Sanders will increase wealth of ordinary Americans

[jgordon1111]

Ok Tzor brass tacks then, what irrefutable proof do you have that Bernie Sanders is a communist? And by irrefutable I mean anything he has done that other politicians in America haven't already done or attempted?

First of all Bernie Sanders is a "Socialist" (a communist with a longer timeline) in the national sense (as opposed to an international socialist who wants to push everything up to a level above the national level) and "Democratic" in the sense that ... well going there is following a useless red herring.

Bernie Sanders will lead us to communism, because of the unstable nature of his socialist state. He wants to pay for his plans by attacking major corporations. I don't particularly like major corporations either but you wind up with a Fountainhead moment. Major corporations who love their tax breaks don't have to blindly follow the dictates of the president of the day; they can literally "go gault." They can effectively move their operations by shutting down their American operations. Lots of factories are already closing in the United States. Lots of factories are being created in other countries. Perhaps you can indave that Peg Legged Pirate called the Cayman Islands.



But are you going to invade the EU for companies that have moved to Ireland? What about Canada? The more you raise the corporate tax rate the more you are going to see those potential sources of jobs and revenue leave the country. They will go gault in a heartbeat and you will be left with less and less. Eventually you will have to start to nationalize things and then it will go to hell in a hand basket.

So the proof that Bernie's plans will lead to communism is a direct result of the way he wants to pay for it; through crushing corporate taxes. Actually, he should do the opposite, realize that corporate taxes are an illusion and instead eliminate them entirely. Allow companies to dump all their money into the United States tax free. I mean what is a corporation going to do with all that cash in the US? Buy things perhaps (that creates jobs)? Hire more employees (also creates more jobs)? More jobs = more people paying income taxes. And they are happier to boot. And happy people vote for the incumbent.

Well Tzor thank you for clarifying your reasoning on this.I remember growing up hearing there are only 2 sure things in life death and taxes, it seems somehow large corporations got a pass on the tax part and would gladly kill the country rather than pay, but all that aside how would trump keep corporations from leaving the country? I know what he has said how he would but really does anyone actually think his idea would work better than bernies?

[jgordon1111]

Don't get me wrong tzor, I still think you are confusing the definition of what our generation automatically associated the word socialist with, it seems to have been redefined today the millinials don't auto associate it, and that is why he is having the influence he has lately, which begs the question if he is why hasn't any of his opponents on either side called him out on it?

[tzor]

Well Tzor thank you for clarifying your reasoning on this.I remember growing up hearing there are only 2 sure things in life death and taxes, it seems somehow large corporations got a pass on the tax part and would gladly kill the country rather than pay, but all that aside how would trump keep corporations from leaving the country? I know what he has said how he would but really does anyone actually think his idea would work better than bernies?

Well since I think Trump borders on a Italian (read classical) Fascist, I don't know what he would do that would actually help the situation. An ideal president would turn the whole question around. Companies do not follow conservation laws; they are created and destroyed all the time. The question is how to get investment into the country and how to turn that investment into productive employment. The trick is to eliminate all the bullshit regulations and corporate taxes. Let corporations in the United States make all the money they want. What the hell can they do with that money? if they reinvest it this only is a good thing for the economy. If they take it as income then ... that is what the "income" tax is for. If they keep it in the bank then the bank invests it in the country, makes a profit and bankers pay income taxes from the income they make over it.

I've lived through the "outsourcing" era. Trust me when I say this hurt the companies more than it hurt the workers. Companies will do stupid things. Let hem. Instead allow for the creation of other companies who don't do stupid things and take over the markets of the ones who do stupid things. Never kill the goose that lays the golden egg, but never be in a situation where no more such geese can't be hatched on a moment's notice.

[tzor]

Don't get me wrong tzor, I still think you are confusing the definition of what our generation automatically associated the word socialist with, it seems to have been redefined today the millinials don't auto associate it, and that is why he is having the influence he has lately, which begs the question if he is why hasn't any of his opponents on either side called him out on it?

Some millenials don't know shit. A few are very well educated in organic fertilizer, but they are very few.

Still, even the greatest generation's parents were all fooled by FDR.

[Symmetry]

Don't get me wrong tzor, I still think you are confusing the definition of what our generation automatically associated the word socialist with, it seems to have been redefined today the millinials don't auto associate it, and that is why he is having the influence he has lately, which begs the question if he is why hasn't any of his opponents on either side called him out on it?

That's one hell off a sentence.

[Metsfanmax]

Don't get me wrong tzor, I still think you are confusing the definition of what our generation automatically associated the word socialist with, it seems to have been redefined today the millinials don't auto associate it, and that is why he is having the influence he has lately, which begs the question if he is why hasn't any of his opponents on either side called him out on it?

