Dinner at Metsfanmax's house

[subtleknifewield]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

A grain, and yes I know you're talking about sweetcorn.

[notyou2]

but vegetarians for whatever reason have a disposition to animals and not plants, which, in my opinion, is hypocritical. Either all life is sacred or none of it is. If you pick and choose, you're fast and loose with your morals

1) If you are saying that "vegetarians are hypocritical," you are not making an argument about the ethics of eating animals, you are just being a jerk. Vegetarians may or may not be hypocritical as a matter of fact, but that doesn't at all affect the object-level question about whether we ought (not) to eat animals.

2) You're not making an argument about actual vegetarians, you're making an argument against the strawman vegetarian in your head so that you can be more comfortable. Most actual (non-religious) vegetarians don't say bullshit like "all life is sacred," and that's certainly not the reason why they don't eat animals.

2a) Even if they did, you have to steelman if you want to have a legit argument. Find the best possible version of vegetarian ethics and attack that, instead of whatever random quote you found on the internet that you didn't like.

3) Nevertheless, if one believes that all life is sacred, the best thing to do is destroy as little of it as possible when it comes to your diet, which is exactly what vegetarianism is about.

Humans are omnivores. Humans have been omnivores for thousands of years. I think our current practices of making factories of farms is reprehensible, but we are still omnivores.

[Army of GOD]

2) You're not making an argument about actual vegetarians, you're making an argument against the strawman vegetarian in your head so that you can be more comfortable. Most actual (non-religious) vegetarians don't say bullshit like "all life is sacred," and that's certainly not the reason why they don't eat animals.

2a) Even if they did, you have to steelman if you want to have a legit argument. Find the best possible version of vegetarian ethics and attack that, instead of whatever random quote you found on the internet that you didn't like.

I was attacking the argument of the girl in the video (ala "oh no I like animals") and those that consider life sacred (mostly just religious nuts)

And there's a big chunk of people that have stupid rules when it comes to this: Muslims and Jews with pork, Hindus with beef, Christians with "can't eat meat on fridays during lent"


it's not a strawman because these people actually exist

[Funkyterrance]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

It's a grain, and technically grains are fruits. Yes, I'm pretentious.

-TG

[notyou2]

Sooo, if a bull sires a calf, and you eat it, it's a fruit as it's the fruit of the bull's loins.

VEAL for everyone.

[Dukasaur]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

It's a grain, and technically grains are fruits. Yes, I'm pretentious.

-TG

Grains are not fruits. Grains are seeds. A fruit, technically, is a large repository of starch surrounding the OUTSIDE of a seed, not the seed itself.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one? 8-)

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

It's a grain, and technically grains are fruits. Yes, I'm pretentious.

-TG

Grains are not fruits. Grains are seeds. A fruit, technically, is a large repository of starch surrounding the OUTSIDE of a seed, not the seed itself.

In botany, a fruit is a part of a flowering plant that derives from specific tissues of the flower, one or more ovaries, and in some cases accessory tissues.

Fruits are the means by which these plants disseminate seeds. Many of them that bear edible fruits, in particular, have propagated with the movements of humans and animals in a symbiotic relationship as a means for seed dispersal and nutrition, respectively; in fact, humans and many animals have become dependent on fruits as a source of food.[1] Fruits account for a substantial fraction of the world's agricultural output, and some (such as the apple and the pomegranate) have acquired extensive cultural and symbolic meanings.

In common language usage, "fruit" normally means the fleshy seed-associated structures of a plant that are sweet or sour and edible in the raw state, such as apples, oranges, grapes, strawberries, bananas, and lemons. On the other hand, the botanical sense of "fruit" includes many structures that are not commonly called "fruits", such as bean pods, corn kernels, wheat grains, and tomatoes.[2][3]

Today you learned...

-TG

[subtleknifewield]

A grain, and yes I know you're talking about sweetcorn.

