Atheism. Is there more to it than just mocking people?

by **GabonX** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:36 pm

Even if God doesn't exist we should still worship him for social cohesion.

Faith triumphs over facts.

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:05 pm

GabonX wrote:Faith triumphs over facts.

oof

by **Bigbullets** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:33 pm

GabonX wrote:Even if God doesn't exist we should still worship him for social cohesion.

Faith triumphs over facts.

Not sure I've seen anyone advance that argument before.

by **DoomYoshi** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:15 pm

Bigbullets wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Well, it certainly doesn't mean "sling mud and troll and call people names and pick fights and just be a generally unpleasant person".

You can use that one verse as an excuse for a lack of good behavior (although of course there are dozens of verses that suggest evangelism is a good thing). However, you can't use that verse to excuse poor behavior.

Either way, I asked two questions. The second was about the gospel. The first was about glorifying God. Even if you are not evangelizing you should be glorifying God. Where is that fruit in your life?

I'm all for evangelizing. Just haven't ever seen it effective on a message board. Have you?

God calls atheists fools. If they are fools, as the scripture declares, should we not expose such foolishness? And wouldn't exposing such foolishness bring glory to God?

You would be surprised at the amount of people on this site who I help understand issues of faith. People confess their sins to me, understand when I pray for them and ask me questions about the Bible and theology.

Here is some advice on how you should speak to atheists (or indeed, anyone):

Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. (Eph 4:29)
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. (Eph 5:4)
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. (Col 4:6)
The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things. (Prov 15:28)
(remind them...)To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. (Tit 3:2)
Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (1 Pet 3:9)
Even in your thoughts, do not curse the king, nor in your bedroom curse the rich, for a bird of the air will carry your voice, or some winged creature tell the matter. (Eccl 10:20)
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (1 Pet 3:15)

In case you think it isn't important, here are a few more verses for consideration.

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. (Jas 1:26)
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, (Mt 12:36)

The important thing is that not only atheists are fools. There can be foolish Christians also. Don't be one of them, and instead put your passion to work building up the people of God.

by **Bigbullets** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:13 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
You would be surprised at the amount of people on this site who I help understand issues of faith. People confess their sins to me, understand when I pray for them and ask me questions about the Bible and theology.

Here is some advice on how you should speak to atheists (or indeed, anyone):
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. (Eph 4:29)
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. (Eph 5:4)
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. (Col 4:6)
The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things. (Prov 15:28)
(remind them...)To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. (Tit 3:2)
Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (1 Pet 3:9)
Even in your thoughts, do not curse the king, nor in your bedroom curse the rich, for a bird of the air will carry your voice, or some winged creature tell the matter. (Eccl 10:20)
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (1 Pet 3:15)

In case you think it isn't important, here are a few more verses for consideration.
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. (Jas 1:26)
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, (Mt 12:36)

The important thing is that not only atheists are fools. There can be foolish Christians also. Don't be one of them, and instead put your passion to work building up the people of God.

You're right, I would be surprised. I shall go and scour this here board for all of your posts and see how it's done.

In my experience, folks such as yourself, are much more willing to rebuke a person of faith. Maybe you're not like that though. Maybe you take a stand for Christ on this site. I guess I shall find out.

by **Neoteny** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:54 pm

Baaaaaaaaarrrrrrrfffff

by **Bentelbow** on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:46 pm

Neoteny wrote:Baaaaaaaaarrrrrrrfffff

by **Symmetry** on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:36 pm

I always like William Blake's view of what a soul is- the only part of a person that is really unlimited- the imagination. Sounds trite nowadays, but he's worth a read if you can give him some time.

That said, DY has some good Biblical basis for talking to people of other faiths, but might have missed the main ones:

Have a bit of a sense of humour about it, and listen to them first.

As for the thread title, obviously referencing the King James Bible, remember that in royal courts at the time the position of fool was often the one role that could openly tell the truth to power through mockery. Sometimes people can be so self-righteous that they need someone to whisper in their ear that they are not as holy divine as others tell them.

by **jonesthecurl** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:01 am

Someone wrote a story about selling your soul to the devil. Can't remember who, maybe Robert Sheckley or Harlan Ellison. The idea was that the guy was on Death Row, and the Devil said he would give him an infinite appetite, so that his "last meal" would go on forever. All that was required was the soul, which Satan explained was just your imagination. The perp agreed. Unfortunately, he had been interrupted while listing what he wanted for his last meal, and had only got as far as "baked beans". He couldn't think of anything to add to the list once his soul was sold, so he got to eat baked beans for eternity.

by **riskllama** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:26 am

Bigbullets wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
You would be surprised at the amount of people on this site who I help understand issues of faith. People confess their sins to me, understand when I pray for them and ask me questions about the Bible and theology.