That's one hell off a sentence.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Symmetry]

Don't get me wrong tzor, I still think you are confusing the definition of what our generation automatically associated the word socialist with, it seems to have been redefined today the millinials don't auto associate it, and that is why he is having the influence he has lately, which begs the question if he is why hasn't any of his opponents on either side called him out on it?

That's one hell off a sentence.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

If "jgo" asks, the extra "f" was deliberate.

[hotfire]

Well Tzor thank you for clarifying your reasoning on this.I remember growing up hearing there are only 2 sure things in life death and taxes, it seems somehow large corporations got a pass on the tax part and would gladly kill the country rather than pay, but all that aside how would trump keep corporations from leaving the country? I know what he has said how he would but really does anyone actually think his idea would work better than bernies?

Companies do not follow conservation laws; they are created and destroyed all the time. The question is how to get investment into the country and how to turn that investment into productive employment. The trick is to eliminate all the bullshit regulations .

Let me guess..the clean air act and any environmental protection (that benefits you and everyone) are the bullshit regulations?

[warmonger1981]

What's your definition of clean??

[hotfire]

What's your definition of clean??

anything that has bathed recently using soap and shampoo

[Bernie Sanders]

Well Tzor thank you for clarifying your reasoning on this.I remember growing up hearing there are only 2 sure things in life death and taxes, it seems somehow large corporations got a pass on the tax part and would gladly kill the country rather than pay, but all that aside how would trump keep corporations from leaving the country? I know what he has said how he would but really does anyone actually think his idea would work better than bernies?

Well since I think Trump borders on a Italian (read classical) Fascist, I don't know what he would do that would actually help the situation. An ideal president would turn the whole question around. Companies do not follow conservation laws; they are created and destroyed all the time. The question is how to get investment into the country and how to turn that investment into productive employment. The trick is to eliminate all the bullshit regulations and corporate taxes. Let corporations in the United States make all the money they want. What the hell can they do with that money? if they reinvest it this only is a good thing for the economy. If they take it as income then ... that is what the "income" tax is for. If they keep it in the bank then the bank invests it in the country, makes a profit and bankers pay income taxes from the income they make over it.

I've lived through the "outsourcing" era. Trust me when I say this hurt the companies more than it hurt the workers. Companies will do stupid things. Let hem. Instead allow for the creation of other companies who don't do stupid things and take over the markets of the ones who do stupid things. Never kill the goose that lays the golden egg, but never be in a situation where no more such geese can't be hatched on a moment's notice.

This is called "trickle down economics"

Give tax breaks to the rich and everyone below them will benefit. Plus, the added benefit of reducing the Federal Debt.

Well, it didn't work during the Reagan administration and it didn't work in the Bush/Cheney Administration.

The rich got the GOLD and the working class got the SHAFT.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well Tzor thank you for clarifying your reasoning on this.I remember growing up hearing there are only 2 sure things in life death and taxes, it seems somehow large corporations got a pass on the tax part and would gladly kill the country rather than pay, but all that aside how would trump keep corporations from leaving the country? I know what he has said how he would but really does anyone actually think his idea would work better than bernies?

Companies do not follow conservation laws; they are created and destroyed all the time. The question is how to get investment into the country and how to turn that investment into productive employment. The trick is to eliminate all the bullshit regulations .

Let me guess..the clean air act and any environmental protection (that benefits you and everyone) are the bullshit regulations?

Include OSHA, the 40 work week, Social Security that kept millions of families out of extreme poverty, Veterans Administration, Medicare and a host of other programs that helps a majority of Americans.

We need to rip up the trade agreements and renegotiate them. The only ones who benefit from these trade agreements are the rich fat cats who don't give a shit about ordinary Americans.


The largest Banks need to be broken up and Wall Street fraudsters need to be thrown in jail. The rich fat cats have been paying fines for their willful law breaking that costs millions of Americans their homes, retirement plans and jobs. Send these greedy bastards to jail and you'll see a more lax abiding rich class. The rich hate jails, as they can't get a decent meal or take trips to nice exotic places to maintain their tans.

[GoranZ]

Bernie you fail...

[Bernie Sanders]

Troll, that's all you are.

[tzor]

The trick is to eliminate all the bullshit regulations .

Let me guess..the clean air act and any environmental protection (that benefits you and everyone) are the bullshit regulations?

Well it depends. Some regulations are very important. (At what level of government they should be implemented in is another question.) I'm certainly not advocating that we eliminate every regulation. Clearly solar panel manufacturing has moved from the US to China in part because the later has ignored some serious pollution effects in the creation of those panels. If the goal is to increase "employment" then dead people are clearly not employed. Being unemployed is clearly preferable to being dead (or stricken with a serious illness or injury).

But not all regulations are equivalent or absolute. Often the result of a regulation designed by people from one industry to another is a lot like trying to push a round peg into a square hole; it just doesn't fit right.

