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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Woodruff on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:30 am

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Except that would be racial profiling.


It is doubtful that anyone would call it that.


I just did.


Let me try and respond like you do: You do not count as you are just an idiot.


What is it you keep whining about my ad hominems and not staying on topic? You're nothing but a fucking hypocrite.


This is exhibit 1 of why you should never argue with an idiot...they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Well done =D> =D> =D> .


Good job of blaming someone else for your own actions, hypocrite.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Woodruff on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:32 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, guys, for the record I don't think Phats is a Republican at all, whatever that has to do with this thread. He's a special kind of Conservative Libertarian who votes Republican occasionally to get the most out of each election. He's compromising to get the best results. Nothing wrong with that. My only quibble would be with his choices for candidate.


Libertarians of any real stripe don't favor the sorts of policies that Phatscotty favors.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby loutil on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:34 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Do you have any article or evidence to prove this.



Question. Who has the authority to give stand down orders when an embassy is being attacked? Doesn't the US have a special team specificly to respond to these type of situations ?

Clearly the President has the authority to give the stand down. There is an article in today Investor Business Daily that suggest it was Valerie Jarrett who actually gave the order on behalf of the President. She is the same adviser who 3 times convinced the President to NOT take out Bin Laden before they finally gave in and took him out. Yes, we did have a special tactical team that could have responded and possibly saved the life of the ambassador...
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/080713-666729-jarrett-gave-benghazi-stand-down-order.htm
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Woodruff on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:36 am

thegreekdog wrote:In any event, I jab at everyone - you, Phatscotty, BBS, Woodruff, Mets... I think the only regular I haven't jabbed at is Andy, but I'm sure that will come eventually.


It's really pretty difficult to find much to jab at Andy about. He's awfully nice, pretty consistently bland, and very rarely controversial.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby loutil on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:37 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
loutil wrote:This is exhibit 1 of why you should never argue with an idiot...they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Well done =D> =D> =D> .


This is how every thread on CC ends nowadays.

Back in the day it used to be "well lets agree to disagree old chap!"

Then it was "lets start a special forum that Atheists and Liberals aren't allowed into!"

Now it's "I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A COUNTER-POINT BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT"

Very well said...my short time here on the forum suggests it is only a few "outliers" that prevent honest debate and the exchange of ideas and information. I have to learn how to avoid my impulses and just ignore those few who only try and flame and otherwise troll these threads...
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Woodruff on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:40 am

loutil wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
loutil wrote:This is exhibit 1 of why you should never argue with an idiot...they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Well done =D> =D> =D> .


This is how every thread on CC ends nowadays.

Back in the day it used to be "well lets agree to disagree old chap!"

Then it was "lets start a special forum that Atheists and Liberals aren't allowed into!"

Now it's "I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A COUNTER-POINT BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT"

Very well said...my short time here on the forum suggests it is only a few "outliers" that prevent honest debate and the exchange of ideas and information. I have to learn how to avoid my impulses and just ignore those few who only try and flame and otherwise troll these threads...


Says the hypocrite who derailed the thread and still hasn't responded to the on-topic points I made.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Gillipig on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:17 am

Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
loutil wrote:This is exhibit 1 of why you should never argue with an idiot...they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Well done =D> =D> =D> .


This is how every thread on CC ends nowadays.

Back in the day it used to be "well lets agree to disagree old chap!"

Then it was "lets start a special forum that Atheists and Liberals aren't allowed into!"

Now it's "I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A COUNTER-POINT BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT"

Very well said...my short time here on the forum suggests it is only a few "outliers" that prevent honest debate and the exchange of ideas and information. I have to learn how to avoid my impulses and just ignore those few who only try and flame and otherwise troll these threads...


Says the hypocrite who derailed the thread and still hasn't responded to the on-topic points I made.

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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:49 pm

- You almost never provide data or statistics for any conclusions you make or thoughts you have which is why I rarely take anything you say seriously. You provide no evidence so you're not really a journalist, you're an editorialist.


warmonger1981 wrote:Do you have any article or evidence to prove this.