Here is some advice on how you should speak to atheists (or indeed, anyone):
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. (Eph 4:29)
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. (Eph 5:4)
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. (Col 4:6)
The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things. (Prov 15:28)
(remind them...)To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. (Tit 3:2)
Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (1 Pet 3:9)
Even in your thoughts, do not curse the king, nor in your bedroom curse the rich, for a bird of the air will carry your voice, or some winged creature tell the matter. (Eccl 10:20)
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (1 Pet 3:15)

In case you think it isn't important, here are a few more verses for consideration.
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. (Jas 1:26)
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, (Mt 12:36)

The important thing is that not only atheists are fools. There can be foolish Christians also. Don't be one of them, and instead put your passion to work building up the people of God.

You're right, I would be surprised. I shall go and scour this here board for all of your posts and see how it's done.

In my experience, folks such as yourself, are much more willing to rebuke a person of faith. Maybe you're not like that though. Maybe you take a stand for Christ on this site. I guess I shall find out.

i can stand as witness for DY on this, as i have seen it with my peepers - unfortunately, it's in a private user group...

by **betiko** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:21 am

not going to bother reading the full 4 pages, and will pickup from here, but to answer the OP....

It's not about mocking people, it's about having a problem with people exposing their faith in their own beliefs. Just as I don't apreciate people waving their dick at me. That's your own personal beliefs which I don't care for; on which we are not going to agree if we start talking about them, and I feel like publically thanking, praising, naming, praying etc god in public is highly inappropriate.
I have absolutely no problem if you do that within a community sharing your beliefs; I have absolutely no problem if you have those beliefs as long as you don't expose them to people who never asked for it.
There is one thing that is a big no-no: teaching BS in school. If you think that noe's ark was a real thing or that the earth is flat, you believe in creationism and other crazy zealot stuff: those things don't have a place in public schools.

by **warmonger1981** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:08 am

Can anybody explain in detail how hard matter can become a living organism. Step by step please. Unfortunately schools teach evolution without being able to prove it. The same thing for religion. Atheism and religion are Faith. Not fact. And if you're in a public place people have the right to pray just as I have a right to take your picture. If you don't like praying or get your picture taken stay home.

by **2dimes** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:16 am

jonesthecurl wrote:Someone wrote a story about selling your soul to the devil. Can't remember who, maybe Robert Sheckley or Harlan Ellison. The idea was that the guy was on Death Row, and the Devil said he would give him an infinite appetite, so that his "last meal" would go on forever. All that was required was the soul, which Satan explained was just your imagination. The perp agreed. Unfortunately, he had been interrupted while listing what he wanted for his last meal, and had only got as far as "baked beans". He couldn't think of anything to add to the list once his soul was sold, so he got to eat baked beans for eternity.

Is that the story that was parodied on The Simpsons? When Homer gets to hell he breaks the devil's will by wanting more doughnuts no matter how many he is forced to eat.

Edit: Ok, I just found a clip and watched it again. I'm guessing even though the story was not fully covered, I suspect it was the inspiration for the concept.

Also I read a quote recently that seems relevant to this thread.

You don't have a soul. You are a soul.

by **betiko** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:29 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Can anybody explain in detail how hard matter can become a living organism. Step by step please. Unfortunately schools teach evolution without being able to prove it. The same thing for religion. Atheism and religion are Faith. Not fact. And if you're in a public place people have the right to pray just as I have a right to take your picture. If you don't like praying or get your picture taken stay home.

let me explain you something..... science doesn't pretend to understand how everything works... it's a constant work in progress. Scientists try to figure out things that they don't understand and there isn't an answer to everything, it's all baby steps.
Something human has had the tendency to do throughout time is to think this way; "I don't understand this, so as I don't understand it, it means that it must be the work of a greater power"

I don't know how you can look at me with a straight face, pull the greater power argument and think you've got it all figured out.

I know it's not a nice feeling, but we don't know everything. We can only try to figure things out until we get scientific outbreaks.

