Obama commutes Chelsea Manning's sentence

[Symmetry]

Chelsea Manning: majority of prison sentence commuted by Barack Obama

Chelsea Manning, the US army soldier who became one of the most prominent whistleblowers in modern times when she exposed the nature of warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan, and who then went on to pay the price with a 35-year military prison sentence, is to be freed in May as a gift of outgoing president Barack Obama.

In the most audacious – and contentious – commutation decision to come from Obama yet, the sitting president used his constitutional power just three days before he leaves the White House to give Manning her freedom.

Manning, a transgender woman, will walk from a male military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, on 17 May, almost seven years to the day since she was arrested in a base outside Baghdad for offenses relating to the leaking of a vast trove of US state secrets to the website WikiLeaks.

Nancy Hollander, Manning’s lawyer, spoke to the Guardian before she had even had the chance to pass on to the soldier the news of her release. “Oh my God!” was Hollander’s instant response to the news which she had just heard from the White House counsel. “I cannot believe it – in 120 days she will be free and it will all be over. It’s incredible.”

[saxitoxin]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

[mrswdk]

I don't get it. Manning was arrested, tried and imprisoned while Obama was in power, and now years after Manning first got sent to prison Obama suddenly decides to just cancel the rest of the sentence a couple of days before he leaves office? Is Obama saying he fucked up by allowing the state to maliciously prosecute someone who should never have been sent to jail in the first place, or is he saying Manning should have gone to jail but now he's going to let Manning walk without serving hir entire sentence, just because funsies?

[warmonger1981]

I think Assange said if Manning was set free he would agree to be extradited to America.

[mrswdk]

That's funny. By the time Assange had actually left the embassy, gone to Sweden for his trial there, and then maybe been extradited to America (if America demanded it), he'd be getting extradited to an America run by someone who once said there should be the death penalty for doing what Wikileaks did.

[Dukasaur]

I don't get it. Manning was arrested, tried and imprisoned while Obama was in power, and now years after Manning first got sent to prison Obama suddenly decides to just cancel the rest of the sentence a couple of days before he leaves office? Is Obama saying he fucked up by allowing the state to maliciously prosecute someone who should never have been sent to jail in the first place, or is he saying Manning should have gone to jail but now he's going to let Manning walk without serving hir entire sentence, just because funsies?

I think he's always been sympathetic to her plight, but as long as there was a chance that it could hurt Hillary's chances in the election, he couldn't risk pissing off the war hawks by going easy on her. Now that Hillary's dead and buried, there's no longer any votes to worry about, so he can do the right thing.

[mrswdk]

I don't get it. Manning was arrested, tried and imprisoned while Obama was in power, and now years after Manning first got sent to prison Obama suddenly decides to just cancel the rest of the sentence a couple of days before he leaves office? Is Obama saying he fucked up by allowing the state to maliciously prosecute someone who should never have been sent to jail in the first place, or is he saying Manning should have gone to jail but now he's going to let Manning walk without serving hir entire sentence, just because funsies?

I think he's always been sympathetic to her plight, but as long as there was a chance that it could hurt Hillary's chances in the election, he couldn't risk pissing off the war hawks by going easy on her. Now that Hillary's dead and buried, there's no longer any votes to worry about, so he can do the right thing.

I mean it's been six years since Bradley Manning first got arrested. He's had a lot of time to step in if he really wanted to.

That's beside the point though. Like, if Obama is going to oversee Manning getting arrested, tried, found guilty, sentenced, and spending several years in prison, and then after all that decide the punishment was too much and just cancel the rest of it, then why does America even have judges? Clearly the entire criminal justice system dropped the ball by giving Manning a sentence that Obama knows was unfair just by looking at it. What's the point in letting those idiots decide things when Obama clearly knows better? Why not just run every case by the president and let him decide with a simple swing of his thumb?

[riskllama]

because that's not his job, obvs...

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I don't get it. Manning was arrested, tried and imprisoned while Obama was in power, and now years after Manning first got sent to prison Obama suddenly decides to just cancel the rest of the sentence a couple of days before he leaves office? Is Obama saying he fucked up by allowing the state to maliciously prosecute someone who should never have been sent to jail in the first place, or is he saying Manning should have gone to jail but now he's going to let Manning walk without serving hir entire sentence, just because funsies?