First of all, guys, I just want to say that I don't expect anyone to source everything that they say on this fora. I've done that, and a 100-word post ends up being pages long; it's too complex looking and it's also stupid looking. But you should use a source if you're really trying to show that someone is in error or if you're trying to prove a point. And you should also have a source if you're the OP or if anyone asks for proof. If you can't source a claim then you should be willing to call your information hearsay from the start.
Otherwise, I believe that this fora should stay as it is; a casual debate/discussion forum. Here above is a really great example of how this should work. Warmonger1981 made a statement, and I said that it wasn't correct. So he asks if I can source my counterclaim. This is how this forum should work. We don't have to hate each other, or call each other liars when someone makes a casual disagreeing remark.

warmonger1981 wrote:Do you have any article or evidence to prove this.

Question. Who has the authority to give stand down orders when an embassy is being attacked? Doesn't the US have a special team specifically to respond to these type of situations ?

Almost everything that I've said is on WIKI, but I didn't know that until I just googled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack


And this is everything that you need to know about the Obama plan to arm the FSA;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 37040.html

We'll arm and train a few hand-selected fighters at a time, mostly with small arms and anti-aircraft devices. These guys will fight against Assad and the extremists. As the FSA has gained a reputation for corruption due to the fact that hundreds of them sat around for months with nothing to do, it feels right that we should only arm a handful of them at a time until they gain the trust of Syria's people back.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 pm

thegreekdog wrote:Oh yeah? I got 24 letters from Syrian-Americans thanking me for my kind service. I also got a letter from the Israeli embassy thanking me for training their operatives. I received three letters from President Obama wishing me well in my endeavors to rewrite the tax code and I have 15 or so published articles on various middle east conflicts.

In any event, I jab at everyone - you, Phatscotty, BBS, Woodruff, Mets... I think the only regular I haven't jabbed at is Andy, but I'm sure that will come eventually. Here are my final thoughts and then I'll put you on foe:

- You clearly can't handle any criticism, whether a jab or a tightly written treatise (which I've provided you before on other issues)
- You almost never provide data or statistics for any conclusions you make or thoughts you have which is why I rarely take anything you say seriously. You provide no evidence so you're not really a journalist, you're an editorialist.
- I don't feel the need to defend my honor, especially to someone like you. I also do not feel the need to defend my career choices, especially to someone like you. The regulars here know that I'm intelligent and thoughtful, I try to be funny, and I give back to my local community in a number of ways.
- You seem very angry all the time.
- You have to ask yourself, I think, why no one else in these fora have a problem with me, but you do. Perhaps the problem is not me, but you.


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Hey look man, you put me on foe before, but couldn't leave me on it.
You don't understand what criticism is, and you're a fooking liar man. YOU SAID, bragged even, that you provoked me with a senseless "jab" and then you called me a liar. That's not called "criticism." If you're going to start drama, then you deserve all the bullshit that goes with it, man. I didn't start sh*t here, I was even dropping your name as someone who agreed with all of my points here, buddy. Don't provoke me and call me a liar then say that I'm the one with a problem. You've got a bug up your ass about me and you're a liar for not coming out and admitting it. I've given you every opportunity to address your issue.
But I ain't asking you to defend your career choices. You have to defend them to yourself, and I know that it's not easy. Every time that I've seen you talk about it on CC you start out embarrassed because you know how people look at that. What I was doing was drawing attention to the fact that I'm standing up for an unpopular opinion that I believe in, one that's not easy to go for given the Islamophobia of America right now. While I am doing this, you're taking the selfish and easy route all the way home getting paid to help corporations dodge taxes. You could have been someone, but you sold out. I ain't blaming you for doing it, but you don't get to ever question my integrity precisely because you sold out.

