Conquer Club

Why is it that a game like Fallout 3 has such low replay value?

After I beat it, I was glad that I didn't buy it, and then I realize--too late of course--that I wasted a lot of time for something that wasn't worth it. You know, everything now and then I'd reinstall Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2, and enjoy it, especially BG2 with my little brother.

That's what these new games lack: there's no co-op. Imagine how much fun you could have if you played one of those games with your friend--especially Oblivion, running through towns and wreaking mayhem is so much more fun when you got a friend along with you. Oblivion: lockpicking your way into a store, jumping on the tables, kicking everything off, running into the bedroom, pounding the poor store clerk's head in with a sledgehammer while your friend is pounding the heads of the guards that run up the stairs--what is there not like about that? Playing games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion can be fun, but it's like watching a movie by yourself--it's lacking a lot (you'll laugh a lot less watching a movie by yourself compared to watching a movie with at least one other person, try it and see if you don't think so).

If they made a co-op option, these games would please many people of different tastes. It can't be too difficult to do that... If it can't be done with 1 console 2 controllers, than what's so bad about 2 consoles--that's 2 games sold! What are these guys thinking?

BigBallinStalin wrote:Why is it that a game like Fallout 3 has such low replay value?

After I beat it, I was glad that I didn't buy it, and then I realize--too late of course--that I wasted a lot of time for something that wasn't worth it. You know, everything now and then I'd reinstall Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2, and enjoy it, especially BG2 with my little brother.

That's what these new games lack: there's no co-op. Imagine how much fun you could have if you played one of those games with your friend--especially Oblivion, running through towns and wreaking mayhem is so much more fun when you got a friend along with you. Oblivion: lockpicking your way into a store, jumping on the tables, kicking everything off, running into the bedroom, pounding the poor store clerk's head in with a sledgehammer while your friend is pounding the heads of the guards that run up the stairs--what is there not like about that? Playing games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion can be fun, but it's like watching a movie by yourself--it's lacking a lot (you'll laugh a lot less watching a movie by yourself compared to watching a movie with at least one other person, try it and see if you don't think so).

If they made a co-op option, these games would please many people of different tastes. It can't be too difficult to do that... If it can't be done with 1 console 2 controllers, than what's so bad about 2 consoles--that's 2 games sold! What are these guys thinking?

I am not too familiar with the co-op games. I understand that Left 4 Dead was designed primarily as a co-op game and that some people have said that the solo gameplay isn't very good, but the co-op gameplay is awesome.

Have there been any good games that the co-op was good and so was the solo play? I am thinking of Halo, but that is really multi-player and solo play... did Halo have a co-op option? I don't think it did.

ser stiefel wrote:Have there been any good games that the co-op was good and so was the solo play? I am thinking of Halo, but that is really multi-player and solo play... did Halo have a co-op option? I don't think it did.

Ya, it did.

I guess I don't play enough video games to know any better. I certainly don't know enough about RPGs as this is the first one I've ever really played.

I like it. I like the open world, I like the sidequests, I like the voice acting.

But co-op video games are still the best (I just don't know how one would do Fallout as a co-op game). And about the only way to beat Halo on Legendary was if you were playing it co-op.

I really liked Resident Evil 5, but again, that was the first RE game I've ever played, and I played through it with a friend, so it was probably more fun that way.

hecter wrote:

ser stiefel wrote:Have there been any good games that the co-op was good and so was the solo play? I am thinking of Halo, but that is really multi-player and solo play... did Halo have a co-op option? I don't think it did.

Ya, it did.

Regardless, single player Halo makes me retch. I'm sure I'll take flak for saying this (as I almost always do), but Halo was not only an atrocity of a game but also has paved the way for later first person shooters, which have picked up some of its worst bits. For instance, regenerating health is bullshit.

As for Baldur's Gate, that series was the peak of its genre (NWN and Icewind Dale were also pretty damn good). I'm OK if a game falls short of that. Surprisingly, I could never get into Fallout or Fallout 2 despite them being in a Baldur's Gate sort of vein. I guess it's all just a matter of taste.

P.S. Oblivion was an OK game too.

ser stiefel wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Why is it that a game like Fallout 3 has such low replay value?

After I beat it, I was glad that I didn't buy it, and then I realize--too late of course--that I wasted a lot of time for something that wasn't worth it. You know, everything now and then I'd reinstall Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2, and enjoy it, especially BG2 with my little brother.

