[OFFICIAL] Charle's Fun Mafia - "Game On" Day 2

[chanakam2020]

Rag's play is exactly how I would play it as scum - until recently at least. It's very likely both visited Halrob and it's indeed 1 scum 1 town and realistically we should eliminate outside of it as the serial killer can go for both slots, aiming to hif mafia.

Wait.
So you did not know (Before Sonics acceptance of visiting Halrob) exactly the number of players and who visited Halrob ?
But you only knew someone visited him & that could be single player or multiple players ?
Am I interpreting your above sentence correctly ?
.

I did know exactly that Sonic visited Halrob but decided to reveal my info in a slow manner to see how Sonic and Rag would respond. For me it was never a choice not to reveal since I never thought I'd survive another day and Halrob had at that point said he was roleblocked. If he wasn't roleblocked, of course I wouldnt have revealed my information.

So instead of saying it all in one go, I decided to also include Ragian to see how they would react, knowing that they probably both knew which of the two was tracked. When Ragian got all cagey about it I thought well maybe Rag is the roleblocker, but all I'm sure about now is that there's 1 between Sonic and Rag.

Also Loose, unless you are 100% red-check sure that I am a mafia (which I am not), it's never good to kill in the claims today. If scum has a kills + roleblock, serial killer has a roleblock... you want the most power roles alive, for the best chance of not being completely fucked. This is also a major reason why I dont want to vote in Ragian/Sonic today. Let the serial killer or scum resolve that pairing

You claimed your role as tracker.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tracker
A Tracker is an investigative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed).
.
Tracker can track only one players at a night.
So You did Track Sonic as you claimed. & since you cannot track more than 1 player you obviously did not track Ragian
.
Then Ragian came to your radar out of all other 11 players ?
Explain ?
.

[Loose Canon]

Correct question chana

[halrob64]

very impressive Chanakam.

[SoN!c]

Okay Loose ive been thinking on a scum EW possibility. And yes its a very good question how he got Ragian right on pure luck as he now seems to claim. More: Town EW now does not even seem to have a follow up plan. That’s either very careless town PR play or it was scum seeding a mislynch all along. Because the story that he just got lucky by mixing in Rag' just does not fly. That’s like saying “I saw Bigfoot” but im refusing to show the blurry photo. And after getting extremely lucky on catching a Big Foot Ragian wearing a tin foil hat on camera by pure luck ...with Ragian admitting -after a very long and difficult struggle -he indeed did what EW "just bluf guessed by pure luck" he does not want the photo being flipped?

Because after all this EW just advocates a "no lynch"?? Where is or what was the town plan EW had here?

---

But a maffia watcher would know exactly who visited Halrob.

So i have to wonder and ask EW: would a mafia watcher not explain everything better, in a very simple and easy way? Would it not be brilliant if SK kills me tonight so you - as mafia watcher knows his identity - and town lynches Ragian for it in the morning? Mafia mopping up. Hmmm?

[Extreme Ways]

Rag's play is exactly how I would play it as scum - until recently at least. It's very likely both visited Halrob and it's indeed 1 scum 1 town and realistically we should eliminate outside of it as the serial killer can go for both slots, aiming to hif mafia.

Wait.
So you did not know (Before Sonics acceptance of visiting Halrob) exactly the number of players and who visited Halrob ?
But you only knew someone visited him & that could be single player or multiple players ?
Am I interpreting your above sentence correctly ?
.

I did know exactly that Sonic visited Halrob but decided to reveal my info in a slow manner to see how Sonic and Rag would respond. For me it was never a choice not to reveal since I never thought I'd survive another day and Halrob had at that point said he was roleblocked. If he wasn't roleblocked, of course I wouldnt have revealed my information.

So instead of saying it all in one go, I decided to also include Ragian to see how they would react, knowing that they probably both knew which of the two was tracked. When Ragian got all cagey about it I thought well maybe Rag is the roleblocker, but all I'm sure about now is that there's 1 between Sonic and Rag.

