Baltimore

[Serbia]

Confederate, ever eaten at Taqueria Mi Pueblo? Awesome Mexican food.

Bollocks.

[40kguy]

My opinion on the thing is that there are a lot of cops that are corrupted, as is most of our government. Something needs to be done about it.

The riots are not the right answer, MLK did not solve our civil rights problems with fists, but with peaceful protests, as did Gandhi. At least with the riots however the problems that we have with racism will be addressed.

[notyou2]

I knew an army and a police force that filtered out just those guys.



they don't anymore....

[warmonger1981]

@ tzor

Light is not only sacred because it dispels the darkness in which lurk all the enemies of light. It is also sacred because it is the vehicle of life. This is evident by the effect of sunlight upon plant, animal, and human life. Light is also the vehicle of color. It is the vehicle of heat, and according to the wisdom of antiquity, it carries the sperm of all things from the sun. In doing so they became really not sun worshippers but worshippers of God as He manifests himself through the light of truth. I recommend reading " Melchizedek and the Mystery of Fire" by Manley P. Hall. It gets straight to the point on this subject pertaining to the Mystery Religions. Its only 51 pages and under $10 US.

There is a YouTube video called " The Axis Mundi of the Vatican". Only 9 minutes and interesting. By Cort Lindahl.

The Cathars believed that a human was actually a spark of The Eternal Light or God Particle trapped in the darkness of this world. The abstained from sex for the most part as it was seen as a burden to enter in this world.

[ConfederateSS]

------1) Last Post..We'll (*Will). 2)No, Serbia..I eat at the old school places. Armando's by Clark Park or El Rancho's by my school from pk-12th...Holy Redeemer. But I'll give it a go. 3) 40kguy.. THAT LEADER SPEAKS....THAT LEADER DIES....Our country was built, by way of the gun. I say lets all meet up at the middle of the country..Lincoln,Nebraska. Have one last big ass shoot out,like the O.K. Corral. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...This Post was paid for by THE NRA. ...This ones yours Andy.. Now you can show ..Kirk,Spoc,Bones and Chekov at The O.K. Corral..

[patches70]

Well, the six cops have been charged, probably rightly so given the information that's come out. When the kid was arrested it was claimed he had a switchknife. Switchknives are illegal but it turns out that Freddie Gray had just a regular old pocket knife and it was completely legal to possess.

No crime was committed by Gray (at that time at least). The weapons charge can't stick because the knife is legal.
Then there is the nonsense that Gray supposedly broke his own neck in the truck he was being transported in. Of course the coppers failed to mention that they had restrained Gray's hands, tossed him in the truck and didn't bother to harness him at all in any way. No seatbelt, no nothing. Not to mention there is the video of him being lifted off the ground and at that time he was pretty much already unresponsive and his body just looked like jello. He couldn't walk or even lift his head up, dude was fucked up good before they ever put him in the truck. In that state and unrestrained in the back of the truck its probably no wonder he was tossed around inside the vehicle.

Gray's voice box was crushed, three fractured vertebrae and suffered an almost complete internal decapitation. These injuries are consistent with witnesses of Gray's arrest who claim that the police initially restrained Gray (after tackling him to the concrete) by placing a knee at the back of his neck and "folding" Gray's legs back and up toward's the back of his head.

Baltimore's state's attorney has ruled Gray's death as a homicide (which so far appears to be the case) and warrants have been issued for the six police officers. There were no grounds at all for the initial arrest, the claims of an illegal weapon are found to be completely untrue and if these facts hold up in court then I certainly hope all six police officers are tossed straight into prison.

The six officers face charges of 2nd degree manslaughter (which is about right I think if the information thus far provided is true), 2nd degree depraved heart murder (the driver of the truck), aggravated assault, involuntary manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter, gross negligence, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

[Serbia]

For the record, the cops that made the arrest claimed they made eye contact, and that Gray ran from them. This would have been grounds for the arrest, regardless of how shaky, and certainly doesn't excuse what happens.

Bollocks.

[Symmetry]

For the record, the cops that made the arrest claimed they made eye contact, and that Gray ran from them. This would have been grounds for the arrest, regardless of how shaky, and certainly doesn't excuse what happens.

Bollocks.

Fleeing from eye contact? Doesn't sound like grounds for arrest.

[patches70]

For the record, the cops that made the arrest claimed they made eye contact, and that Gray ran from them. This would have been grounds for the arrest, regardless of how shaky, and certainly doesn't excuse what happens.

Bollocks.

That's not grounds for arrest at all. Gray ran away unchallenged. It would have only been grounds for arrest if the cops approached him, clearly stating that they wished to question him and then he runs away, that's illegal. Hell, for all the cops know Gray saw some guy he owed money to and was running away from that guy, not the cops.

