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Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years!!

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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 am

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:Out of curiosity why was the second amendment first put into the constitution?

The theory was that the populace should be armed in order to be able to rise up against tyrants. Sounds reasonable, and I used to believe it.

Unfortunately, the theory doesn't work. Modern tyrants are not like their medieval counterparts. They check to make sure they have solid support when they enact tyrannical legislation, and generally speaking the majority of gun owners who should be rising up are in fact in support of the tyrant.

The theory was tested very early in American history, when Shays Rebellion flared up against the crony capitalism and regressive taxation policies of the Massachusetts government. Instead of spreading like wildfire through other overtaxed states as it should have, the Rebellion was soon put down by the U.S. government and its professional army. (Professional standing armies were recognised by the Founding Fathers as being the Achilles Heel of the rising-up militia theory, and the very first Article of the Constitution took measures to prevent standing armies. Of course, it was immediately subverted, with a revolving door of always-renewed "temporary" authorizations keeping a standing army going in perpetuity, precisely what the Constitution tried to prevent.)

Shortly after that, the Whiskey Rebellion met a similar fate, and in the two hundred and twenty-four years since, there has been no meaningful armed uprising against the Federal or any State government. Occasionally there is some local incident. I'm sure Phatscotty will pop up soon with his video of the Athens, Georgia uprising, but to me the most notable thing about the Athens rising is what a statistical anomaly it is. Of all the tens of thousands of corrupt mayors and corrupt sheriffs there are, only one has been removed by force. After Athens, the next time someone tried to remove a corrupt leader by force, at Wounded Knee, the federal government stepped in with deadly force and prevented it.

When Roosevelt confiscated the gold holdings of Americans, this was precisely the kind of tyrannical act that the Second Amendment was supposed to prevent, but in fact there was no meaningful resistance to it. No treasury agents were shot in the process of stealing gold. Many people complied willingly, others grumbled but complied, and still others took their concerns to court, but none actually rose up. If some had, they probably would have been hunted down.

When Bush used the 911 Reichstag Fire as an excuse to suspend habeas corpus, trial by jury, and other cherished protections of the Bill of Rights, this is precisely the kind of tyrannical act that the Second Amendment was supposed to prevent, but in fact there was no rising. On the contrary, there were many rallies of gun owners in support of Bush and reassuring him that he was more than welcome to stomp people's rights into the dirt.

After 224 years without any meaningful rebellion, America's ruling classes are pretty confident that they can always hoodwink the populace into supporting whatever tyrannical legislation is coming next. As a guarantor of rights, the Second Amendment is a bust.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby degaston on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:09 am

KoolBak wrote:[Greetings, friend] :D
Don't give a squirt of piss WHAT you expect, nor did I extol, laud, decry as fiction or any such thang, the statement he made. Simply posted it.

Research wasn't required; didn't claim him as my spokesman. Way to f*ck up an assessment jackass. :roll: :lol:

This gets to the core of what is wrong with the pro-gun side. Research isn't required, in fact it should be prevented. Facts don't matter. As long as you feel the truthiness in your heart, that's all that counts.

KoolBak wrote:He WAS awesome in concert, however, and is obviously a far more caring and better human being than you...
Yes - I can tell...
Rolling Stone wrote:Renegade right-winger Ted Nugent recently went on a vicious onstage rant in which he threatened the lives of Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, "Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary," he continued. "You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch." Nugent summed up his eloquent speech by screaming "freedom!"

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... z3nt07Z7Yl


KoolBak wrote:ps...from your own article (dumbass)... "Umpqua’s student handbook says firearms are prohibited on college property".
I don't expect much from you, but would it kill you to do a little research before you spread this drivel?.....later ;o)

Oregon law did not allow UCC to be a gun free zone, and there were people with guns on campus at the time of the shooting.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/02/3708410/good-guy-with-gun-was-on-ucc-campus-at-time-of-massacre/

Cheers! :D
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby warmonger1981 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:19 am

Duk said: When Bush used the 911 Reichstag Fire as an excuse to suspend habeas corpus, trial by jury, and other cherished protections of the Bill of Rights, this is precisely the kind of tyrannical act that the Second Amendment was supposed to prevent, but in fact there was no rising. On the contrary, there were many rallies of gun owners in support of Bush and reassuring him that he was more than welcome to stomp people's rights into the dirt.

