Sharia law

[Vinyl-Taliban]

You don't live under sharia law. Sharia law can be an add on, or complimentary to the law of the land. Happens in England for example. Both parties have to agree to be tried under sharia law. In Australia we have some sentencing and law courts dealing with aboriginal tribal laws and practises rather than white law. Works well for those from traditional communities and leads to less re offending.

To be honest,this, even if it is far less inflammatory than the OP desired.

[saxitoxin]

I'm not sure if you're joking here or just parodying a muslim. Although this does seem to be the way islam indoctrinates its followers. If islam is such a good religion, why do a hell of a lot of muslims want to leave their islamic homelands and want to live amongst us 'pagans'?

Myself, I think islam is a thoroughly backward religion. There are very few islamic scholars, scientists, or anything to mention. The Quran seems to me to be a manmade book, for men. Written by a man with a childlike mind, it just contradicts it's self to serve the needs of the writer time and time again.

lol, with backward religion, I'm sure you mean the Dutch word "achterlijk" (which means as much as retarded). So you're saying that we can expect the vast minority of 'foreigners' (the OP means Turkish and Moroccan people) who have had an inevitable backlog in language, to be scientists.
Funny thing is, against all odds, they actually do accomplish something in Holland. Not all of them of course, but I see an equal amount of 'native' ass-holes screwing up their lives and an equal amount that graduates.

Everytime I hear someone like you rant, I find that I sound too politically correct and that it doesn't exactly cover what I want to say.
I ease my mind with the thought that you, fellow Dutchman knittem, have spoken absolute bullshit from the second you entered this forum. If you really wish to take this stance on our vibrant country, you should move to a most desolate place (the Limburg Mergel-grotten misschien?). Because really, Dutch people are proud of their tolerance and we don't need people like you. Pick a destination, I'll pay your ticket.

- JBlombier

PS. Your argument about the Quran counts for the bible as well, but I really don't want to emphasize that part. Just a little heads-up.

You fail to see the big picture my friend. Wherever islam is there are problems, wars, oppression, etc.

There are no wars in Indonesia, which is the world's largest Muslim state. There are no wars in Turkey or Bangladesh which are the 3rd and 4th largest Muslim states in the world.

In other words:

- There are wars in Muslim states in the Arab world.
- There are not wars in Muslim states outside the Arab world.

So that's not a pattern.

But this is a pattern:

- There are wars in every state within 500km of the Israeli border.

If we want to end war, do we get rid of Islam or get rid of Israel?

What you fail to mention is the numerous incidents of terrorism around the world ( including Indonesia) in the name of islam. The extremists in Afghanistan, Pakistan and all over the western world. If you cannot see that islam breeds and encourages terrorism then you are lying to yourself.

The truth is that as we see more Muslims in European countries, we see more terrorist attacks, more rapes and more child molestation.

The deadliest terrorist attack in Europe in 50 years was committed by a Protestant (Brevik). Almost 1,000 Spaniards have been killed in ETA attacks. More than three thousand people have died in Ulster during resistance to the British occupation. Hundreds of Italians have been killed in exploding trains from fascist holdovers. You have a failed state (Ukraine) on your front doorstep that's drenched in blood.

In the same period, the number of Europeans who have died in attacks by Muslims is probably about 300 or less.

Your house is burning down and you're worried about recarpeting the guest bedroom.

[Fewnix]

What annoyed me this weekend is Xian law. which in Canada shuts down normal activity when there is a full moon and requires fertility rites.
http://www.statutoryholidays.com/easter.php

Easter 2015 and Good Friday in Canada
Good Friday is on April 3 in 2015 and Easter Monday is on April 6.

Good Friday is the Friday before Easter Sunday and it is a federal statutory holiday across Canada.

It's a complicated but precise foruma that determines the day Easter Sunday is celebrated: It is the first Sunday after the first full moon in spring (after March 21st) which can occur as early March 22 and as late as April 25.

Good Friday marks the death of Jesus Christ according to the Christian religion. It is a fundamental part of Christianity along with the resurrection of Jesus on Easter Sunday. Many agree that this is a more important holiday than Christmas since it is the ultimate proof that Jesus is the son of God because he came back from death.
...
Bunnies & eggs

Easter is a highly commercialized holiday when tons of chocholate is sold in the form of easter eggs and easter bunnies. The Easter Bunny brings a basket full of goodies to children for Easter. Sometimes the gifts are hidden so children have to look for them - this is called an egghunt.