Right, which still goes to my point. Not a veggie

[subtleknifewield]

2) You're not making an argument about actual vegetarians, you're making an argument against the strawman vegetarian in your head so that you can be more comfortable. Most actual (non-religious) vegetarians don't say bullshit like "all life is sacred," and that's certainly not the reason why they don't eat animals.

2a) Even if they did, you have to steelman if you want to have a legit argument. Find the best possible version of vegetarian ethics and attack that, instead of whatever random quote you found on the internet that you didn't like.

I was attacking the argument of the girl in the video (ala "oh no I like animals") and those that consider life sacred (mostly just religious nuts)

And there's a big chunk of people that have stupid rules when it comes to this: Muslims and Jews with pork, Hindus with beef, Christians with "can't eat meat on fridays during lent"


it's not a strawman because these people actually exist

That's Catholics, not all Christians

Actually, the pork rule makes sense for Muslims and Jews...that stuff would more easily spoil in an environment like that.

[subtleknifewield]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

It's a grain, and technically grains are fruits. Yes, I'm pretentious.

-TG

Lol, so I was technically correct.

hey, I don't mind you being a bit pretentious here XD

[TA1LGUNN3R]

2) You're not making an argument about actual vegetarians, you're making an argument against the strawman vegetarian in your head so that you can be more comfortable. Most actual (non-religious) vegetarians don't say bullshit like "all life is sacred," and that's certainly not the reason why they don't eat animals.

2a) Even if they did, you have to steelman if you want to have a legit argument. Find the best possible version of vegetarian ethics and attack that, instead of whatever random quote you found on the internet that you didn't like.

I was attacking the argument of the girl in the video (ala "oh no I like animals") and those that consider life sacred (mostly just religious nuts)

And there's a big chunk of people that have stupid rules when it comes to this: Muslims and Jews with pork, Hindus with beef, Christians with "can't eat meat on fridays during lent"


it's not a strawman because these people actually exist

That's Catholics, not all Christians

Actually, the pork rule makes sense for Muslims and Jews...that stuff would more easily spoil in an environment like that.

I thought the no pork religions customarily didn't eat pork because it was "unclean," ie its common appearance of roundworms which cause trichinosis if undercooked. That's the reason I remember somebody telling me.

-TG

[subtleknifewield]

L

2) You're not making an argument about actual vegetarians, you're making an argument against the strawman vegetarian in your head so that you can be more comfortable. Most actual (non-religious) vegetarians don't say bullshit like "all life is sacred," and that's certainly not the reason why they don't eat animals.

2a) Even if they did, you have to steelman if you want to have a legit argument. Find the best possible version of vegetarian ethics and attack that, instead of whatever random quote you found on the internet that you didn't like.

I was attacking the argument of the girl in the video (ala "oh no I like animals") and those that consider life sacred (mostly just religious nuts)

And there's a big chunk of people that have stupid rules when it comes to this: Muslims and Jews with pork, Hindus with beef, Christians with "can't eat meat on fridays during lent"


it's not a strawman because these people actually exist

That's Catholics, not all Christians

Actually, the pork rule makes sense for Muslims and Jews...that stuff would more easily spoil in an environment like that.

I thought the no pork religions customarily didn't eat pork because it was "unclean," ie its common appearance of roundworms which cause trichinosis if undercooked. That's the reason I remember somebody telling me.

-TG

They do consider it that, just saying there is a further reason behind the religious one.

[Dukasaur]

Corn isn't a fruit, you ass, lol...

Well it's certainly not, scientifically speaking, a vegetable, either. So what would YOU call it, oh elucidated one?

I think scientifically speaking it's a grass seed or something but calling it that might be construed as pretentious...

It's a grain, and technically grains are fruits. Yes, I'm pretentious.

-TG

Grains are not fruits. Grains are seeds. A fruit, technically, is a large repository of starch surrounding the OUTSIDE of a seed, not the seed itself.

In botany, a fruit is a part of a flowering plant that derives from specific tissues of the flower, one or more ovaries, and in some cases accessory tissues.

