Scotland [Quenched]

by **reverend_kyle** on Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:21 am

reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

by **Balsiefen** on Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:29 am

yamahafazer wrote:Cos you ask us to say..... you need to flip the casles....

anyway... it's definatly getting there... game play on this latest update looks good... i think better than the earleyer ones....

but I'm willing to be perswaded otherwise..

Thats good, i'm starting to think that too. We're getting there

by **yamahafazer** on Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:02 am

reverend_kyle wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

gimil seems to be a bit grumpy at the moment.... maybe he'll be better soon. (we hope)

by **Balsiefen** on Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:44 pm

yamahafazer wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

gimil seems to be a bit grumpy at the moment.... maybe he'll be better soon. (we hope)

He seems ok to me.

Anyway, he's been useful enough to me in the past to diserve a little grumpiness :wink:

by **reverend_kyle** on Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:44 pm

Balsiefen wrote:
yamahafazer wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

gimil seems to be a bit grumpy at the moment.... maybe he'll be better soon. (we hope)

He seems ok to me.

Anyway, he's been useful enough to me in the past to diserve a little grumpiness

I like gimil. I was just meaning, that there's enough non scottish people who think oaktowns seems scottish that we an disregard the people who actually live in scotland and don't think it seems that way.

by **Balsiefen** on Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:47 am

reverend_kyle wrote:
Balsiefen wrote:
yamahafazer wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

gimil seems to be a bit grumpy at the moment.... maybe he'll be better soon. (we hope)

He seems ok to me.

Anyway, he's been useful enough to me in the past to diserve a little grumpiness

I like gimil. I was just meaning, that there's enough non scottish people who think oaktowns seems scottish that we an disregard the people who actually live in scotland and don't think it seems that way.

I see what your thinking. I think oaktown is not making too many changes atm because the gameplay is changing so often and theres a good chance all his work would have to be undone at my ficleness :wink:

by **yamahafazer** on Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:13 am

Balsiefen wrote:
yamahafazer wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Lets all ignore the actual scottish person in the thread. This map looks scottish, at least by stereotypes.

I was meaning gimil.

gimil seems to be a bit grumpy at the moment.... maybe he'll be better soon. (we hope)

He seems ok to me.

Anyway, he's been useful enough to me in the past to diserve a little grumpiness

Ye sure I'm not saying we sould ignore him I'm just saying that he seems a little grumpy is all... I'm sure it'll pass.

by **oaktown** on Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:11 am

nobody is dissin' gimil (and if they do they'll have to deal with me!). But if anybody has any thoughts as to how we can 'scottich-up' this map, I'm all ears. I'm looking at this as Balsie's project and I'm just his bitch, so if anybody has concerns/crititisms about the work I do here I won't take it personally. I'm just here to help make a good map better.

And the updates will come, but I'm away from my computer for a few days. Talk gameplay and whatever you all come up with will be added/changed next week.

by **AndyDufresne** on Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:53 pm

Hm...scottish up the map... Plaid and associative colors?

No..

--Andy

by **Balsiefen** on Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:40 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Hm...scottish up the map... Plaid and associative colors?

No..

--Andy

Um, could be a good point but any reasons?

Anyway people, are we happy with the gameplay? If theres anything anyone would like to change, please say before oaktown starts his wonderful work.

by **oaktown** on Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:44 pm

Balsiefen wrote:Anyway people, are we happy with the gameplay? If theres anything anyone would like to change, please say before oaktown starts his wonderful work.

You'll never make everybody happy with the gameplay... that's the nature of the Foundry. :wink:

Three areas I'd like to see discussed before I carry on:

1. Since we've redrawn regions you may want to recalculate the bonuses. Here's the # territories/# borders/# attackers/# border regions for each region, i think, followed by the bonus (not rounded) according to cairns' calculator (which comes out one lower for each bonus than widow's):
Highland: 7/5/4/3 +5.0
West Isles: 4/2/2/2 +1.8
Grampian: 4/3/5/3 +3.1
Strathclyde: 6/3/9/5 +4.4
Borders: 7/3/3/3 +3.5
Dum Gall: 3/2/4/2 +1.9
Central: 5/4/5/3 +4.0
Cities: 4/4/12/5 + 5.0

These clearly are not perfect, andomebody should really recheck this because I did it very quickly. I'd say the city bonus is fine at +4 despite how hard it will be to hold (see concern#3, below), and I can go either way with the highlands - anybody who is able to defend all 5 borders probably deserves the +6. Others can be improved upon based on these new figures: Grampians makes more sense at +3, Borders just doubled in size and should probably be a +4, and if we leave Stirling in the central region it makes strathcylde a better +4.

2. Are we putting the unpassable mountains back in the Lothians? I don't know the region well so I'll leave that to the Scots, but I think it would be good to block at least one route in what is otherwise a mess of a region. From a gameplay perspective I'd suggest we block midlothian from peebles and maybe even selkirk, because it makes the city a wee bit easier to hold and it gives the region a circular nature.