Rabbits and eggs are symbols of fertility and were first mentioned in German literature as early as the 1600s.

[knittem]

I'm not sure if you're joking here or just parodying a muslim. Although this does seem to be the way islam indoctrinates its followers. If islam is such a good religion, why do a hell of a lot of muslims want to leave their islamic homelands and want to live amongst us 'pagans'?

Myself, I think islam is a thoroughly backward religion. There are very few islamic scholars, scientists, or anything to mention. The Quran seems to me to be a manmade book, for men. Written by a man with a childlike mind, it just contradicts it's self to serve the needs of the writer time and time again.

lol, with backward religion, I'm sure you mean the Dutch word "achterlijk" (which means as much as retarded). So you're saying that we can expect the vast minority of 'foreigners' (the OP means Turkish and Moroccan people) who have had an inevitable backlog in language, to be scientists.
Funny thing is, against all odds, they actually do accomplish something in Holland. Not all of them of course, but I see an equal amount of 'native' ass-holes screwing up their lives and an equal amount that graduates.

Everytime I hear someone like you rant, I find that I sound too politically correct and that it doesn't exactly cover what I want to say.
I ease my mind with the thought that you, fellow Dutchman knittem, have spoken absolute bullshit from the second you entered this forum. If you really wish to take this stance on our vibrant country, you should move to a most desolate place (the Limburg Mergel-grotten misschien?). Because really, Dutch people are proud of their tolerance and we don't need people like you. Pick a destination, I'll pay your ticket.

- JBlombier

PS. Your argument about the Quran counts for the bible as well, but I really don't want to emphasize that part. Just a little heads-up.

You fail to see the big picture my friend. Wherever islam is there are problems, wars, oppression, etc.

There are no wars in Indonesia, which is the world's largest Muslim state. There are no wars in Turkey or Bangladesh which are the 3rd and 4th largest Muslim states in the world.

In other words:

- There are wars in Muslim states in the Arab world.
- There are not wars in Muslim states outside the Arab world.

So that's not a pattern.

But this is a pattern:

- There are wars in every state within 500km of the Israeli border.

If we want to end war, do we get rid of Islam or get rid of Israel?

What you fail to mention is the numerous incidents of terrorism around the world ( including Indonesia) in the name of islam. The extremists in Afghanistan, Pakistan and all over the western world. If you cannot see that islam breeds and encourages terrorism then you are lying to yourself.

The truth is that as we see more Muslims in European countries, we see more terrorist attacks, more rapes and more child molestation.

The deadliest terrorist attack in Europe in 50 years was committed by a Protestant (Brevik). Almost 1,000 Spaniards have been killed in ETA attacks. More than three thousand people have died in Ulster during resistance to the British occupation. Hundreds of Italians have been killed in exploding trains from fascist holdovers. You have a failed state (Ukraine) on your front doorstep that's drenched in blood.

In the same period, the number of Europeans who have died in attacks by Muslims is probably about 300 or less.

Your house is burning down and you're worried about recarpeting the guest bedroom.

Hahaha just great, got to love these people that roll out the last 40 years of problems within Europe to try and justify islamic terrorism. Your arguement holds absolutely no value at all. Shall we count the number of casualties caused by islamic terrorism in islamic lands? No! I thought so lol.

[GoranZ]

Hahaha just great, got to love these people that roll out the last 40 years of problems within Europe to try and justify islamic terrorism. Your arguement holds absolutely no value at all. Shall we count the number of casualties caused by islamic terrorism in islamic lands? No! I thought so lol.

Generally Sharia law isn't a problem in Europe for now, there are more urgent problems that need addressing first. As saxy mentioned, Ukraine is much more serious one

[2dimes]

What annoyed me this weekend is Xian law. which in Canada shuts down normal activity when there is a full moon and requires fertility rites.
http://www.statutoryholidays.com/easter.php

So you don't like Christians, pagans, both or days off from work? Just looking for a little clarification here.

[Fewnix]

What annoyed me this weekend is Xian law. which in Canada shuts down normal activity when there is a full moon and requires fertility rites.
http://www.statutoryholidays.com/easter.php

So you don't like Christians, pagans, both or days off from work? Just looking for a little clarification here.

