Another Mass American Shooting(Oregon)...#994,in 3 years!!

[khazalid]

and whatever you do, don't get vaccinated.

[degaston]

Why is it OK for the president to supply arms to former terrorist but law abiding citizen with a Constitution right to bear arms wrong?? Most of you people argument is like a hamsters on a wheel. Is it only a right when the government says so? Is it only OK when a government with a gun says its OK? So can anyone answer my questions??

Why is it right to give chemotherapy drugs to someone with cancer, but not to everyone?
In each case, the damage caused by weapons/chemo drugs is considered to be less than that caused by losing a war/dying of cancer. I'm not trying to make any judgments about the validity of the war, or which side is right, but we are certainly not the only country supplying weapons.

If you seriously think either that the largest army in the world needs your help to fight off an enemy invading American soil, or that a bunch of wannabe warriors are going to prevent tyranny by fighting off the largest army in the world, then I'd suggest seeking professional help for that delusion.

As for having one for "personal protection", there are plenty of studies that show that having a gun in your home greatly increases the likelihood that you, or a family member, will be shot and killed. You can look it up if you like, but I'm sure the facts will not change your mind, because you're special and the laws of probability don't apply to you, and no one who thought they were a responsible gun owner ever made a mistake that resulted in someone's needless death.

But whatever... I know it's never going to change.

[degaston]

Love it or leave it, maybe?

Men with Small Penis Syndrome often overcompensate for their lack of manhood by making an outward show of manliness.
Red States Dominate Top Ten List Of ‘Small Penis States’

This guy must have an "innie".

[TA1LGUNN3R]

if you seriously propose that we should ban semi-autos and handguns, you must also necessarily argue that you don't believe in self-defense.

wut

If a man attacks you for whatever reason, and you have no means of escape, you must resort to violence. Your chances of survival increase if you have a weapon.

Got one swinging from each of my shoulders.

It's a logical conclusion. If you have the right to fight an assailant, you have the right to use whatever means necessary to do so. You can't stop an assailant and say "oh, hey don't attack me too hard, bro, I don't believe in guns and I can only fight back with my fists." How do you realistically defend against intent to kill?

Also, lawl at the second part. You're gonna fight off any attacker with just your fists like billy bad-ass Jet Li or something (and I thought you were a slender young woman)? And Europeans call Americans delusional...

-TG

[KoolBak]

[mrswdk]

if you seriously propose that we should ban semi-autos and handguns, you must also necessarily argue that you don't believe in self-defense.

wut

If a man attacks you for whatever reason, and you have no means of escape, you must resort to violence. Your chances of survival increase if you have a weapon.

Got one swinging from each of my shoulders.

It's a logical conclusion. If you have the right to fight an assailant, you have the right to use whatever means necessary to do so. You can't stop an assailant and say "oh, hey don't attack me too hard, bro, I don't believe in guns and I can only fight back with my fists." How do you realistically defend against intent to kill?

Also, lawl at the second part. You're gonna fight off any attacker with just your fists like billy bad-ass Jet Li or something (and I thought you were a slender young woman)? And Europeans call Americans delusional...

-TG

Yeah, right. Even in America if someone throws a punch at you and you shoot them dead then in most states, under most circumstances, you will end up in jail.

And in the event that someone actually comes at you trying to kill you, most likely by the time you've realized and are trying to go for your gun, they'll be close enough to stop you.

You live in America, gun capital of the world. How many people do you know who have ever used a gun to defend themselves?

[Phatscotty]

Name the 994 mass shootings in the last 3 years. I can name about 5

[degaston]

Name the 994 mass shootings in the last 3 years. I can name about 5

We’re now averaging more than one mass shooting per day in 2015

[Phatscotty]

Name the 994 mass shootings in the last 3 years. I can name about 5

We’re now averaging more than one mass shooting per day in 2015

wow, okay. Let's pick a random day and get the details of these shootings which didn't seem to make the news as far as I can tell. September 28th. What states did that happen in?

[Phatscotty]

Keeping things in context...