And not all "regulations" are so loving to the environment. Around my area we have something called a "tower law" that prohibits me from having a wing generator on my property if it was tall enough so that if it fell over it would land on my neighbor's property. (Never mind I have a lot of trees that meet that specification.)

We also had the New York City teacher's unions try to impose overtime laws on farm workers, who often have to adjust their work schedule to the weather.

Federal Regulations Cost U.S. $2 Trillion Per Year, Study Shows - Monday, 15 September 2014

According to the study’s analysis, an average U.S. company pays a stunning $10,000 per employee every year to comply with federal regulations alone, without including state and local rules. Even more alarming, the average U.S.-based manufacturer shells out almost double that number — about $20,000 every year for each employee. Focusing just on small manufacturers — businesses with less than 50 employees — paints an even more troubling picture. On average, they paid nearly $35,000 per year per employee just to comply with federal regulations.

This is important because it is the small manufacturers — businesses with less than 50 employees — are the biggest engines of employment growth. Those major corporations rarely go on major hiring sprees (some cyclical industries go on rehiring sprees, laying off people after their contracts are over and rehiring them when new contracts are made). Small ones do because they are either growing or they are dying. (Lots of small businesses fail, the ones that do not fail overcome the losses of the ones that do fail.)

[tzor]

This is called "trickle down economics"

Give tax breaks to the rich and everyone below them will benefit. Plus, the added benefit of reducing the Federal Debt.

This is not what I am advocating. The "rich" and the "major corporations" are not the drivers of the economy.

The middle class and small businesses are the drivers of the economy.

Well, it didn't work during the Reagan administration and it didn't work in the Bush/Cheney Administration.

It worked during the Reagan administration ... Remember that HW thought this was "Voodoo" economics and W follows in establishment footsteps.

The rich got the GOLD and the working class got the SHAFT.

And a lot of this happened in the past 7 years of the Obama administration, I should point out.

Look, if you are making a million dollars you can easily take ten percent of that to hire someone to find you loopholes in the tax law.

If you are making less than that ten percent that millionaire makes, you won't be able to hire that person.

Simplifying the tax code, simplifying regulations, levels the playing fields and prevents the rich or large corporations from using their wealth to abuse the system.

[GoranZ]

Troll, that's all you are.

LIAR THAT'S ALL YOU ARE

[Bernie Sanders]

Leave it to Corporations and their highly paid lobbyist to say it costs $10,000 in regulations per worker.

Clearly solar panel manufacturing has moved from the US to China in part because the later has ignored some serious pollution effects in the creation of those panels. If the goal is to increase "employment" then dead people are clearly not employed. Being unemployed is clearly preferable to being dead (or stricken with a serious illness or injury).


Tzor, you been drinking anti-freeze? Drink beer it's better for you, you get a buzz and you won't turn into a Corporate boot licker.


Unlike this guy, you don't need prodding.

[tzor]

Include OSHA, the 40 work week, Social Security that kept millions of families out of extreme poverty, Veterans Administration, Medicare and a host of other programs that helps a majority of Americans.

Bernie. I hate to break it to you. Social Security is not a "regulation." Just saying.

I would have to go over OSHA with a fine tooth comb. I can't think of any OSHA regulation that I dislike.

The 40 hour work week, as I have previously pointed out, doesn't work well in come extreme cases such as farmers and they are fortunately grandfathered in.

But for programs ... Social Security is basically a Ponzi scheme.
The Veterans Administration is a complete disgrace. If it wasn't a federal agency, two thirds of their top management would be unemployed and a good portion of them in jail for gross negligence.
Medicare is a constant disaster from the federal side of the program.

What is your definition of "helping?" If one penny out of every dollar goes to actually helping and the rest goes to make the helpers happy then this isn't really helping at all.

[GoranZ]

Will Bernie Sanders be known as gravedigger of United States?

[tzor]

Tzor, you been drinking anti-freeze?

No, I just checked. It was "Gold emblem sparkling berry pomegranate" ... 0 calories

Click image to enlarge.

[Bernie Sanders]

Social Security is NOT a ponzi scheme, where are you getting your information from? The Republican debate?

Believe it or not government has a better cost ratio than private enterprise in many fields.

Check the Social Security Administration costs:
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/admin.html

Medicare administration costs are lower than private insurance:
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

Greed always wins out and greed does not give a f*ck about Americans well being. The only thing greed cares about is money!

[GoranZ]

Social Security is NOT a ponzi scheme, where are you getting your information from? The Republican debate?

Believe it or not government has a better cost ratio than private enterprise in many fields.

Check the Social Security Administration costs:
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/admin.html

Medicare administration costs are lower than private insurance:
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

Greed always wins out and greed does not give a f*ck about Americans well being. The only thing greed cares about is money!