You ain't givin' back to CC. If you wanna go around provoking responses and then trolling all those people that you named off, as if you're innocent, lol man, you're part of what's wrong on CC. Here, you attack people and not ideas. I don't give a flying f*ck if an idea comes from you, Obama, or Nightstrike. I'm going to dissect the opinion, I'm not just going to call someone a liar and brag about it. I don't even paint people as Republican nitwits, Anarchist buffons, or Democratic hacks, because every idea warrants it's own consideration no matter who said it first. A sign of intelligence is being able to consider any idea, even if you don't agree with it. That's why I like having NS and Phatts here on CC so much.

Furthermore and finally, don't pretend that you don't know why you're stalkerin' me with pointless comments about my integrity. It all goes back to you defending Holocaust jokes, and saying that If I'm not ok with Holocaust jokes you'll stop with them so long as I stop insulting the Catholic Church's defense of child molesters. That boyhood Catholic Persecution training switched into gear, I could see it, and you've been dogging me ever since. I called you out for it before, thinking that you'd bitch and rant and get that sh*t out of your system, but instead you threatened to put me on foe and just went back to calling me a liar all the time. So here I went again, giving you a chance to take your balls out of your purse and man up and get it out. Make a personal note too, that Serbia put me on foe and I don't talk to him. I put BBS on foe and I don't talk to him. If people don't like me or if I don't like them then I'm not going to f*ck with them.
Stop playing the victim like I'm the one who has a problem with you. You bragged about insulting me while I never said a word to you. I was even referencing you as someone I agreed with in 50% of the threads I've participated in since last week. If you're gonna start some sh*t, then you deserve some sh*t.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:16 pm

The problem I have is the FSA will more than likely use these resources against the US in the future like Afghanistan did after the Afghan war. What interest does the US have in Syria anyways? Do we really think Russia will not get involved if the US imposes a no fly zone or invades? What about Israel attacking Syria. What about Hezbollah supplying arms and troops? This is much more than people think. My point is this is another stepping stone for corrupt US policies leading into a rabbit hole that has no clear end. The weapons went from Libya to Syria for a reason unclear to the American public. The CIA was running arms for what? Profit, freedom or ???????
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby rishaed on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:13 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Almost everything that I've said is on WIKI, but I didn't know that until I just googled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack


And this is everything that you need to know about the Obama plan to arm the FSA;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 37040.html

We'll arm and train a few hand-selected fighters at a time, mostly with small arms and anti-aircraft devices. These guys will fight against Assad and the extremists. As the FSA has gained a reputation for corruption due to the fact that hundreds of them sat around for months with nothing to do, it feels right that we should only arm a handful of them at a time until they gain the trust of Syria's people back.

The WSJ I can accept as a source, but even high school teachers do not accept Wikipedia as a source, and you may not use it on research papers to back your view no matter what you are writing about (ie. Even if I wrote on the composition of Boron and they had a picture of the periodic table).
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:28 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:The problem I have is the FSA will more than likely use these resources against the US in the future like Afghanistan did after the Afghan war.

It's extremely unlikely that these small arms will be used against the United States. The FSA is pro-USA, and pro-Social-Democracy (like European democracy). I do not understand why you think that this is like Afghanistan. In Afghanistan we armed Muslim Extremists to fight against a Soviet Occupation, then we meddled in their affairs after they earned their freedom. This was about 4,500 miles or so from Syria.
In Syria, we are arming a Democratic, non-sectarian, non-religious force against a tyrannical president and against the muslim extremists, like those from Afghanistan. The US can't really meddle here with any rebuilding either, because France, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and others are involved here. They all want a stable country on their borders, and they wont tolerate a war zone for very long. We also wont have any troops or anything in Syria. All we are doing is giving a few hundred fighters training and small arms, with a rocket launcher here and there.
In reality the Muslims in Syria have more in common with the Muslims of South Eastern Europe than they do with the Muslims of Afghanistan. And in Syria, we are arming the FSA, which is made up of Muslims of various ethnic groups, Christians, and others. No extremist is getting a single pistol from us. The FSA has no goals of becoming a political group, rather they want to bring about Democratic elections. In Afghanistan, the Taliban wanted to seize control of the government. So did and does al-Qaeda.

warmonger1981 wrote:What interest does the US have in Syria anyways?