3. The cities are so hard to hold it may become a frivolous bonus in 98% of games... the only games in which it will matter is if somebody was lucky enough to get all four on the drop. How about a +1 bonus for holding three of four? A +1 might encourage a player who starts with two or three to hold them, and to then go after the fourth.

by **Balsiefen** on Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:35 am

Okay oaktown, some very good suggestions. I particularily like the cities idea

ScotlandGimp V1.8

Changes
-+1 bonus for 3 cities
-bonuses changed
-lothian Mts invisibalised

by **oaktown** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:09 am

It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I hadn't posted in a while and I didn't want Bals to think I'd forgotten this project!

I'm working on making everything fit - I'd like to keep the larger font size (shown) for the titles, so I've taken some liberties with some borders. Haven't tackled the west side just yet, but it's progressing. There is so much left to do it's almost not worth posting, but here it is anyway.

by **Balsiefen** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:50 am

Nice

I like the idea with the Lothians. That'll solve a bit of bother

by **Balsiefen** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:09 pm

Bump, come on people.

by **Pietros** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:26 pm

Hey Balsiefen & Newcastle.

It's looking good.

by **Balsiefen** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:28 pm

Pietros wrote:Hey Balsiefen & Newcastle.

It's looking good.

Thanks, though Newcastle isnt on it anymore :wink:

by **iancanton** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:35 pm

oaktown wrote:I agree that the Isles bonus is too high, and borders may now be too low.

i also agree about bringing down the western isles bonus to two, just like classic south america.

orkney and shetland in the highlands, and stirling in central, look natural. we probably shouldn't increase the highlands bonus because it's an obvious place for someone to pile up his forces while everyone else is attacking each other down south.

the merged southeast region is actually called lothian and borders (lothian is more important, so comes first). the best known organisation that uses this name is the lothian and borders police. the three cities bonus is an excellent idea, similar to the great lakes bonus. the pentland hills south of edinburgh help to protect the city a bit if someone does manage to occupy all of the cities.

i don't know what can be done easily using graphics programs, but is it possible to do a perspective effect, so that the south is toward us (looking bigger) and the north at a distance (looking smaller)? this will give more room in the middle and south for names and, if needed, one or more extra territories.

ian.

by **oaktown** on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:21 pm

iancanton wrote: don't know what can be done easily using graphics programs, but is it possible to do a perspective effect, so that the south is toward us (looking bigger) and the north at a distance (looking smaller)? this will give more room in the middle and south for names and, if needed, one or more extra territories.

thanks for the all the feedback Ian, especially the heads-up on Lothian & Borders - nice to know it is a natural fit together.

It's certainly possible to re-orient the map, a la Great Lakes or Canada (Widowmakers likes the use of perspective), and it's something I'd like to try on a map sometime... but for this I think project I'd like to keep it looking like an old map and less like a computer or satellite generated image of the region. I'm certain I can make it work with some creative tweaking.

by **Balsiefen** on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:57 am

Thanks for stirling, i've only just noticed i didn't change it, and lothian and boarders is easy to add in. Anyway, what do you think about the pentland hills oaktown? Its hard to know wheather they should stay or not.

I'll do another update when i can but i'm a little unncertain on time right now so it'll proberbly have to wait to this evening

by **oaktown** on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:10 am

no rush - I'm a bit behind on what i had hoped to do with my map by now anyway.

Are you interested in doing the XML for this, bals? I'm happy to do it as it will be pretty easy for this map, but I thought maybe it would be something you'd want to try for yourself. The most difficult part is setting the army count locations, but if we can get away with not using army shadows that shouldn't be hard either. Let me know.

by **Balsiefen** on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:21 pm

oaktown wrote:no rush - I'm a bit behind on what i had hoped to do with my map by now anyway.

Are you interested in doing the XML for this, bals? I'm happy to do it as it will be pretty easy for this map, but I thought maybe it would be something you'd want to try for yourself. The most difficult part is setting the army count locations, but if we can get away with not using army shadows that shouldn't be hard either. Let me know.

Yea, i'll have a stab at the XML when we get round to it. I'm quite good at that sort of thing.

by **Balsiefen** on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:38 pm

ScotlandGimp V1.9

Changes
Stirling moved to central
Strathclyde bonus down to 5

Should we up the central bonus to 5?

by **oaktown** on Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:10 am

Here's my latest... not bad for just my sixth draft if I do say so myself.

What I've done to this draft:
• adjusted borders to better fit territory titles
• took the liberty of changing "Renfrewshire" to just "Renfrew," which seems alright since it is from Renfrew County anyway.
• added attack lines across water
• tweaked mountains to fit borders a bit better

What I still have on my to-do list:
• completely redo the title, including a thistle
• make space for army counts
• try a small version
• come up with more appropriate territory colors and link colors with legend
• try the tartan thing
• many, many other things

bals - do you want to come up with a signature? If not, I am kind of getting used to calling the map "Balsiefen's Scotland."

I intend to remove the "As seen through..." line and I will somehow incorporate my logo into the design.

by **Balsiefen** on Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:06 am

Very nice Oaktown.

I dont think Renfrew will cause any trouble, i only put it as shire because everyone wanted the shire suffixes

As it is, i'm quite liking my name how it is so I'll keep it for now.

Have you noticed this is beggining to become a bit of a two sided thread.

Scotland [Quenched]

;p

Re: ;p

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