I think he's always been sympathetic to her plight, but as long as there was a chance that it could hurt Hillary's chances in the election, he couldn't risk pissing off the war hawks by going easy on her. Now that Hillary's dead and buried, there's no longer any votes to worry about, so he can do the right thing.

Do the right thing? Ha. Saxi is right. This comes only days after his approval of the wider data sharing spying of the intelligence agencies. He's 1) trying to put a publicity spin to preserve his legacy, and 2) forcing Trump into a zugzwang with Assange/Snowden.

Like, when asked about a pardon for Snowden, he said something about Snowden "fleeing" to Russia, when Snowden only got stuck in Russia after his passport was canceled (by the Obama administration) on his way out.

Obama doesn't give a shit about the right thing.

-TG

[mookiemcgee]

zugzwang... Good word!

[riskllama]

chazwozzer is better.

[Dukasaur]

Vermicious Knids

[Symmetry]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

[saxitoxin]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning is of a commutation; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

I've clarified in red for those who were confused.

[Symmetry]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning is of a commutation; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

I've clarified in red for those who were confused.

Good for you, Saxi. Why do you think Drake shoud be pardoned more than Manning's sentence should be commuted?

[saxitoxin]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning is of a commutation; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

I've clarified in red for those who were confused.

Good for you, Saxi. Why do you think Drake shoud be pardoned more than Manning's sentence should be committed?

1- Drake acted in the public good. Manning's action seem to have primarily been due to sexual angst.
2- Drake provided information that was selective and substantial. Manning's revelations were interesting, but mostly salacious and mischevious.
3- Drake was persecuted instead of prosecuted. Ten of the 11 charges against him were dropped for lack-of-evidence, but only after the Obama regime first bankrupted him and destroyed his life through malicious prosecution. Even the judge in the case eviscerated the government's actions. They finally got a low-level misdemeanor that carried community service to stick as a parting shot.

But Drake isn't a houshold name and Manning is. Not to say that Manning should or shouldn't have also had its sentence commuted, but Obama couldn't get the front-page of the New York Times if he pardoned Drake and he could by commuting Manning's sentence.

[riskllama]

stfu, chazwozzer...

[Symmetry]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning is of a commutation; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

I've clarified in red for those who were confused.

Good for you, Saxi. Why do you think Drake shoud be pardoned more than Manning's sentence should be committed?

1- Drake acted in the public good. Manning's action seem to have primarily been due to sexual angst.
2- Drake provided information that was selective and substantial. Manning's revelations were interesting, but mostly salacious and mischevious.
3- Drake was persecuted instead of prosecuted. Ten of the 11 charges against him were dropped for lack-of-evidence, but only after the Obama regime first bankrupted him and destroyed his life through malicious prosecution. Even the judge in the case eviscerated the government's actions. They finally got a low-level misdemeanor that carried community service to stick as a parting shot.

But Drake isn't a houshold name and Manning is. Not to say that Manning should or shouldn't have also had its sentence commuted, but Obama couldn't get the front-page of the New York Times if he pardoned Drake and he could by commuting Manning's sentence.

I would suggest that he wasn't interested in pardoning people who leaked classified information. Nor in getting headlines. More that he was interested in commuting an unfairly long sentence.

Pardoning her would have been a bigger issue. She's still considered guilty of her crime, just free now (well, soon). I still think you're muddling the concepts of commutation and pardoning here though.

[saxitoxin]

Unless he were to pardon Thomas Drake, this is just a publicity stunt. Drake is far more deserving of a pardon than Manning is of a commutation; Manning just happens to be more high-profile so a commutation can help repair Obama's civil rights legacy, as opposed to being a genuine act.

I think you might be misusing a commution as interchangeable with a pardon. Manning has not been pardoned. Her sentence has been commuted.

Thomas Drake's sentence sentence can't be commuted. He wasn't even jailed, and anyway, he served his probation already.

I've clarified in red for those who were confused.

Good for you, Saxi. Why do you think Drake shoud be pardoned more than Manning's sentence should be committed?