Also Loose, unless you are 100% red-check sure that I am a mafia (which I am not), it's never good to kill in the claims today. If scum has a kills + roleblock, serial killer has a roleblock... you want the most power roles alive, for the best chance of not being completely fucked. This is also a major reason why I dont want to vote in Ragian/Sonic today. Let the serial killer or scum resolve that pairing

You claimed your role as tracker.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tracker
A Tracker is an investigative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed).
.
Tracker can track only one players at a night.
So You did Track Sonic as you claimed. & since you cannot track more than 1 player you obviously did not track Ragian
.
Then Ragian came to your radar out of all other 11 players ?
Explain ?
.

Look Chana I have explained what I did and what my info is like 3 times. I did not track Ragian, I have said so before. I chose to be vague initially to get a feel for the situation. The fact that Rag seems to also be a power role is pure luck.

@Sonic I am not advocating a no lynch, I am advocating a kingm lynch and to not lynch in the three of us.

A Town Watcher would also know exactly who visited Halrob. A Mafia Tracker would know exactly what I know. The role I claim and the info I have can come from both alignment, I am aware, but how I am playing around it is something that can only come from one alignment.

[Extreme Ways]

Either town is imploding or my initial readlist has been very wrong.

[SoN!c]

Yes i know your voting Kingm but its the "no lynch" on Ragian what baffles me.

If Rag is not lynched today im very sure you know all to well that if Ragian is mafia then the mafia won't NK one of their own...
And in a 50/50 set up me or Rags mafia can't NK the other possibilty either because the flip would condem their member.

So im 100% safe against a NK by maffia..

But im wearing a big red painted cross mark for the SK. I will be top target for SK and if your mafia watcher all you need to do is watch me tonight. Im sure you know.

[SoN!c]

And the funny part is: Rag does not even have to be maffia. All that is needed is just that the SK believes it.

[Extreme Ways]

Yes i know your voting Kingm but its the "no lynch" on Ragian what baffles me.

If Rag is not lynched today im very sure you know all to well that if Ragian is mafia then the mafia won't NK one of their own...
And in a 50/50 set up me or Rags mafia can't NK the other possibilty either because the flip would condem their member.

So im 100% safe against a NK by maffia..

But im wearing a big red painted cross mark for the SK. I will be top target for SK and if your mafia watcher all you need to do is watch me tonight. Im sure you know.

If you are wolf/town or town/wolf and one of you gets killed by the sk, we lynch the other. I'd much rather have a certain shot than a guess, especially when voting the real claim is detrimental for the other claims we have.

If you are not wolf/town then I do not see the issue in lynching outside of it. If SK kills wrong (that is, the doc) we have still expedited some of the responsibility to the sk. I dont trust the sk to follow up with optimal gameplay (which is to kill the outed mafia if we lynch wrong between you two). Sk might even disagree about optimal gameplay.

What made everyone unvote from kingm?

[chanakam2020]

Look Chana I have explained what I did and what my info is like 3 times. I did not track Ragian, I have said so before. I chose to be vague initially to get a feel for the situation. The fact that Rag seems to also be a power role is pure luck.

But in D-1 you said this

I don't like to hide behind other's assessments. It seems like dereliction of responsibility. As if you already know halrob's alignment, and you're already distancing yourself...

The bolded is either catered exactly towards pocketing me, or Rag is just town?

Expresses the same sentiment I had, just now targeted as just 1 player.

I am also voting Halrob in spirit but will not put him on L-1.

Ahm...what does that mean? Pocketing you...

You have me in your pocket, I townread you.

Pocketing as a term is mostly used as describing a mafia appealing to someone trying to get townread by that person. You posting the same thoughts I had but in slightly different form makes me townread you, because I had a similar process myself. But you are also a good enough player that in theory you could post it exactly because I had already voiced similar sentiments, to make me townread you.

I'm not exactly buying the cop claim but I'll wait to see if someone counterclaims.

Follow the cop - dont think I've played it in the traditional sense but I dont like the strategy as either alignment because it dumbs the game down a lot. It's a good strategy as far as I know.

In D-1 you saying you townread Ragian. But tagged pocketing also as a risk.
So I do not feel your attemtp of baiting on Ragin is not pure random and pure luck.
.
1. If you townread Ragian on D-1 then why threw a bait on Ragian on D-2 rathar than on some one else you did not townread?
2. If you was thinking Ragian pocketing then what exact things Ragian said on D-1 made you think Ragian is pocketing ?