After 224 years without any meaningful rebellion, America's ruling classes are pretty confident that they can always hoodwink the populace into supporting whatever tyrannical legislation is coming next. As a guarantor of rights, the Second Amendment is a bust.



Unfortunately this is the truth now. Everyone is too comfortable and uneducated to see what's going on. America's mostly a country of zombies. Fat and dumb. It's sad to see what was once a country of doers is now a country of followers. The Pied Piper is in full control. Will America ever figure out that as long as there is a situation or incident the government will pass laws to control said situation. Unlimited control of every aspect of a person's life is the ultimate goal of government.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:31 am

American society could learn from Chinese society's grassroots activism and the people's general disregard for laws they disagree with.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:37 am

ted nugent sounds like a right cunt.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:39 am

Isn't Ted Nugent the guy from Curb Your Enthusiasm who has the good sandwich named after him?
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby KoolBak on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:12 am

LOL.... yeah.... bad guy indeed. Aside from his stellar rock and roll career, he's the idiot that sports a lifelong fight against drug use and alcohol abuse.... influenced unknown amounts of teenagers positively, me included. Here's the part you really hate....a staunch republican, gun rights activist, nra advocate, hunter and all around American..... suck it ladies..... :lol:
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

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AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:29 am

in your defense, at least you like neil young.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:59 am

KoolBak wrote:LOL.... yeah.... bad guy indeed. Aside from his stellar rock and roll career, he's the idiot that sports a lifelong fight against drug use and alcohol abuse.... influenced unknown amounts of teenagers positively, me included. Here's the part you really hate....a staunch republican, gun rights activist, nra advocate, hunter and all around American..... suck it ladies..... :lol:


Alcohol is a drug.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby owenshooter on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:02 am

mrswdk wrote:American society could learn from Chinese society's grassroots activism and the people's general disregard for laws they disagree with.


yes... let's follow the chinese example of disregarding laws we don't believe in...



after all, it has led them to the worst pollution in the world and zero bees and having to pollinate trees and bushes and flowers BY FUCKING HAND!!!


now, back to guns and the second amendment... i loved duk's post... especially the portion about every time someone has tried to rise up, the federal gov has stepped in and squashed it... did i hear someone say wounded knee? yeah, watch this...

https://vimeo.com/77696574

and Peltier is still in prison!!!



the second amendment was meant for the masses to be able to stand up against injustice and tyranny by gov (foreign AND DOMESTIC)... when you do it, they either kill you or put you in prison for the rest of your life...-Jn
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:08 am

owenshooter wrote:
mrswdk wrote:American society could learn from Chinese society's grassroots activism and the people's general disregard for laws they disagree with.


yes... let's follow the chinese example of disregarding laws we don't believe in...



after all, it has led them to the worst pollution in the world and zero bees and having to pollinate trees and bushes and flowers BY FUCKING HAND!!!


Think you'll find most developed countries went through phases like that when they were still developing as well.

Nothing to see here.

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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:09 am

duka's post was indeed very good.

china is indeed a massive, festering, bee-less shithole.

sorry mrs.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:13 am

last time the peasants round here tried to do something about the latest massive chem-plant under construction near arable land they were dispersed with live ammunition. 5 killed, from memory.

long live the people's republic of bee-less-ness
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:21 am

Well if you will insist on moving to Inner Mongolia, rather than one of the proper parts of the country.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:22 am

khazalid wrote:duka's post was indeed very good.


That post was written by owen.