[mrswdk]

lol. If you factor out the big cities, where all the crime is, then crime rates drop. It's a statistical miracle!

If guns are the best way of defending oneself from danger, and American has the most guns, then how comes its homicide rate is 4-5 times the homicide rate of other developed countries like the UK, Germany or France, where no one has a gun to defend themselves?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Keeping things in context...

Do you want us to start discussing your healthcare system? Brits all think the NHS is terrible these days, but its leagues ahead of yours.

[Phatscotty]

lol. If you factor out the big cities, where all the crime is, then crime rates drop. It's a statistical miracle!

If guns are the best way of defending oneself from danger, and American has the most guns, then how comes its homicide rate is 4-5 times the homicide rate of other developed countries like the UK, Germany or France, where no one has a gun to defend themselves?

There are hundreds of big cities in America. The point wasn't removing big cities from the data, it was removing the four cities with the most gun control. The conclusion is in the places that are most like UK, Germany, France etc are the places that by far have the most homicides. The more a place becomes like the places you suggest, the bigger the problem becomes.

[mrswdk]

A quick Google search says that cities such as New York, LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Houston and Boston also have homicide rates 3/4/5 times higher than London, Berlin or Paris.

So why are American cities significantly more dangerous than European ones? How come all the guns don't make America safer?

[Phatscotty]

lol. If you factor out the big cities, where all the crime is, then crime rates drop. It's a statistical miracle!

If guns are the best way of defending oneself from danger, and American has the most guns, then how comes its homicide rate is 4-5 times the homicide rate of other developed countries like the UK, Germany or France, where no one has a gun to defend themselves?

There are hundreds of big cities in America. The point wasn't removing big cities from the data, it was removing the four cities with the most gun control. The conclusion is in the places that are most like UK, Germany, France etc are the places that by far have the most homicides.

A quick Google search says that cities such as New York, LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Houston and Boston also have homicide rates 3/4/5 times higher than London, Berlin or Paris.

Right. I'm not saying there is no problem or that it's not a big deal, but I am saying gun control/trying to be like Europe doesn't help and many times even makes the problem worse. There are many other factors such as culture, broken families, and especially born out of wedlock rates. Even lack of religion and morals plays a role.

[mrswdk]

So which factors are responsible for European cities having significantly lower murder rates than American ones?

And why do Americans with guns fail to protect themselves where Europeans without guns succeed?

[Phatscotty]

So which factors are responsible for European cities having significantly lower murder rates than American ones?

And why do Americans with guns fail to protect themselves where Europeans without guns succeed?

Who could possibly say with any certainty? There are many factors that vary one way or the other. How could we know which victims were armed or unarmed? There are plenty of examples where an American with a gun did protect themselves successfully, but of course not every successful survival is caught on video and certainly do not make news headlines.

[mrswdk]

So which factors are responsible for European cities having significantly lower murder rates than American ones?

And why do Americans with guns fail to protect themselves where Europeans without guns succeed?

Who could possibly say with any certainty? There are many factors that vary one way or the other. How could we know which victims were armed or unarmed? There are plenty of examples where an American with a gun did protect themselves successfully, but of course not every successful survival is caught on video and certainly do not make news headlines.

i.e. you saw security cam footage of a guy shooting a burglar, which means that guns are great and you don't have to bother thinking about why America is so much more dangerous than its peers despite having so many awesome guns to protect itself with

[Phatscotty]

So which factors are responsible for European cities having significantly lower murder rates than American ones?

And why do Americans with guns fail to protect themselves where Europeans without guns succeed?

Who could possibly say with any certainty? There are many factors that vary one way or the other. How could we know which victims were armed or unarmed? There are plenty of examples where an American with a gun did protect themselves successfully, but of course not every successful survival is caught on video and certainly do not make news headlines.

i.e. you saw security cam footage of a guy shooting a burglar, which means that guns are great and you don't have to bother thinking about why America is so much more dangerous than its peers despite having so many awesome guns to protect itself with

No, I did not state my point in the extreme, nor was an extreme assumption based on one anecdotal example.