I am opposed to government offices,schools, stores bars, restaurants, public and private organizations, being shut down by law after the first full moon in spring to mark a religious belief. That is a clear violation of the principle of separation of church and state, agreed? If people choose to live by Xian beliefs or Muslim beliefs that should be an OPTION open to them, but not a legal obligation imposed by the state on all citizens.

Similarly Xian or Muslim views of marriage should not be part of any countrys' legal system.forced by law on all, but they should be OPTIONS open to individuals. Much of the argument for Sharia law is the idea of an OPTION that ,just as Xians can be married in an Xian church and have Xian law of marriage applying,to the couple, so Muslims should have the option of being married in a mosque and have Muslim laws of marriage applying to the couple,
Personally I find Xian views of marioage, offensive. and cannot see them being forced on anyone.by law but If people choose to marry in a XIan, OR Muslim ceremony and be bound by those views that is their right, their OPTION,

Most Christian authorities and bodies view marriage (also called Holy Matrimony) as a state instituted and ordained by God for the lifelong relationship between one man as husband and one woman as wife. They consider it the most intimate of human relationships, a gift from God, and a sacred institution.[1] .

The New Testament teaches that sex is reserved for marriage.[5] It calls sex outside of marriage the sin of adultery (for the married person) if either sexual participant is married to another person, while it calls voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons the sin of fornication

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ ... ristianity

separate discussion of the use of rabbits, eggs and children in fertility rites

[patches70]

There's nothing wrong with national holidays and its just smart to have the holidays coincide with established religious holidays. Hell, we all need days off, and private businesses don't have to shut down anytime*. Are you trying to tell me that in Canada you can't find a store open on this first full moon in spring? I don't think so. Hell, even on Thanksgiving and Christmas day you can find a store somewhere open for business and the more days off government has the better IMO. At least they won't be making a mess of things on those few days and such each year.

*bars and such an exception as they are often limited what times they can serve their products. But regular old stores, naw, they can stay open or closed for whatever times the owner of said establishment wants.

You should probably lighten up a little bit fen, it'll do you a world of good I'd wager.

[2dimes]

Most businesses used to be closed in my city on Sunday. It was ok.

I am with Patches on this. We should be out enjoying time with friends and family as often as possible. I'm in favour more holidays, religious and secular.

Let's close for Ramadan, Lincoln's birthday, Solstices, the rest of the full moons, hump day...

Thanks for the nice fishing rods though.

[Dukasaur]

They were called the "Blue Laws" which forced business to close on Sundays and Holidays. (For our American and foreign friends, "Blue" means "supported by Tories.")

While the laws were originally enacted by the Tories for religious reasons, when they were repealed in the 1980s and 90s it was the Tories who did the repealing, while Liberals and NDP fought a rearguard action to try to keep them in place. By then, religion had ceased to be the prime motivator for these laws. The basic issue was that families wanted to preserve one guaranteed day off in a week, while businesses wanted to stay open 24/7, with more and more impact on people's families and relationships.

[2dimes]

You want to buy a massage, a hamburger and a spud wrench anytime day or night move to New York. It's not that tricky.

[saxitoxin]

Hahaha just great, got to love these people that roll out the last 40 years of problems within Europe to try and justify islamic terrorism. Your arguement holds absolutely no value at all. Shall we count the number of casualties caused by islamic terrorism in islamic lands? No! I thought so lol.

How many Muslim led terrorist attacks in Europe happened between 1900 and 2000? (Carlos the Jackal was a declared atheist and there's no evidence Abu Nidal was ever a practicing Muslim in adulthood, so they don't count.)

There are a billion Muslims in the world. If even one percent of them were predisposed to terrorism, Europe would be a charred pile of rubble right now.

[2dimes]

Europe would be a charred pile of rubble right now.

Can we have a day off for it?

[Fewnix]

While I try to inject some humour into the discussion e.g. I do not mind people having the option of celebrating what they believe is the rebirth of their personal savior by gathering eggs .

Easter weekend - what's open & closed

show

I do seriously object to the inter mingling of church and state with law that closes down government, federal provinical and municipal , including access to alcohol, mail, libraries garbage collection etc, etc on a full moon , based on religious belief.,

Open and closed

• All LCBO stores will be closed on Good Friday and Easter Sunday. Stores will observe their regular Saturday hours. Some 280 LCBO stores will be open Monday on reduced hours.

• The Beer Store is closed Good Friday and Easter Sunday, with regular hours on Saturday and Monday.