That's what these new games lack: there's no co-op. Imagine how much fun you could have if you played one of those games with your friend--especially Oblivion, running through towns and wreaking mayhem is so much more fun when you got a friend along with you. Oblivion: lockpicking your way into a store, jumping on the tables, kicking everything off, running into the bedroom, pounding the poor store clerk's head in with a sledgehammer while your friend is pounding the heads of the guards that run up the stairs--what is there not like about that? Playing games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion can be fun, but it's like watching a movie by yourself--it's lacking a lot (you'll laugh a lot less watching a movie by yourself compared to watching a movie with at least one other person, try it and see if you don't think so).

If they made a co-op option, these games would please many people of different tastes. It can't be too difficult to do that... If it can't be done with 1 console 2 controllers, than what's so bad about 2 consoles--that's 2 games sold! What are these guys thinking?

I am not too familiar with the co-op games. I understand that Left 4 Dead was designed primarily as a co-op game and that some people have said that the solo gameplay isn't very good, but the co-op gameplay is awesome.

Have there been any good games that the co-op was good and so was the solo play? I am thinking of Halo, but that is really multi-player and solo play... did Halo have a co-op option? I don't think it did.

Halo did.
Resistance had co-op, which made it more fun.

Any FPS/more-RPGish-than-Resistance would definitely receive more attention and more money if they simply put a co-op option in there.

pimpdave wrote:But co-op video games are still the best (I just don't know how one would do Fallout as a co-op game). And about the only way to beat Halo on Legendary was if you were playing it co-op.

It can be done. It would require logging in together and doing quests together, but the main source of enjoyment would be killing stuff with a friend, just like watching a movie with a friend--it's more fun than doing stuff alone.

Also, regarding the lack of dialogue options in Fallout 3, it hasn't really bothered me yet, because the game seems to be more focused on your actions than your words (again, maybe I'm just painfully ignorant of RPGs... you see, despite being a child of the 80s, I grew up reading books and playing board games, not watching TV and playing video games).

So there are multiple methods for completing the quests, and depending on how much effort one wants to expend, the outcomes are drastically different.

Or is that just standard to modern RPGs?

pimpdave wrote:Also, regarding the lack of dialogue options in Fallout 3, it hasn't really bothered me yet, because the game seems to be more focused on your actions than your words (again, maybe I'm just painfully ignorant of RPGs... you see, despite being a child of the 80s, I grew up reading books and playing board games, not watching TV and playing video games).

So there are multiple methods for completing the quests, and depending on how much effort one wants to expend, the outcomes are drastically different.

Or is that just standard to modern RPGs?

I think that is the standard. But the thing is the outcomes in those games don't really affect anyone else, or even you (most of those outcomes of the quests don't), so they're kind of meaningless. They're haphazardly placed stories within a somewhat OK re-run of some bad sci-fi film (fallout 3's main story), or think of it as some poorly conceived work of fiction with bad transitions and no soul, no togetherness or sense of completion--just a half-assed novel made to look all shiny and make some quick cash.

But hey if you like Fallout 3, then enjoy, you know? Opinions are just opinions, so if you like something, then don't mind our horseshit.

pimpdave wrote:So there are multiple methods for completing the quests, and depending on how much effort one wants to expend, the outcomes are drastically different.

Or is that just standard to modern RPGs?

Seems to be more and more standard on modern RPGs. I am currently playing Dragon Age Origins and at one point in some dialog my best healing mage decided that she was against us and we had a fight and I had to kill her. lol.. I loaded the save game and chose other dialog options and kept here alive instead. Usually your companions can't be killed off. Apparently in this game they can! Interesting. If something like this happens again, I may leave it that way, so that on subsequent play throughs I will get a very different experience. I may even look for more ways to alter the gameplay...

BigBallinStalin wrote: But hey if you like Fallout 3, then enjoy, you know? Opinions are just opinions, so if you like something, then don't mind our horseshit.

I liked Fallout 3, despite some of the problems I had with it.

My all time favorites for console rpg's would have to be the first Fable game and Oblivion. I didn't ever play any PC rpg's like Balder's Gate (was that PC only?) So I may not have had the expections that others have had.

ser stiefel wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote: But hey if you like Fallout 3, then enjoy, you know? Opinions are just opinions, so if you like something, then don't mind our horseshit.

I liked Fallout 3, despite some of the problems I had with it.