And then there are the cops "claims" as you put it, the cops also claimed Gray had a switch blade knife. This turns out to be untrue, Gray had a legal pocket knife. Those of you who know the difference between a switch blade and a pocket knife know that the cops flat out lied about the switch blade. After realizing this one can't take the word of these cops at all, they are all either liars or complete incompetents. Either way, their word is worth exactly shit. IMO.

[patches70]

For the record, the cops that made the arrest claimed they made eye contact, and that Gray ran from them. This would have been grounds for the arrest, regardless of how shaky, and certainly doesn't excuse what happens.

Bollocks.

Oh, and from a purely legal standpoint, its only illegal to run away from the police if they have reasonable suspicion to stop you. The cases of Terry vs Ohio and Swicegood vs Alabama establish that a person simply running away is not grounds for reasonable suspicion. That is, the cops have to have reasonable suspicion before you run away and the cops reported that Gray ran away unchallenged. In their own words, unchallenged, thus they had no reasonable suspicion until Gray ran away, and that's not enough to warrant arrest as per the above cited cases clearly establish.

In a practical world running away makes you look guilty of something and often would lead to the cops chasing you and then charging you with something when they caught you, out of pissed offness for having to run. But its still not technically legal for the cops to arrest someone just because they are running.

Everything about this is screaming unlawful arrest from the get go and if that is indeed the case these police officers are fucked, or should be fucked. We'll see I guess, the police are going to play the victim game and what not, but a guy died in police custody. That's not supposed to happen in the USA, maybe Russia or China or something, but not the USA.

[Serbia]

In theory I agree, that there should be more to base an arrest on, however oftentimes running is the reason they need. And you cite cases in Ohio and Alabama; would they hold water in Maryland? I don't know that answer. Regardless, I agree with you, I think the initial arrest was shakey at best, unless there is more to the story, but given the other circumstances, the cops lack credibility when it comes to telling the truth.

Bollocks.

[/]

It's also possible that one of the arresting officers recognized him; he was a known drug dealer for over seven years (with four arrest just this year) and they were patrolling a neighborhood known for drug crimes. If someone with that repution starts running at that point, it's reasonable to draw some conclusions.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-g ... -arrested/

[patches70]

And you cite cases in Ohio and Alabama; would they hold water in Maryland? I don't know that answer.

Those cases are Supreme Court cases, I'd certainly hope they'd hold up in Maryland.

Regardless, I agree with you, I think the initial arrest was shakey at best, unless there is more to the story, but given the other circumstances, the cops lack credibility when it comes to telling the truth.

Bollocks.

The cops are going to close ranks and refuse to take responsibility for their actions. That's SOP and that stuff has to stop. Not that the rioters are any better, but that's another issue.
Some are saying the driver shouldn't be held to such standards, he didn't make the arrest but he's charged with the most serious crime, depraved heart murder, which has a sentence of up to 30 years by itself. The problem those people are ignoring is that as the driver he becomes responsible for the safety and well being of his passengers. Just like any other driver on the road. As the driver he should have made sure that Gray was buckled in and relatively uninjured before he went to take Gray to the station for booking.

If the facts as the prosecutor states hold up in court, then the charges all seem appropriate IMO. From the video any reasonable person could tell that Gray was indeed injured in some way, he was completely limp, unresponsive and showed symptoms consistent with a spinal injury and that was before he was tossed unrestrained into the back of the truck! The cops just either didn't care or didn't have a clue to the seriousness of Gray's injuries. Either way they (the cops) showed gross negligence at best and at worst manslaughter. IMO.

I don't like rioters, looters and such, but I also can't stand sadistic and stupid cops. The cops have to be held accountable for their mistakes and they don't have cart blanche power to do whatever they want to people, no matter what crime they may or may not have committed.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out. There are good cops, undoubtedly, but police ranks are also filled with sociopaths, sadists and corrupt fucks that have to be weeded out with extreme prejudice for there to be any trust between the police and the public. What's needed is a good old fashion example and these six poor fucks are being primed up to be made that example. Its either that or the more radical elements of society are going to start taking matters into their own hands, which will be very bad for police, law abiding people and society at large when that shitball hits the fan.

Get the rope, string up the dirty cops and while we're at it string up the dirty politicians. After that, shoot the rioters and the looters. That just might be a good start or an unmitigated disaster, either way we'll be living in interesting times at least.

In a way, I sometimes feel sorry for cops. When you deal with scumbags everyday as your job its no surprise when cynicism and some of that scumness rubs off on a police officer and they end up not much better than the people they are arresting. But then I remember they are cops and I lose all sympathy because they willingly put themselves into that position and they are almost to last man all liars. Cops have to be liars to do their jobs, but they are still liars regardless and one just can't ever trust a liar.