I said there is plenty of evidence to overturn the statement that 'Americans with guns fail to protect themselves'. Americans with guns succeed in protecting themselves every single day. An American carrying a gun has even preventing a mass shooting from time to time, and more than once an American with a gun has stopped mass murderers cold in their tracks before they got to reload 1 of 6 more clips the murderer probably would have been able to fire off before an American police officer with a gun could even arrive at the scene.

[patches70]

wow, okay. Let's pick a random day and get the details of these shootings which didn't seem to make the news as far as I can tell. September 28th. What states did that happen in?

Meh, chances are that the mass shooting on sept 28 was in Chicago. People getting killed there every freaking day it seems. Chicago is the worst for mass shootings. Luckily, Chicago has the most strict gun laws in the country so that should start slowing the shootings there at some point...

[AndyDufresne]

wow, okay. Let's pick a random day and get the details of these shootings which didn't seem to make the news as far as I can tell. September 28th. What states did that happen in?

I like this worldview. "If I don't know about it, it probably didn't happen!"




--Andy

[Dukasaur]

wow, okay. Let's pick a random day and get the details of these shootings which didn't seem to make the news as far as I can tell. September 28th. What states did that happen in?

Meh, chances are that the mass shooting on sept 28 was in Chicago. People getting killed there every freaking day it seems. Chicago is the worst for mass shootings. Luckily, Chicago has the most strict gun laws in the country so that should start slowing the shootings there at some point...

Lucky guess, or did you google it?

Yeah, Chicago. Not a biggie as shootings go, but I'm sure at least 5 people will never be the same again.
http://fox6now.com/2015/09/28/11-month-old-baby-among-five-victims-in-shooting-on-chicagos-south-side/

Coming home from a family outing. My guess is that one member of the family pissed off some gangster, and the other four were probably completely innocent. Of course we'll never know. Nobody is in custody, and the cops have already moved on to more pressing business.

Yes, I know it's small potatoes compared to shit that goes on in Mexico or Brazil. Still, big or small, it's something that shouldn't be so routine that it passes by with this little comment.

[warmonger1981]

@ degaston


Your comparing chemo/America with cancer/Syria. Obviously your picking a side with your analogy. America has the power to kill who ever is deemed a cancer. Let's hope all 350 million Americans agree with 100% of the American political dichotomy otherwise the citizens will need exactly what the American president is supplying to the rebels.
Remember the American colonies beat the most militarily advanced country in the world. Obviously the technology is more advanced but its impossible to kill an idea. To your point about having a gun in a person's house and being shot. If a person drives a car they are more likely to be injured in a car accident. Oranges and apples buddy.

[warmonger1981]

Chicago will protect you.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... MZZCGvkuSA.


I thought no guns = no death by guns??????

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Yeah, right. Even in America if someone throws a punch at you and you shoot them dead then in most states, under most circumstances, you will end up in jail.

Responding with an inappropriate amount of force is still illegal and legislation pertaining to such is justified. If I get in a bar fight and break some guy's neck, I'm still guilty of manslaughter. In scenarios of self-defense, I'm not absolving defenders from culpability. The right to self-defense is a burden of responsibility.

And in the event that someone actually comes at you trying to kill you, most likely by the time you've realized and are trying to go for your gun, they'll be close enough to stop you.

That's a poor arguement. I said before that whether or not, in a realistic situation, if guns increase your chances, it's still your right to utilize such a measure. That's a choice you have to make as a gun owner. Will owning a gun (or any weapon) be more of a liability than it's worth? To ban guns because "the assailant will be close enough to stop you" is akin to telling a woman she shouldn't fight her rapist because he's twice her size and will likely just rape her anyway, regardless of her efforts.

You live in America, gun capital of the world. How many people do you know who have ever used a gun to defend themselves?

Without treading into thornheart territory, my mother, my father, and myself have all had cause to brandish a gun to deter assailants on separate occasions. I woke up one night at my first house after moving away from home to some jackass trying to shimmy my lock with a screwdriver. I opened the door on him with a handgun in hand, he saw, and ran off.

-TG