US Warships challenge China's man made islands

[waauw]

I'm not missing the point at all. America is pick-and-choosing which parts of UNCLOS it follows and which it feels like ignoring. Obviously you have your bias towards the Philippines so you are perfectly happy for America to throw its weight around in aid of the Philippines' cause and who cares if they have a proper justification, but I'm just calling it how I see it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! I can't believe you, YOU, used the bias-argument china-boy. Didn't Confucius teach you to introspect once in a while?

1 - No I didn't. See my previous point 2.
2 - And for as long as they're disputed third parties should keep their beaks out and let the interested parties work towards resolving their disputes.

1. Many other countries consider the south-china sea to be international waters or their waters. But then again, why am I saying this? Clearly your mother dropped you on your head when you were little. Nothing will get through that nationalist pedophile head of yours.
2. I'm sorry, did anybody call 'no helpsies'? I don't think so. It's not because SE-asia is closer to China that it gives China the right to bully anyone around in the region. Don't act all innocent when the bullied kids go tell on you to the teacher.

[jimboston]

What is Freedom of Navigation?

The US Freedom of Navigation programme challenges what it deems to be "excessive claims" to the world's oceans and airspace

It was developed to promote international adherence to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, even though the US has not formally ratified the treaty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-34647651

In other words, the US is deliberately militarily provoking various Asian nations not because it has any kind of legitimate point to make but merely because it wants provoke. Good work.

Please replace the term "various Asian nations" with the word "China".

US is challenging China... and "various Asian nations" support this US action.

[jimboston]

The US can't pick and choose which parts of the law it likes and which parts of the law it wants to ignore.

Why not?
Says who?

[jimboston]

1 - China only denies military access to its claimed territorial waters. Sea traffic is still free to pass through

This is the first step. Attempt to prevent military access. Then later, prevent commercial access.

Course it's not about boats floating on the water anyway. It's (mostly) about resources under the seabed. Though it's quite likely China will extend its' goal to controlling fishing in these waters as well.

... of note China hasn't actually prevented any access. Those US ships are floating along through those falsely claimed waters fine.

2 - One of the pressing issues here is quite why it is any of the US's business to 'react' to a territorial dispute in SE Asia

Is this an actual sentence?

It's our business because we want it to be our business.

[jimboston]

Then I guess it's for this exact reason that the USSR was totally legit to start pouring missiles into Cuba, and America should have sat back and allowed the Soviet build up in the Caribbean as a nice political leveler.

In fact, given the US's continuing bullying stance towards Cuba, maybe it's time for Russia to send a fleet or two back to the Florida coastline.

The USA was able to prevent missiles in Cuba because it was. Not because it was right, not because it had the best argument... simply because it was.

... I also believe there was negotiation here, and USA later pulled missiles out of somewhere in Eastern Europe.

That is called politics.

[mrswdk]

@jimboston given that the underlying argument of quite a bit of what you're saying is 'might makes right', all your points about legitimacy or validity of claims are irrelevant. One day China will point a big missile at America and say 'fck off', and all will be right according to the Law of Jimboston.

[jimboston]

@jimboston given that the underlying argument of quite a bit of what you're saying is 'might makes right', all your points about legitimacy or validity of claims are irrelevant. One day China will point a big missile at America and say 'fck off', and all will be right according to the Law of Jimboston.

I'm not saying "might makes right".
I am saying "might makes reality".

Right is NOT EQUIVALENT to Reality.

It is useless to discuss who was "right" or "wrong" about things that happened over 50 years ago.
This type of argument doesn't drive the debate forward. It's moot. Irrelevant.

You also use examples of US or European "abuse of power" from 50, 100, 200 years ago... as a way to justify China's "abuse of power" today. It's poor arguing.

You can use examples of current US or European "abuse of power"... that's fine.

No major power is going to be completely "clean". Every major power abuses its' power to some degree. This is the nature of power and the nature of humanity. You like to preach to this forum, and in your retarded world view China is the ultimate angel, and the US is the ultimate devil.

The simple fact is that, although the USA has made mistakes in its' foreign policy; and has at times abused its' power both domestically and internationally; I content that NO OTHER MAJOR POWER in recorded history has ever held as much power as the USA has and has done "more good / less evil" with that power than the USA.

Did I type that right?

You can believe the USA has been a force for good... or a force for evil. We can debate that. I say, that any other country in a comparable position has either done less good; or more evil. Depending on how you want to look at things.

I will argue the only country to come close... maybe England in the 19th Century.

China is just coming of age as a major power. I don't trust them to keep up the "more good/less evil" quotient.

[mrswdk]

Either way you are arguing that the US should hold China to a standard which the US refuses to adhere to itself.

[jimboston]

Either way you are arguing that the US should hold China to a standard which the US refuses to adhere to itself.

Wrong.

I never stated or implied any such argument.

The USA (to my knowledge) does not go about building man-made islands in disputed territorial water ways.

That is what China is doing.

The reason China is doing this is to claim natural resources. Be that fossil fuels under the sea bed, or fishing rights, or more.

Please show me how I have my facts wrong here.

China is infringing on the rights of other countries, and on international rights of free access to international waters. The USA is the only power capable of challenging China in this matter, and it is acting in defense of her allies' interests and international interests. Should the US assume this role? I don't know. I do know no other country can, and the UN won't.

China claims these waters are there own, but that claim is disputed.

I'm sure the USA is not only acting for the benefit of its' allies. I say "international interests" as well... some USA interests overlap with international interests. I'm sure the US gov't is doing its' best cost-benefit analysis here... whether or not this turns out to be a smart play is debatable.

So the math...
China is definitely doing "bad" here.. if bad is defined as acting it her own interests to the detriment of others.
USA may be doing "good" or "bad". The jury is out on that.

[mrswdk]

Read back through your own posts you fucking cretin.

[waauw]

Then I guess it's for this exact reason that the USSR was totally legit to start pouring missiles into Cuba, and America should have sat back and allowed the Soviet build up in the Caribbean as a nice political leveler.

In fact, given the US's continuing bullying stance towards Cuba, maybe it's time for Russia to send a fleet or two back to the Florida coastline.

The USA was able to prevent missiles in Cuba because it was. Not because it was right, not because it had the best argument... simply because it was.

... I also believe there was negotiation here, and USA later pulled missiles out of somewhere in Eastern Europe.

That is called politics.

The country you're thinking of is Turkey.

[jimboston]

The country you're thinking of is Turkey.

Thank you.
Too lazy to look it up.

[GoranZ]

Crossing the Line?