1- Drake acted in the public good. Manning's action seem to have primarily been due to sexual angst.
2- Drake provided information that was selective and substantial. Manning's revelations were interesting, but mostly salacious and mischevious.
3- Drake was persecuted instead of prosecuted. Ten of the 11 charges against him were dropped for lack-of-evidence, but only after the Obama regime first bankrupted him and destroyed his life through malicious prosecution. Even the judge in the case eviscerated the government's actions. They finally got a low-level misdemeanor that carried community service to stick as a parting shot.

But Drake isn't a houshold name and Manning is. Not to say that Manning should or shouldn't have also had its sentence commuted, but Obama couldn't get the front-page of the New York Times if he pardoned Drake and he could by commuting Manning's sentence.

I would suggest that he wasn't interested in pardoning people who leaked classified information. Nor in getting headlines. More that he was interested in commuting an unfairly long sentence.

Drake has never been covicted of leaking classified information.

I still think you're muddling the concepts of commutation and pardoning here though.

that's fine

[Symmetry]

So what do you want him to be pardoned for?

[riskllama]

2 weeks seems fair.

[Symmetry]

Just to be completely clear, Drake was convicted on one misdemeanor charge, and served a year of community service. I don't really understand why not giving him a full presidential pardon for that is comparable to commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence.

[saxitoxin]

Just to be completely clear, Drake was convicted on one misdemeanor charge, and served a year of community service. I don't really understand why not giving him a full presidential pardon for that is comparable to commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence.

Pardoning an unjailed person for one misdemeanor (Drake) is a lower threshold of action than commuting 28 years from a prison sentence (Manning).

So why didn't Drake score a pardon when Obama was doling out treats?

Because doing so wouldn't grab a headline.

[patches70]

Just to be completely clear, Drake was convicted on one misdemeanor charge, and served a year of community service. I don't really understand why not giving him a full presidential pardon for that is comparable to commuting Chelsea Manning's sentence.

Because, it would show tangible support for whistleblowing instead of just giving it lip service. Drake did everything right, he went through the proper whistleblowing channels and procedures and learned first hand that it was just lip service, the government won't tolerate whistleblowers. Corporate whistleblowers the government is just fine with, ecstatic even, but when someone spills the beans about the government's own misdeeds it's a whole other story.

By pardoning Drake it would show that Obama actually does support and believe in whistleblowing. Drake did the right thing and what he got for it was destitution, harassment, persecution and prosecution.

What's wrong sym, don't you support whistleblowing on illegal, immoral and unethical things that corporations, governments and institutions do? Don't you think that good people just trying to do the right thing should be supported instead of persecuted?
Why do you hate whistleblowers so much?


Manning on the other hand can't be considered a "whistleblower" because he never even attempted to go through the proper whistleblowing process. He just leaked a bunch of stuff because Manning has mental issues. Of course, why the Army lets someone with mental issues have access to classified materials is another debacle in and of itself.


Another interesting thing about this Manning business, Manning leaked 750K classified documents. They were diplomatic cables, military intelligence documents on Iraq and Afghanistan, videos and even the gun camera footage of two Reuters reporters getting killed in a mistaken friendly fire incident. Manning plead guilty and denied nothing.
Obama admits that Manning's leaks were damaging, but not damaging enough to warrant a 35 year sentence.

The scope and magnitude of Manning's intelligence leak dwarfs that of Podesta's emails, any reasonable person would say. At least in terms of of national security. However, lawmakers are raising hell about the Podesta emails even threatening acts of war against Russia.
If Manning's leaks aren't even worth a 35 year prison sentence, why is the Podesta email scandal worth war with Russia?

Someone explain that to me.

[Symmetry]

I think you too are mixing up a commutation with a pardon, Patches. If Obama wanted to condone whistleblowing, he could have pardoned Manning. A commutation of a sentence is not a pardon. It's leniency, true, but not a pardon.

I support some kind of whistleblowing, sure, and maybe Drake deserves a pardon, but I see that as a seperate issue from the Manning commutaion. I don't think Obama has been particularly easy on whistleblowers anyway.

Saxi started this by getting muddled on the difference between a pardon and a commutation. It's a confusion that seems to have spread. Now you're muddying the waters even further by suggesting that Russian intelligence hacking the DNC is somehow equivalent?