Aside from the fact that they are fighting for freedom and democracy just the same way that we did in 1776, our interest is this;
Currently Hezbollah, Assad, al-Qaeda, and al-Nustra combined have more strength than the FSA. They don't have more fighters, just better weapons and positioning. So if we don't help the FSA, then the Muslim Extremists will take control of the Syrian government. Not only would Syria become an enemy state, but hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees would also be trapped inside Turkey. And that's not good for Turkey either.

And also, Saudi Arabia told us to do this, and they are kinda the boss of us.


warmonger1981 wrote:Do we really think Russia will not get involved if the US imposes a no fly zone or invades?

Russia cannot oppose Saudi Arabia, no country in the world can oppose Saudi Arabia. Even the US had to ask their permission to invade Iraq. I mean this quite literally and I'm not exaggerating when I say that Saudi Arabia controls almost all of the planet's oil supply. They can freeze-out any country from the world's oil-markets. The Saudis are actually the one's who decide how much oil any OPEC member nation is allowed to sell every month, to who, and they control the price as well.
Furthermore, Russia doesn't even border Syria. All they can do is yell loudly about this. They will continue to sell small arms to Assad, but American and Saudi aid will render their tank and jet sales useless. The FSA will then outnumber Assad's security forces and Hezbollah by approximately 2 to 1 in a gun fight.
Also, like Libya the no fly zone probably won't happen until it's too late to make a big difference. Once those Saudi manpads get to the FSA, Assad's jets will be grounded anyway.


warmonger1981 wrote:What about Hezbollah supplying arms and troops?

There's only around 4,500 Hezbollah in the area (approximately) but the FSA has around 100,000 members. The difference is that Hezbollah is supplied and armed while the FSA ditched their weapons when they quite the Syrian army.

warmonger1981 wrote: My point is this is another stepping stone for corrupt US policies leading into a rabbit hole that has no clear end.

They said that about Libya.
Assad will be ousted no matter what. The question is do you want a democratic country that is pro-America or a Sharia-Law state to replace him?

warmonger1981 wrote:The weapons went from Libya to Syria for a reason unclear to the American public. The CIA was running arms for what? Profit, freedom or ???????

Freedom. If those weapons were Libya's weapons, then we weren't selling them.
The reason was to arm the FSA against Muslim extremists. So that the Muslim Extremists won't take control of the country like they did in Afghanistan.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:34 pm

rishaed wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Almost everything that I've said is on WIKI, but I didn't know that until I just googled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack


And this is everything that you need to know about the Obama plan to arm the FSA;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 37040.html

We'll arm and train a few hand-selected fighters at a time, mostly with small arms and anti-aircraft devices. These guys will fight against Assad and the extremists. As the FSA has gained a reputation for corruption due to the fact that hundreds of them sat around for months with nothing to do, it feels right that we should only arm a handful of them at a time until they gain the trust of Syria's people back.

The WSJ I can accept as a source, but even high school teachers do not accept Wikipedia as a source, and you may not use it on research papers to back your view no matter what you are writing about (ie. Even if I wrote on the composition of Boron and they had a picture of the periodic table).


Oh you're that guy.

The two pages that I posted have 268 cited sources (links) between them. And they are both high-traffic pages. Would you rather that I posted all 268 sources instead of a single wiki page?

If I was writing a school report instead of casually speaking on a low-traffic internet gaming website I would be sure to copy/paste all 268 pages. But since I'm not, //whatever.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:37 pm

rishaed wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Almost everything that I've said is on WIKI, but I didn't know that until I just googled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack


And this is everything that you need to know about the Obama plan to arm the FSA;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 37040.html

We'll arm and train a few hand-selected fighters at a time, mostly with small arms and anti-aircraft devices. These guys will fight against Assad and the extremists. As the FSA has gained a reputation for corruption due to the fact that hundreds of them sat around for months with nothing to do, it feels right that we should only arm a handful of them at a time until they gain the trust of Syria's people back.