The dangerous people are the ones that think they know it all and religion gives an answer to everything. It really sounds like you're 8 years old and that you're protecting yourself from monsters under your magic blanket.

by **Neoteny** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:32 pm

But can you tell me when rocks started having sex?

by **jonesthecurl** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm

betiko wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:Can anybody explain in detail how hard matter can become a living organism. Step by step please. Unfortunately schools teach evolution without being able to prove it. The same thing for religion. Atheism and religion are Faith. Not fact. And if you're in a public place people have the right to pray just as I have a right to take your picture. If you don't like praying or get your picture taken stay home.

let me explain you something..... science doesn't pretend to understand how everything works... it's a constant work in progress. Scientists try to figure out things that they don't understand and there isn't an answer to everything, it's all baby steps.
Something human has had the tendency to do throughout time is to think this way; "I don't understand this, so as I don't understand it, it means that it must be the work of a greater power"

I don't know how you can look at me with a straight face, pull the greater power argument and think you've got it all figured out.

I know it's not a nice feeling, but we don't know everything. We can only try to figure things out until we get scientific outbreaks.

The dangerous people are the ones that think they know it all and religion gives an answer to everything. It really sounds like you're 8 years old and that you're protecting yourself from monsters under your magic blanket.

See, now that's mocking.

by **warmonger1981** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:39 pm

let me explain you something..... religion doesn't pretend to understand how everything works... religion is a constant work in progress. Some religions try to figure out things that they don't understand and there isn't an answer to everything, it's all baby steps.
Something human has had the tendency to do throughout time is to think this way; "I don't understand this, so as I don't understand it, it means that it must be the work of a greater power" Using mans understanding to explain Gods laws through the scientific method.

Is it a possibility that science can explain God with baby steps? I'm not sitting here claiming to know everything. I believe that God created this. But I believe this without truly understanding God. You believe this is all created out of random energy. Without understanding where that energy came from it seems that you are trying to present a final conclusion without understanding the premise. And yes I understand it is possible to have Clues to lead you back to the source. So we are both in the same boat with different ideologies. You believe one thing and I believe another. Either way we both know that we exist. Or at least we know it until we're dead.

by **spurgistan** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:49 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:let me explain you something..... religion doesn't pretend to understand how everything works... religion is a constant work in progress. Some religions try to figure out things that they don't understand and there isn't an answer to everything, it's all baby steps.
Something human has had the tendency to do throughout time is to think this way; "I don't understand this, so as I don't understand it, it means that it must be the work of a greater power" Using mans understanding to explain Gods laws through the scientific method.

Is it a possibility that science can explain God with baby steps? I'm not sitting here claiming to know everything. I believe that God created this. But I believe this without truly understanding God. You believe this is all created out of random energy. Without understanding where that energy came from it seems that you are trying to present a final conclusion without understanding the premise. And yes I understand it is possible to have Clues to lead you back to the source. So we are both in the same boat with different ideologies. You believe one thing and I believe another. Either way we both know that we exist. Or at least we know it until we're dead.

Having read the Bible, and by extension an odd translation of the Torah.. isn't the first part the literal way stuff got made?
And, despite considering myself a fan of the Jesus, it is entirely possible that in the infinite supply of worlds that one (or a similarly infinite number) could have had the freak accidents of creating life that eventually became complicated life forms and then humans and then whatever comes next (my money's on superintelligent cats)

by **Neoteny** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:52 pm

Could someone please post pictures of rocks having sex? I'm so fucking lonely...

by **jonesthecurl** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:47 pm

Oh, go date a geological stratus.

by **Neoteny** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:52 pm

I'm just looking for the gneiss schist.

by **armati** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:22 pm

I didnt see anyone mention the Sumerians or the Anunnaki, not even the book of Enoch.

How come when religion is discussed nobody mentions those cuneiform tablets, I would think they are getting hard to ignore.

by **warmonger1981** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:52 pm

What is really interesting is that when people speak of religion they always try to demonize Christianity first. As if there is no other religions. Here's a little food for thought.

=

=

by **Neoteny** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:33 pm

People like Dawkins and Harris, the infamous New Atheists, are constantly harping on Islam these days.

I think we should talk about tectonic action, and how that relates to creation and evolution. Just massive chunks of rock fucking grinding against each other and quivering in desperate anticipation.

by **Dukasaur** on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:42 pm

armati wrote:I didnt see anyone mention the Sumerians or the Anunnaki, not even the book of Enoch.

How come when religion is discussed nobody mentions those cuneiform tablets, I would think they are getting hard to ignore.

No more so than any other religious nonsense. Myths don't become more true if they're engraved on a tablet than if they're written on paper.