My all time favorites for console rpg's would have to be the first Fable game and Oblivion. I didn't ever play any PC rpg's like Balder's Gate (was that PC only?) So I may not have had the expections that others have had.

Yeah, ya missed out, but if you're not used to crummy graphics, then you might play some classics and question our sanity..

BigBallinStalin wrote:But hey if you like Fallout 3, then enjoy, you know? Opinions are just opinions, so if you like something, then don't mind our horseshit.

Oh trust me, it doesn't get me down what you guys are saying. In fact, I'm quite glad for the discussion this has prompted, both because it bumps the thread (I like imagining Teletubbyprince wringing his hands in despondent frustration over continuing to see it on the first page) and because I'm interested in learning more about RPGs and stuff.

I like the post-apocalyptic angle of Fallout more than I think I'd like the fantasy stuff of the games you guys are talking about.

Plus, the detail put into the map, I mean, it's almost an exact replica of Washington DC. More so than Grand Theft Auto IV is of NYC. Maybe part of the fun for me is walking around the post-apocalyptic version of a city I know well, much like it was quite fun in Ballad of Gay Tony to base jump off the replica of a building I used to work in.

I haven't bothered to start the Pittsburgh expansion to Fallout 3 yet, but I'm hoping it's another almost perfect duplicate of that city, which, although I don't know well, I have been to a few times.

And that might be the lynch pin for me. You guys are all talking about things in the games that you prefer that lean towards a deeper understanding of the form than I have. I would probably lose interest in a world that didn't resemble the one we live in (much like novels that are based in fantasy lands are less compelling to me than those set in real cities). So again, to each his own, but it is worth defending the creators of Fallout 3 for the replication of DC the way they did.

Another thing: I really like all of the references to movies and stories built into Fallout 3. For example, how your dog is the same breed as the dog in Road Warrior. Those are the kinds of things I pick up on and really enjoy, perhaps more than my limited understanding of good complex role playing games.

pimpdave wrote:Another thing: I really like all of the references to movies and stories built into Fallout 3. For example, how your dog is the same breed as the dog in Road Warrior. Those are the kinds of things I pick up on and really enjoy, perhaps more than my limited understanding of good complex role playing games.

There are tons of refs in this game. Check out this link:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_cultural_references

I have read Harlan Elison's "A Boy and His Dog"... I had to laugh at that one, because canibalism is actually possible in Fallout 3.

I'll be sure to check out that link when I'm thoroughly finished with the game. Most of the fun for me is catching them on my own.

Plus, I bet that site has walkthroughs and stuff... I don't even want to be tempted with that until I'm finished with the game on my own.

pimpdave wrote:I'll be sure to check out that link when I'm thoroughly finished with the game. Most of the fun for me is catching them on my own.

Plus, I bet that site has walkthroughs and stuff... I don't even want to be tempted with that until I'm finished with the game on my own.

True, that site has loads of info. I remember I bought that game last year while I was on vacation during Thanksgiving week and played about 30hrs that week. lol... Its bad when you get a lecture from yourself about waisting too much time playing a game!

At the rate I'm going, it'll take me a couple years to finish the thing.

I've wanted Fallout 3 since it came out, I've just been way too lazy to buy it. Sigh.

Skittles! wrote:I've wanted Fallout 3 since it came out, I've just been way too lazy to buy it. Sigh.

Isn't there a download version available?

ser stiefel wrote:Have there been any good games that the co-op was good and so was the solo play? I am thinking of Halo, but that is really multi-player and solo play... did Halo have a co-op option? I don't think it did.

Super Mario Bros Wii.


Best game ever.

MeDeFe wrote:

Skittles! wrote:I've wanted Fallout 3 since it came out, I've just been way too lazy to buy it. Sigh.

Isn't there a download version available?

Not everyone's a dirty pirate...

ser stiefel wrote:The sweet strains of the Soil Stradivarius. Now that is some good music.

I wholeheartedly agree.

TeletubbyPrince wrote:

MeDeFe wrote:

Skittles! wrote:I've wanted Fallout 3 since it came out, I've just been way too lazy to buy it. Sigh.

Isn't there a download version available?

Not everyone's a dirty pirate...

Pirates can't help it. The don't have much soap on those ships.

MeDeFe wrote:

Skittles! wrote:I've wanted Fallout 3 since it came out, I've just been way too lazy to buy it. Sigh.

Isn't there a download version available?

I would if it wasn't going to blow my monthly limit of downloads =D