[patches70]

It's also possible that one of the arresting officers recognized him; he was a known drug dealer for over seven years (with four arrest just this year) and they were patrolling a neighborhood known for drug crimes. If someone with that repution starts running at that point, it's reasonable to draw some conclusions.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-g ... -arrested/

Oh yeah, that stuff is popping up all over, this effort to blame the victim Gray. Its understandable and for those who don't know the actual situation in regards to how the Baltimore police police the streets, it even sounds reasonable. But it completely ignores the police practices that have been going on there for decades. When one starts understanding the relationship they start understanding how someone like Gray would take off running.

You can draw conclusions, "/", but let me ask you something, and I would appreciate you answering this question-

If you make what you think is a reasonable conclusion, then your conclusion turns out to be completely wrong and you grievously harm someone based on your incorrect conclusion, should you or should you not be held accountable for the injuries you inflicted?

[/]

It's also possible that one of the arresting officers recognized him; he was a known drug dealer for over seven years (with four arrest just this year) and they were patrolling a neighborhood known for drug crimes. If someone with that repution starts running at that point, it's reasonable to draw some conclusions.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-g ... -arrested/

Oh yeah, that stuff is popping up all over, this effort to blame the victim Gray. Its understandable and for those who don't know the actual situation in regards to how the Baltimore police police the streets, it even sounds reasonable. But it completely ignores the police practices that have been going on there for decades. When one starts understanding the relationship they start understanding how someone like Gray would take off running.

You can draw conclusions, "/", but let me ask you something, and I would appreciate you answering this question-

If you make what you think is a reasonable conclusion, then your conclusion turns out to be completely wrong and you grievously harm someone based on your incorrect conclusion, should you or should you not be held accountable for the injuries you inflicted?

Morally?
Who knows? I don't think that there's a way to logically determine morality, so I doubt it even exists. Are you a murderer if you mistakenly give the Heimlich maneuver to a victim of anaphylaxis? If you follow your leader's orders to kill on the "wrong" side of a war? It just depends on who's judging you. The best thing we can do is just follow the word of the law.

I wasn't blaming the victim, just musing at what may have been going through the officer's head to spark the incident. No matter what happened, it didn't justify vigilantism on the parts of the officers afterwards. If they did in fact recognize him, all the worse for the hatred they hold, since that would make it premeditated to a degree.

[Phatscotty]

Interestingly in NZ the spin has been that the protesters are in the wrong here, with that clip Saxi posted leading the charge.

This is both in contrast to previous media coverage around things like Ferguson, and the usual rhetoric the likes of PS comes out with around how media only provides one side of the equation.

Seems surprisingly balanced to me.

#1


#2
Sadly, it is true here. In the mainstream media headlines, this is how the story is told.

the rioters are ALWAYS described as 'only a handful' and 'a few bad apples' and 'NOT the majority' and 'just some younger high school dropouts who can't find employment'. we hear more news reported about the peaceful protest during the riot coverage than we hear about the riot itself.

You will never hear 'well, these bad cops...they are just a few bad apples, not representatirve of the majority. Actually, the guy who got the video of Freddie Gates said this, and you will hear it elsewhere, but I'm noting the narrative of the media, the headlines, what they make sure to always repeat over and over again.

another thing... The deceased person's record is NEVER relevant and can tell us nothing about the person, but the police officers record.... the tiniest hint of something sometime somewhere, is far more relevant and even damning to the police officer. heck, look at Ferguson... even a joke told in an email 4 years ago between 2 seperate people who solely work in the same city department but were not Darren Wilson was damning to Darren Wilson and Ferguson police

[patches70]

Forget the narrative of the media, PS, focus for a moment on this Gray fellow. The only thing he was charged with was possession of a switchblade, but that had to be dropped because the knife in question was a legal folding knife.
He was not charged with drug possession, thus no drugs were found.
He was not charged with fleeing from officers, thus his running in and of itself was not criminal.
He was not charged with resisting arrest, how could he? His back was broken.

Gray has had past run ins with the law, but it doesn't matter, the cops messed up one of your fellow American citizens and expect to face no repercussions from their actions because Gray was just a scumbag anyway. Since when are the cops allowed to make such judgments? Since when are cops judge, jury and dispenser of "justice"?
They aren't and they never have been.

Standing up for these six cops is the same mistake the people who used Micheal Brown as a poster child, you don't wanna use these particular cops as your poster child. Gray's knife was legal, the whole basis of the initial arrest is completely unwarranted. There is zero excuse, there is no way to spin this in a positive light in regards to these officer's actions. That's why the cops want everyone to focus on the rioters, Gray's past to keep everyone from thinking too hard exactly what the cops did and why it is so wrong on so many levels.

[Phatscotty]

Forget the narrative of the media, PS, focus for a moment on this Gray fellow. The only thing he was charged with was possession of a switchblade, but that had to be dropped because the knife in question was a legal folding knife.
He was not charged with drug possession, thus no drugs were found.
He was not charged with fleeing from officers, thus his running in and of itself was not criminal.
He was not charged with resisting arrest, how could he? His back was broken.