[hjelp]

before all join Loose to lynch EW then tink about -

- target-kill Son!c the Town-Doc
- pushes to be lynched/killed.
- vote to lynch Ragian but later changes.
- EW Mafia knows other Mafias.

If EW is mafia then probably not wants to be lynched.
If EW is Town-traitor then probably wants to be lynched.

If we lynch EW this turn and it's EW the Town-traitor - then it's possible that during n2 there will be three Townies killed.
Town & SK & Mafia kill three Townies.

A Dead Traitor wins if Mafia win.

[Loose Canon]

Hjelp, I must confess I'm not familiar with how a town t raitor role works,, but I would think they wouldn't get to attend mafia meetings?

If so extreme would be a bad fit for town traitor because part of case against him is he knew sonic visited Halrob, and another part is somehow knew rag had or was going to claim town protective role.

You are right to have been airing things that are on your mind, if they don't get discussed through, sometimes you will get reassurance, sometimes others will see things they hadn't considered and so they will need to reassess.

[SoN!c]

Yes that is exactly what we need to do. Keep looking at all angles and make the most out of D2 with calm open-mindness and not rushing things. And to have more of the silent players popping in here. They could be mafiamember (or the SK), just lurking in the shadow watching townies argue.. Anyone coasting that hard while we’re tearing chunks out of each other is either a town problem because "Tentative null" (until they show more) or scummy as hell the longer they lurk. It’s mid Day 2 and a crucial day,, so anyone who hasn’t put in real effort yet: now is the time or expect to be on thin ice either way..

Loose is considered town by all, he is also considering multiple possibilities, not single-minded locking into (one) narrative. That's the posture we want. He warned about EW when nobody wanted to believe it, but looks like he got it right on his hunch. The hunch that EW now needs to explain as "pure luck on Ragian". ..What are the odds with 11 alive and so many possible roles out there? So that was one good rusty nail he noticed in that silver EW platter when the rest of us did not.

[Loose Canon]

Yep agree with all that.

Here, Charle would you like to borrow the nipple twisters I was awarded by Rags. They are top of the range electric ones with multiple settings including my favourite - random.
But as you won't be familiar with such items I've preset them to MAX for you.

[hjelp]

Hjelp, I must confess I'm not familiar with how a town t raitor role works,, but I would think they wouldn't get to attend mafia meetings?

If so extreme would be a bad fit for town traitor because part of case against him is he knew sonic visited Halrob, and another part is somehow knew rag had or was going to claim town protective role.

You are right to have been airing things that are on your mind, if they don't get discussed through, sometimes you will get reassurance, sometimes others will see things they hadn't considered and so they will need to reassess.

I have read this about Traitor Role

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor

and that's why I stated on page 20

...
I am an investigative role of some sort. I have information on someone having visited Halrob. I'm curious if that person who I will not yet name but have named two people for (Ragian/Sonic) is a protective role, or a mafia roleblocker role.

It might be that EW belongs to town and if so - maybe it's not what it looks like.

[hjelp]

also searching on Google traitor role maffia
=>
In a Mafia-style game, the "traitor" is a neutral or Town role with a Mafia win condition, meaning they work for the Mafia and win if the Mafia wins, even if they are dead. They typically cannot communicate directly with the main Mafia faction but can act deceptively to harm the Town, similar to a bad Town member. Traitors are often kept secret from the Mafia to allow for deeper deception, as they don't have a Mafia faction-based role

[Loose Canon]

Actually, and I'm possibly getting a bit ahead of myself here, as currently only I am voting extreme, but let me sound it out.

Ragian and sonic each have or at least had suspicions of each other.
PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDABLE as a town version of each other.

Lynch extreme today and see he does indeed flip mafia.
Sonic coin flips between protecting rag and protecting me tonight.
Rag coin flips between protecting sonic and protecting who he feels of others most likely town tonight.
It would I think flip what I think is extremes mafia strategy completely against him and his cohorts.

Fpd by hjelp
And again - will read your postings Hjelp pinky promise

[Loose Canon]

Ok thanks Hjelp that would go to confirm to me at least that whatever else extreme may be, he virtually cannot be a town traitor - if any

[hjelp]

well, we better lynch one today and the only one that we can agree on is EW. I have EW 3rd on my list in case of a Scout but I can put EW first.