• Post offices are closed Good Friday and Easter Monday. There will be no regular collection or delivery of mail.

• All federal and provincial offices are closed Friday and Monday.

• Hamilton and Halton garbage collection moves to Saturday for those with regular pickup on Friday. There is no change to household pickup on Monday.

• Hamilton civic museums are closed on Good Friday. Regular museum hours are in effect Tuesday to Sunday.

• Hamilton Public Library branches are closed Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Monday. The Burlington Public Library is closed Good Friday and Easter Sunday.

If people wanted to seriously discuss the right of people having the OPTION of choosing the application of Sharia law to their personal situation they would have to be capable of discussing whether or not Muslims are entitled to the same rights to faith based arbitration in certain situations, civil and family, as Xians, and others.

Ontario law currently allows for faith-based arbitration through the Ontario Arbitration Act of 1991
Based on a provision of this legislation, Jewish, Catholic and Aboriginal citizens of Ontario have implemented and used faith based arbitration. These result in the formation of legally binding agreements which are worked out by both parties in partnership with religious authorities.

..

3.2
Europe: U.K., France and Germany
In Western Europe, as in Canada, immigration from Muslim countries has meant that the Sharia has been discussed as a model to resolve family and other civil law matters that have come before the courts in both France and Germany

ttps://www.cba.org/cba/newsletters/pdf/ ... tation.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


USAIans may be interested in their countries frequent use of faith based arbitration as an OPTION.

Faith-Based Arbitration: Friend or Foe? An Evaluation of Religious Arbitration Systems and Their Interaction with Secular Courts
Caryn Litt Wolfe

Fordham Law Review, Volume 75, Issue 1


"

Over the past half century, those facing legal conflicts have increasingly turned to private arbitration to resolve their disputes rather than resolving them through litigation. ... Parties have recognized the significant advantages of arbitration, and United States courts have been very willing to unburden their caseloads onto private arbitration and other methods of dispute resolution. ... Along with general arbitration, faith-based arbitration-a process in which arbitrators apply religious principles to resolve disputes-is common today, as well. ... As with ordinary arbitration, the courts have generally been accepting of faith-based arbitration."

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/libr ... ms-and-the

| TV Show Watchlist
The Good Wife
...
A disgraced politician's wife resumes her career as a defense attorney after her husband is jailed for corruption.

Premiered: September 22, 2009

Episode Guide
Season 6, Episode 3 Dear God

First Aired: October 5, 2014

Cary's pretrial service officer interviews his colleagues to determine whether or not he should be released from prison. Meanwhile, Alicia and Dean venture into unfamiliar territory when a client's case ends up in Christian arbitration.

emphasis added

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/the-good ... od/297522/

[PLAYER57832]

Unfortunately, you are all a bunch of silly "christian" dreamers. Islam has the only true believers...the Christians only pretend to believe. Too bad. It was a good go. Enjoy having your heads cut off...you pagan, infidels!

Christianity is not Islams biggest enemy... Atheism is.

No, Christianity's biggest enemy is lack of knowledge of Christian faith -- a combination of intolerance and apathy. And, by-the-way, that actually goes for Islam as well.

They were called the "Blue Laws" which forced business to close on Sundays and Holidays. (For our American and foreign friends, "Blue" means "supported by Tories.") .

Hmm.. interesting historical point. Here, "blue laws" refer to obscure rules that are not enforced. Some might have made sense once, but no longer do, others.... one wonder why they were ever passed.. things like it used to be illegal to put an ice cream cone in your pocket in one town (in Maine, I think? -- one of those strange trivia points I remember hearing mentioned). In most cases, they have stayed on the books just because it was too much hassle to remove them.


Per the original post, while I am not Muslim and do not agree with it, there is a lot of misconception about the Sharia rules. A LOT of what is put forward by so-called "Islamic" extremists represents basic Islam as well as the KKK represents Christianity.

Sharia laws actually are already used on a limited basis in some US courts, when both parties are members of Islamic groups. Though I am not going to even being to try to explain all the ramifications and causes, it appears it is mostly used along the lines of any agreement between parties. Sometimes religious penalties are used either alongside or instead of secular punishments. This is true for ALL religions, here in the US, more or less "equally", though different jurisdictions might have different understandings and interpretations. (Here in PA, for example, judges tend to be familiar with the Amish... not sure if that would be true in coastal CA, though any good judge can take the time to do some basic research).