Gray has had past run ins with the law, but it doesn't matter, the cops messed up one of your fellow American citizens and expect to face no repercussions from their actions because Gray was just a scumbag anyway. Since when are the cops allowed to make such judgments? Since when are cops judge, jury and dispenser of "justice"?
They aren't and they never have been.

Standing up for these six cops is the same mistake the people who used Micheal Brown as a poster child, you don't wanna use these particular cops as your poster child. Gray's knife was legal, the whole basis of the initial arrest is completely unwarranted. There is zero excuse, there is no way to spin this in a positive light in regards to these officer's actions. That's why the cops want everyone to focus on the rioters, Gray's past to keep everyone from thinking too hard exactly what the cops did and why it is so wrong on so many levels.

Nah, I'm not standing up for these cops. I don't have enough information. I was just commenting how it doesn't matter what happened, if it was justified or not, who was right or wrong, to the media per Lootifer's post.

Gray's past... I don't count all that drug stuff, that's doesn't make him a criminal to me. I want to know why he ran, was he going to be approached? and what happened after that. I get the feeling we won't know. I get the feeling one or more of these cops knew the guy from past experiences, maybe som bad beef, some personal vandetta.

[Symmetry]

Perhaps he ran because he knew that the police were the people would arrest him for no reason, make up a flimsy excuse that stood up to no scrutiny, and kill him in the process. If you knew that you might be killed, wouldn't you run?

[Endgame422]

The police in the USA need to be disarmed.
They should have zero right to use force of any kind against citizens with severe punishment for violations(mandatory termination plus a criminal charge)
a special unit of highly screened and proven individuals could handle the gun crimes/murders.
Most police/citizen interaction is traffic or drug related and simply does not call for an armed response.
Yet every officer is armed and trained to kill.
50 people have been killed in the USA by police SINCE freddy gray.
http://www.killedbypolice.net

[Phatscotty]

I also think it's possible this was about 'I AINT GOING BACK TO PRISON!'

Endgame, you got a point. Not sure about extra special units, but police really do need to tone it down. That being said, a great way people could contribute to that goal of toning it down is to also tone down the burglary, the vandalism, the mugging, the violent physical attacks and spousal abuse, the overdoses, the murdering. Also, us as the innocent bystanders and people who call the police when something else is going on down the road or with other people, we don't have to get the police involved in every little thing. stop callin police over fist fights, loud music, and missing chicken mcnuggets.

A few months ago I pruposefully left a bitter BBS hanging on why police sometimes have a real bad attitude, but to me it's pretty simple. Especially concerning inner city cops, think of their average day, what they respond to, what they see and hear, what they hear people say about them, how people treat them. It seems like it's either 'omg i need you right now GET HERE!' or else its 'wtf this aint nunya biz gtf outta here pig before I cut some bacon off your back!' City cops see a lot of crap. I get they are special trained, that's the job they signed up for, yadda yadda, but they are human beings and they have emotions too. I expect them as well to keep their emotions under better wraps than the civilians, but that doesn't mean it's easy. I don't care if you are a cop or a cashier or a janitor....somebody pushes your buttons or pisses you RIGHT off, ruins your day... many times we carry that with us. even when we try to forget about it, once in a while the very next customer has an attitude as well, and we are in a position to snap so much easier than if the last customer didnt shit on us.

Not relating this to these Baltimore cops, but we can do better too.

Can't we all just get along?

[Endgame422]

Phatscotty joins the movement.
Over McNuggets no less.

[a6mzero]

After years of police oppression and harrassemt, poverty,no economic opportunity,42% unemployment rate,we are surprised there it a riot. I say "Let them eat cake"

[ConfederateSS]

-------Although, how is disarming cops the answer. Can you disarm color? Or disarm respect/educated? I used to work at the Shell Gas Station across the street from Old Tiger Stadium. Someone needed help once,the Detroit cop wouldn't get out of his squad car and drove off. The Michigan State police fueled up at our station. The State trooper drove in to the station. Saw the problem and helped the person in trouble. For you see, a State Trooper needs more of an education to fill his job. Their job is to protect and serve us. Not to enforce us into the ground. We had a Detroit person(Malace Green) beaten to Death,by two crooked cops(like 20 years ago).So,how is disarming the answer? I also used to answer phones,for a bookie in Corktown(Old Tiger Stadium). He told me of a group of cops.On the Detroit Police Force before our first black mayor Coleman A. Young. A Unit named STRESS. That would go into Detroit neighborhoods,look for blacks and kill them. Almost like death squads in Central America. I said shut up. My bookie said ,no I am for real. When I was little one of my friends who I played baseball with. Was a cop on that STRESS UNIT. Damn now that is messed up. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).