The WSJ I can accept as a source, but even high school teachers do not accept Wikipedia as a source, and you may not use it on research papers to back your view no matter what you are writing about (ie. Even if I wrote on the composition of Boron and they had a picture of the periodic table).

That's not a valid criticism.

I can understand wikipedia not being allowed as a source for scholarly work (and high school, while it may be a low level of scholarly, still counts as scholarly because it's supposed to be preparing you for more of the same.) For most purposes, however, it's a perfectly good source.

Essentially, wikipedia is the most peer-reviewed set of articles on the planet, far more so than many publications that call themselves peer-reviewed. Critics of wikipedia say, "any idiot can post and article," and that is true enough, but any non-idiot can edit that article, and in the long run the non-idiots are more patient than the idiots, and articles stabilize around a well-established consensus position that many smart people have reviewed.
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby rishaed on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:52 pm

Point taken. However i found some sources on the FSA that also point to brutality after 175ish to end. So what will change afterwards?
And I seriously don't think the US as is goes in for just "Freedom and Democracy....." Yeah just like Iraq, right...
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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:38 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, guys, for the record I don't think Phats is a Republican at all, whatever that has to do with this thread. He's a special kind of Conservative Libertarian who votes Republican occasionally to get the most out of each election. He's compromising to get the best results. Nothing wrong with that. My only quibble would be with his choices for candidate.



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Re: Benghazi - Massive Coverup

Postby Woodruff on Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:39 am

rishaed wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Almost everything that I've said is on WIKI, but I didn't know that until I just googled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack


And this is everything that you need to know about the Obama plan to arm the FSA;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 37040.html

We'll arm and train a few hand-selected fighters at a time, mostly with small arms and anti-aircraft devices. These guys will fight against Assad and the extremists. As the FSA has gained a reputation for corruption due to the fact that hundreds of them sat around for months with nothing to do, it feels right that we should only arm a handful of them at a time until they gain the trust of Syria's people back.

The WSJ I can accept as a source, but even high school teachers do not accept Wikipedia as a source, and you may not use it on research papers to back your view no matter what you are writing about (ie. Even if I wrote on the composition of Boron and they had a picture of the periodic table).


While high school teachers don't accept a Wikipedia article as a source itself, we certainly direct our students to Wikipedia as an outstanding source for FINDING good sources.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:11 am

Anyone actually watch the Benghazi hearing today?

Not one single email to or from Hillary Clinton to or from Ambassador Stevens?
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Re: Benghazi

Postby warmonger1981 on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:10 am

Almost 600 requests for more security. She didn't get one of those requests. She said it was Stevens responsibility for his security. She also knew it wasn't started by a YouTube movie. She should go to jail along with Susan Rice and anyone else who knew it wasn't from a movie. I think the guy who made that movie actually went to jail. He went to jail for a lie and has no freedom of speech.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby loutil on Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:25 am

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/she-knew-all-along-1445556778-lMyQjAxMTA1MzI1MzgyODMyWj

This story tells us all we need to know. Hard to believe the Democratic party wants to nominate her.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:56 am

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Re: Benghazi

Postby tzor on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:00 am

Hillary Clinton didn't have a computer on her office desk.

But she had a server in her barn.

Go figure.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Bernie Sanders on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:58 am

The Republicans last night after a 12 hour police interrogation, just gave Hillary Clinton a HUGE gift.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby tzor on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:55 am

Bernie Sanders wrote:The Republicans last night after a 12 hour police interrogation, just gave Hillary Clinton a HUGE gift.


Actually, I think they gave the F.B.I. a HUGE gift. :twisted:
Who will give VP Biden an even bigger gift.
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