[saxitoxin]

Cara Earl is an awesome artist in LA. She made devotional statutes of the 45 deadliest insurgent groups in the world. They're really amazing. These are my FAVs -

http://carafayeearl.com/Los-Santos-de-Terrorismo

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade


Continuity IRA


Shining Path

[waauw]

Hahaha just great, got to love these people that roll out the last 40 years of problems within Europe to try and justify islamic terrorism. Your arguement holds absolutely no value at all. Shall we count the number of casualties caused by islamic terrorism in islamic lands? No! I thought so lol.

How many Muslim led terrorist attacks in Europe happened between 1900 and 2000? (Carlos the Jackal was a declared atheist and there's no evidence Abu Nidal was ever a practicing Muslim in adulthood, so they don't count.)

There are a billion Muslims in the world. If even one percent of them were predisposed to terrorism, Europe would be a charred pile of rubble right now.

Not per sé. Considering that 1% would also contain a large number of idiots too stupid to get their hands on any useful materials, to be able to construct anything dangerous enough, to remain covert long enough, to come in contact with the right people; peole who haven't introspected sufficiently and their radical convictions haven't surfaced to their awareness; people who are just to lazy to actually do anything; people who are too poor to come to europe and buy the necessary materials; people who though predisposed would prefer to spread their beliefs or take care of others rather than commit the deed themselves; women who have to focus on raising their children; people who focus on other cultures rather than europe; and people who are too cowardlike to do anything.

All the previous mentioned cathegories could drastically shrink that 1% to a very small number of people actually capable of doing much harm.

[waauw]

Unfortunately, you are all a bunch of silly "christian" dreamers. Islam has the only true believers...the Christians only pretend to believe. Too bad. It was a good go. Enjoy having your heads cut off...you pagan, infidels!

Christianity is not Islams biggest enemy... Atheism is.

No, Christianity's biggest enemy is lack of knowledge of Christian faith -- a combination of intolerance and apathy. And, by-the-way, that actually goes for Islam as well.

Goranz is actually correct. Take a look at their laws and it will be obvious the muslim world hates atheists more. In Saudi Arabia for instance, it is forbidden to express religions other than islamism. Atheists on the other hand have it worse. According to a 2014 law every atheist in Saudi Arabia will be considered a terrorist and hence an enemy of the state. If I remember correctly, in 7 muslim countries atheism is punished by death penalty. In not a single muslim country is this penalty applied to christians.

Per the original post, while I am not Muslim and do not agree with it, there is a lot of misconception about the Sharia rules. A LOT of what is put forward by so-called "Islamic" extremists represents basic Islam as well as the KKK represents Christianity.

Sharia laws actually are already used on a limited basis in some US courts, when both parties are members of Islamic groups. Though I am not going to even being to try to explain all the ramifications and causes, it appears it is mostly used along the lines of any agreement between parties. Sometimes religious penalties are used either alongside or instead of secular punishments. This is true for ALL religions, here in the US, more or less "equally", though different jurisdictions might have different understandings and interpretations. (Here in PA, for example, judges tend to be familiar with the Amish... not sure if that would be true in coastal CA, though any good judge can take the time to do some basic research).

The US has much less problems with islamism than europe does. Let me explain it to you:
biggest group of immigrants: Mexicans in USA, muslims in europe
biggest group of criminals: afro-americans in USA, muslims in europe
largest group of extremist believers: christians in USA, muslims in europe
who has the image of being a terrorist: muslims in both cases
==> the combined effect causes a lot of hatred towards muslims in europe. Unlike in the USA, I do not believe religion will ever be much of deciding factor in european courts. Especially considering europeans are a lot more secular than americans.

[saxitoxin]

The US has much less problems with islamism than europe does. Let me explain it to you:
biggest group of immigrants: Mexicans in USA, muslims in europe

At least Muslims aren't stealing all of Europe's tubas. Do you even care about tuba theft?

[riskllama]

bloody outrage, it is!!!
fuckin' tuba thieves...

[Fewnix]

Q: Why does the Easter Bunny hide Easter eggs?

A: He doesn't want anyone to know he's been fucking the chickens!

[a6mzero]

Here in the U.S. With the mass incarceration,killing,and discrimination of africanamericans the focus is on restoring Jim Crowe Law. We just don't have the time too worry about Sharia law.

[BigBallinStalin]

As multicultural as Europeans like to sell themselves, they're a pretty bigoted lot when it comes to Islam.