Fruits are the means by which these plants disseminate seeds. Many of them that bear edible fruits, in particular, have propagated with the movements of humans and animals in a symbiotic relationship as a means for seed dispersal and nutrition, respectively; in fact, humans and many animals have become dependent on fruits as a source of food.[1] Fruits account for a substantial fraction of the world's agricultural output, and some (such as the apple and the pomegranate) have acquired extensive cultural and symbolic meanings.

In common language usage, "fruit" normally means the fleshy seed-associated structures of a plant that are sweet or sour and edible in the raw state, such as apples, oranges, grapes, strawberries, bananas, and lemons. On the other hand, the botanical sense of "fruit" includes many structures that are not commonly called "fruits", such as bean pods, corn kernels, wheat grains, and tomatoes.[2][3]

Today you learned...

-TG

Highlighted the key portion for you. "Fruits are the means by which these plants disseminate seeds." They are not the seeds themselves. Don't know who wrote the last sentence, but it is simply wrong. A fruit is a starch-laden layer that surrounds the seed and provides organic matter for the seed to grow in after it rots.

I got 93% in second-year Botany. I'm not some idiot off the street.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Okay. And a corn kernel contains the seed and pericarp and all the other stuff of a fruit. In every biology and botany textbook I've had, grains are fruits.

The cool thing about wikipedia is they source stuff, so I can believe you or the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Plant Breeding and Related Subjects and Botany: An Introduction to Plant Biology

-TG

[subtleknifewield]

Okay. And a corn kernel contains the seed and pericarp and all the other stuff of a fruit. In every biology and botany textbook I've had, grains are fruits.

The cool thing about wikipedia is they source stuff, so I can believe you or the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Plant Breeding and Related Subjects and Botany: An Introduction to Plant Biology

-TG

Indeed, this.

Every kernel has the potential to grow a new stalk of corn due to the seed in it.

[Dukasaur]

Okay. And a corn kernel contains the seed and pericarp and all the other stuff of a fruit. In every biology and botany textbook I've had, grains are fruits.

The cool thing about wikipedia is they source stuff, so I can believe you or the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Plant Breeding and Related Subjects and Botany: An Introduction to Plant Biology

-TG

Indeed, this.

Every kernel has the potential to grow a new stalk of corn due to the seed in it.

Yeah, I think we all know what "seed" means. But a fruit is not a seed. A fruit is a container for seeds.

[subtleknifewield]

Okay. And a corn kernel contains the seed and pericarp and all the other stuff of a fruit. In every biology and botany textbook I've had, grains are fruits.

The cool thing about wikipedia is they source stuff, so I can believe you or the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Plant Breeding and Related Subjects and Botany: An Introduction to Plant Biology

-TG

Indeed, this.

Every kernel has the potential to grow a new stalk of corn due to the seed in it.

Yeah, I think we all know what "seed" means. But a fruit is not a seed. A fruit is a container for seeds.

Um, you realize that's not what I said, right?

The kernel is not the seed. It contains a seed. Just like you said, a container for the seed.

[notyou2]

Hear that Mrs WDK? A fruit is a container for seeds.

[subtleknifewield]

Hear that Mrs WDK? A fruit is a container for seeds.

Someone's mind is in the gutter XD

[waauw]

Hear that Mrs WDK? A fruit is a container for seeds.

Are testicles fruits then?

[Dukasaur]

Okay. And a corn kernel contains the seed and pericarp and all the other stuff of a fruit. In every biology and botany textbook I've had, grains are fruits.

The cool thing about wikipedia is they source stuff, so I can believe you or the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Plant Breeding and Related Subjects and Botany: An Introduction to Plant Biology

-TG

Indeed, this.

Every kernel has the potential to grow a new stalk of corn due to the seed in it.

Yeah, I think we all know what "seed" means. But a fruit is not a seed. A fruit is a container for seeds.

Um, you realize that's not what I said, right?

The kernel is not the seed. It contains a seed. Just like you said, a container for the seed.

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry TG3 et al.

[subtleknifewield]

No problem, I've misread others plenty of times, found out we were actually arguing over the exact same point of view. ow THAT is embarrassing. XD