Unvote Ragian
Vote EW

[Extreme Ways]

Look Chana I have explained what I did and what my info is like 3 times. I did not track Ragian, I have said so before. I chose to be vague initially to get a feel for the situation. The fact that Rag seems to also be a power role is pure luck.

But in D-1 you said this

I don't like to hide behind other's assessments. It seems like dereliction of responsibility. As if you already know halrob's alignment, and you're already distancing yourself...

The bolded is either catered exactly towards pocketing me, or Rag is just town?

Expresses the same sentiment I had, just now targeted as just 1 player.

I am also voting Halrob in spirit but will not put him on L-1.

Ahm...what does that mean? Pocketing you...

You have me in your pocket, I townread you.

Pocketing as a term is mostly used as describing a mafia appealing to someone trying to get townread by that person. You posting the same thoughts I had but in slightly different form makes me townread you, because I had a similar process myself. But you are also a good enough player that in theory you could post it exactly because I had already voiced similar sentiments, to make me townread you.

I'm not exactly buying the cop claim but I'll wait to see if someone counterclaims.

Follow the cop - dont think I've played it in the traditional sense but I dont like the strategy as either alignment because it dumbs the game down a lot. It's a good strategy as far as I know.

In D-1 you saying you townread Ragian. But tagged pocketing also as a risk.
So I do not feel your attemtp of baiting on Ragin is not pure random and pure luck.
.
1. If you townread Ragian on D-1 then why threw a bait on Ragian on D-2 rathar than on some one else you did not townread?
2. If you was thinking Ragian pocketing then what exact things Ragian said on D-1 made you think Ragian is pocketing ?

Choosing Ragian as a target to interact with was deliberate. The fact that they were not vanilla town as I thought is not. I didnt foresee that Ragian would also have visited someone (halrob, specifically).

[Extreme Ways]

Is it me who is skill issued or is it town.

Is Rag now the only sensible person in this thread? Hjelp is being reasonable enough yet also shrugvoting me, not being convinced for when I will actually flip town tracker and absolving himself of responsibility.

Loose is "considering multiple opportunities according to Sonic" yet not taking into account anything I say.

Sonic has turned around on his own read on me when he noticed I was actually a viable push.

@serial killer, kill Sonic this night.

[SoN!c]

Lots of questions spinning in my head because EW is high-impact; if he’s scum we want him gone early. But if town we need him alive.

To recapitulate: Ragian is the primary suspect coming out of EW’s claim: EW explicitly flagged Rag as the other person involved around Halrob with precise role info and Rag’s D2 behaviour was defensive and cagey (he resisted being forward earlier and later just offerred a “take the bullet” line when eventually cornered rather than a clean process/clear claim), which reads very scummy in context, at least to me.

So was Rag the target for a town EW or did the scum play just backfire? Because if Rag was the target then why EW advocates a no lynch on Ragian now?

In my mind: If EW is town the lynch on Ragian should be 100% correct; (but the flipside is: if EW is scum, Ragian is likely town). I've run all posibilities of EW and Rag being scum together but nothing makes big sense.

Second question: EW claimed tracker but that can't be right. But if false why didn't he just claim town watcher? Watching Halrob would have been the prime choice for any watcher, town or scum. And a watcher would explain everything so much better. What's the catch here? If EW is town watcher why can't he just say so?

@EW : if your not a tracker just say your real role. Because if you refuses to clarify it better then "just pure luck" how you got the precise info on Ragian right, that’s a big red flag. The biggest we have.

Unvote

[halrob64]

I thought we were not using outside sources for discussion or is it OK to use Google/Wiki etc?

[SoN!c]

@serial killer, kill Sonic this night.

This is exactly what you said earlier today but in a more "EW polished and sophisticated way" when you made it very clear that Ragian should not be lynched today.

[SoN!c]

I thought we were not using outside sources for discussion or is it OK to use Google/Wiki etc?

Looking up roles or possible set ups like on mafia wiki scum is allowed and very much advised even. It makes you understand the game mechanics better. But no AI or third party