Clearly whenever people see vitriolic anti-China propaganda they just automatically think of Duk. Reassuring to know that other people have his number as well.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:50 pm

I just read the last three pages of this thread and now I feel like "patriotic" American stupidity has reduced my brain capacity.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby warmonger1981 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:46 pm

The reason America has guns is the same reason the American president is supplying guns to the so called Syrian rebels. To overthrow a tyrannical government.
Last edited by warmonger1981 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:56 pm

In a way these shootings are patriotic, are they not? Land of the free, etc., etc..
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:04 pm

Duk had a good post. I've said this before, but the notion that arms will protect against the might of the U.S. gov't is absurd. Yet, I fail to see an idea which will resolve the situation.

Personal arms have three possible purposes: 1) protection against gov't (which we can say is null), 2) self-defense, and 3) hunting. It's already estalished that we have registration and bans on automatic weapons, but if you seriously propose that we should ban semi-autos and handguns, you must also necessarily argue that you don't believe in self-defense.

Sure, you can make your cracks that Americans are fantasy-fueled cowards or whatever, and however unlikely the scenario, the right to self-defense must include firearms.

If a man attacks you for whatever reason, and you have no means of escape, you must resort to violence. Your chances of survival increase if you have a weapon. So here's the hypothetical-- the man is attacking you, and a gun is within your reach, are you not gonna use it because you're so anti-gun? Unless you can honestly answer no, you cannot argue for bans on personal firearms. Fighting back must include whatever means necessary, or else there is no right to self-defense. There is no grey area here, it's binary. Either you may protect yourself or you can't. It doesn't matter if the reality of owning a firearm will or won't help you, it is simply the nature of degree versus kind.

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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:50 am

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:if you seriously propose that we should ban semi-autos and handguns, you must also necessarily argue that you don't believe in self-defense.


wut

If a man attacks you for whatever reason, and you have no means of escape, you must resort to violence. Your chances of survival increase if you have a weapon.


Got one swinging from each of my shoulders.
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:45 am

yeah but....ATHENS!

j/k
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby ConfederateSS on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:39 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Duk said: When Bush used the 911 Reichstag Fire as an excuse to suspend habeas corpus, trial by jury, and other cherished protections of the Bill of Rights, this is precisely the kind of tyrannical act that the Second Amendment was supposed to prevent, but in fact there was no rising. On the contrary, there were many rallies of gun owners in support of Bush and reassuring him that he was more than welcome to stomp people's rights into the dirt.

After 224 years without any meaningful rebellion, America's ruling classes are pretty confident that they can always hoodwink the populace into supporting whatever tyrannical legislation is coming next. As a guarantor of rights, the Second Amendment is a bust.



Unfortunately this is the truth now. Everyone is too comfortable and uneducated to see what's going on. America's mostly a country of zombies. Fat and dumb. It's sad to see what was once a country of doers is now a country of followers. The Pied Piper is in full control. Will America ever figure out that as long as there is a situation or incident the government will pass laws to control said situation. Unlimited control of every aspect of a person's life is the ultimate goal of government.

----SEE AMERICA'S NEW NATIONAL ANTHEM ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:53 am

Why is it OK for the president to supply arms to former terrorist but law abiding citizen with a Constitution right to bear arms wrong?? Most of you people argument is like a hamsters on a wheel. Is it only a right when the government says so? Is it only OK when a government with a gun says its OK? So can anyone answer my questions??
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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:43 am

Love it or leave it, maybe?

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Re: Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years

Postby mrswdk on Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:42 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Why is it OK for the president to supply arms to former terrorist but law abiding citizen with a Constitution right to bear arms wrong?? Most of you people argument is like a hamsters on a wheel. Is it only a right when the government says so? Is it only OK when a government with a gun says its OK? So can anyone answer my questions??


And didn't the fructose in the yogurt making everyone subservient? The children are still important even if you are happy with your oligarchy.

THE END IS NIGH, PEOPLE.
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