drinking Milo, and the Chinese and Indians therefore gained even more of an advantage over Malays than they'd had previously.

So every time an American institution helps a black guy before you (I'm assuming you're white), they're actually feeding into a crutch system which will both weaken black people and strengthen pretty white things like you. In the long run, you will thank the system for making you the man that you become.

By that argument, if he gets honed to the point of Imperial Sardaukar, he should be happy.

Personally, I'd rather have the hammock and the Milo (no idea what Milo is, but I'm sure I could get used to it!)

[AndyDufresne]

, but 'you, oh, you are white and Christian....STFU! well, okay, go ahead and say your 'thing' white person, your opinion doesn't count anyways, only our opinions count.' only their lives and their decisions matter.

--Andy

[mrswdk]

By that argument, if he gets honed to the point of Imperial Sardaukar, he should be happy.

Hey, what's to be unhappy about when you're that much of a juggernaut?

Personally, I'd rather have the hammock and the Milo (no idea what Milo is, but I'm sure I could get used to it!)

Milo is epic!

[Phatscotty]

Are Darkbux Worth Anything?
Can I use them on Amazon?
Also I used Judgement here as an example, but you could say the same about many things: Sexism, Racism, ect. (lots of political topics)
For Example if you are a White Male who comes from a Family who makes an income of around 40K, and graduate from high school with around a 3.7, with relatively high SAT/ACT scores you might get a low merit scholarship from instate colleges, and the amount of scholarships you can apply for are pretty limited. (Comparatively speaking) Lets Say we change it from a White Male to an African American, Native American, or Asian American Male. Not only do the amount of scholarships you can apply for increase, but the colleges will give you aid money just from being from that minority. Swap Gender, similar things (not as much but still there), low income 20-30K counts and need scholarships kick in (I can't complain about these ones at all). The other thing to complain about is the fact that they encourage you to save money for college early on, but once you get there and file for the FAFSA, they penalize your savings, investments, and gross incomes from both Parent and Child. Which is destructive in many ways. For Example, after I came back from volunteering overseas I worked for a summer and earned roughly 10K gross, most of which i was able to save for college expenses, however after all the various costs from driving and other necessities i was left with roughly 3k (Not even living expenses) My costs for schooling the following year increased by 3k as they dropped my scholarship because I had earned that amount the previous tax season. Pretty Crappy if you ask me.

yup, I'm gonna dig up that article about how asians are penalized justfor being asian and black people are rewarded justfor being black on test scores.

But for now justwantto share a story about my friend in Arizona and what their family did to send their daughter to the college she wanted to go to. Basically, on the surface it was at least 100k, maybe up to 120k for her daughter to complete 4 year degree. I held back my comments upon learning she wants to major in psychology Anyways, she learned about different kinds of paths she could take to get the tuition down to something their family considered 'affordable' The family makes 'too much' money to qualify for aid .. and it doesn't make a difference they are raising 2 other young children or ifthe oldest was the only child. So, the family is breaking up. They are getting a divorce, the mother is quitting her career job and taking an adminstrative job with the college. That way she can get, if I remember right, a 70% discount(?) aswell as qualify as a single mother for financial aid. I commented after 70% discount is probably what the real unmarked up price of the tuition should be, and I did fill her in with the stories of people I know and we both knew who ended up going deep into debt for psychology majors only to end up taking jobs as elementary teachers assistants and retail managers and even one who is now doing labor. Her daughter didend up deciding against pscych major

[TA1LGUNN3R]

TG I think your missing my point. What if a young girl identifies herself a male. She is with her mother. Daughter uses men's room. Daughter needs help in men's room. Can mom go in without offending the other grown men?

What if I was that male in the restroom and I felt offended? Why do I have to conform to someone else's ideology? Do I lose my rights to my opinion? What if I'm a white male but identify myself as a black male? Will you recognize my ideology and equal rights as a black male? Racial quotas for college or workforce hiring under affirmative action?
Or maybe I consider myself an alien and I don't recognize governments or its laws. Who are you to judge me? Your a human and I'm an alien in human skin.

Okay, you're not making sense with the first part. Parents often take their children of the opposite sex into the bathroom all the time. I don't see how it's functionally different than that. I was raised by a single mother, I went into the ladies room until I was old enough to shake my pickle by myself and not get nabbed by strangers.

If you believe yourself to be black or an alien, then more power to you. I don't really support affirmative action type deals, so it's a null point.

Also, you don't have to pretend to be an alien. Just become a revolutionary.

And why would you be offended if a mother and son/daughter came into the restroom? I'm genuinely curious. Do you have such a puritanical holdup about who's present when you're vacating?

-TG

[warmonger1981]

I'm basically trying to play devils advocate. I'm not stating my personal beliefs or views. But there are an unlimited number of factors that go into a persons view or beliefs. To many factors to think about. What if I don't have children. Just because a father brings his 5 year old daughter into the mens room doesnt mean I have to accept it.I guess what I'm trying to say is my and your opinion are irrelevant to another persons. Who's argument wins and why?

If your saying more power to me then you must support my idea of affirmative action for people who identify themselves with another race? Your personal view doesn't truly matter. Affirmative action is law. So by law can I receive the same benefits as a minority? Does skin color dictate race or does personal ideology?

[Phatscotty]

If your saying more power to me then you must support my idea of affirmative action for people who identify themselves with another race? Your personal view doesn't truly matter. Affirmative action is law. So by law can I receive the same benefits as a minority? Does skin color dictate race or does personal ideology?

Warmonger is in the zone

[Metsfanmax]

But, intersex is way different from intergender. intersex is a physical issue and is a fact of life from birth. Intergender is 100% in the mind and not an issue of birth. Some may say it's in the heart or the soul too. But the point is,there is no way to prove or disprove what your mind truly thinks or identifies with, it all comes down to the spoken word 'I decide to become and declare myslef to be intergender' Someone can lie about that, for whatever reason or no reason at all, perhaps even just to cause a problem for someone they don't like, and how could you prove someone is lying about that or if they are telling the truth.

I don't believe you tell the truth about anything.

Sadly, you have no way to prove that you do.