The IRS can run an audit at any time. No congress needed. Keep it non political.
The IRS has an endless wealth of information on us from business dealings at the local, state and federal level. Sell on Anazon you get a 1099. Buy a car..dealership reports taxes. Payroll taxes are highly reviewed. Own a hotel..The list of taxes you play to the different entities is endless and they want their money. The IRS can cross reference just about anything. Also the endless lawsuits from Trumps business failures would have gone through scores of lawyers and the court system. He might be one of the most audited people already.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:44 am
by warmonger1981
spurgistan wrote:OK, once we get done with the business of getting Trump and his cronies out of office for all the hilariously overt corruption they've done, let's look into this. Deal? We're generally agreed that Joe Biden probably shouldn't be the president. But first let's apply your stringent rules to the current administration. Which includes seeing where the hell Donnie's money is, which, again, would be required for literally any job in government except his, which is why customarily everybody has released them.
Can you please list his corruption? I didn't say we agree on Joe nor did anyone else so speak for yourself. Its customary not required. Big difference. If Congress want to make a law requiring a president to release his tax returns they can do that. So why dont they? Hell all of Congress should release their taxes. I'd like to see how Pelosi made so much money in Congress. And let's not single out a person to be put on the firing squad first. If anybody commits a crime I suggest they be looked into immediately. Not Trump 1st and then Biden. Do both at same time. Why would you go after one guy first but not the other with more damming evidence? You sound partisan which makes you look like a bias fool. I pitty a fool like Mr. T would say.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:19 am
by 2dimes
Mr T does not pity random fools. He pitys the fool that messes with his van, because that fool is going to get a brutal beating.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:55 pm
by spurgistan
warmonger1981 wrote:
spurgistan wrote:OK, once we get done with the business of getting Trump and his cronies out of office for all the hilariously overt corruption they've done, let's look into this. Deal? We're generally agreed that Joe Biden probably shouldn't be the president. But first let's apply your stringent rules to the current administration. Which includes seeing where the hell Donnie's money is, which, again, would be required for literally any job in government except his, which is why customarily everybody has released them.
Can you please list his corruption? I didn't say we agree on Joe nor did anyone else so speak for yourself. Its customary not required. Big difference. If Congress want to make a law requiring a president to release his tax returns they can do that. So why dont they? Hell all of Congress should release their taxes. I'd like to see how Pelosi made so much money in Congress. And let's not single out a person to be put on the firing squad first. If anybody commits a crime I suggest they be looked into immediately. Not Trump 1st and then Biden. Do both at same time. Why would you go after one guy first but not the other with more damming evidence? You sound partisan which makes you look like a bias fool. I pitty a fool like Mr. T would say.
Joe Biden doesn't hold political office? You can't remove somebody from office if they don't have it. That's the imperative, both to punish corrupt acts and to make sure they don't get office. I'm surprised this is controversial. But also not.
The list of Teapot-Dome-shaming corruption endemic to the current administration is a bit too long for me to list on a coffee break. If you have some free NYT articles this month, I'd give this guy a read. Yeah it's opinion, and it's from a whole 5 months ago so it misses a whole litany of scandals, but here it is.
spurgistan wrote:OK, once we get done with the business of getting Trump and his cronies out of office for all the hilariously overt corruption they've done, let's look into this. Deal? We're generally agreed that Joe Biden probably shouldn't be the president. But first let's apply your stringent rules to the current administration. Which includes seeing where the hell Donnie's money is, which, again, would be required for literally any job in government except his, which is why customarily everybody has released them.
Can you please list his corruption? I didn't say we agree on Joe nor did anyone else so speak for yourself. Its customary not required. Big difference. If Congress want to make a law requiring a president to release his tax returns they can do that. So why dont they? Hell all of Congress should release their taxes. I'd like to see how Pelosi made so much money in Congress. And let's not single out a person to be put on the firing squad first. If anybody commits a crime I suggest they be looked into immediately. Not Trump 1st and then Biden. Do both at same time. Why would you go after one guy first but not the other with more damming evidence? You sound partisan which makes you look like a bias fool. I pitty a fool like Mr. T would say.
Joe Biden doesn't hold political office? You can't remove somebody from office if they don't have it. That's the imperative, both to punish corrupt acts and to make sure they don't get office. I'm surprised this is controversial. But also not.
The list of Teapot-Dome-shaming corruption endemic to the current administration is a bit too long for me to list on a coffee break. If you have some free NYT articles this month, I'd give this guy a read. Yeah it's opinion, and it's from a whole 5 months ago so it misses a whole litany of scandals, but here it is.
If you open NYT article links in a "private browsing' window you can circumvent the monthly article limit. Just saying...
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:12 pm
by Symmetry
This has been interesting so far. The more Trump inclined folks are worried that disclosing his tax records will hurt Trump, so they need to be kept secret- that they hide something that could be used as a weapon.
The anti-Trump folk largely agree.
I'm largely anti-Trump, to be fair, but I don't think the pro-Trump peeps here are doing themselves any favours by arguing that it must be kept secret because revealing it would be terribly damaging to Trump.
Plus, ya know, he did promise he'd release them, and lots of other Presidents released their tax records for the purpose of transparency.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:21 pm
by saxitoxin
Symmetry wrote:Plus, ya know, he did promise he'd release them, and lots of other Presidents released their tax records for the purpose of transparency.
Lyndon Johnson didn't. Of the 10 wealthiest presidents in U.S. history, only two have been alive since the advent of the personal income tax and neither of them - Trump or Johnson - have released their tax returns. When you have significant assets there are greater complexities involved in the release of returns than when you're a loser at life who owes more in credit card debt than your net worth (i.e. Biden) and your tax return fits on an index card.
The Democrats want us to believe that Biden being a loser is something worthy of celebrating, while Trump being a winner is something worthy of shame. This is part of the Democratic worldview; men should use women restrooms and women should use men; losers are winners and winners are losers; good is evil and evil is good.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:23 pm
by HitRed
MookSpur, I tried the link. First word
Opinion Trump’s Corruption: The Definitive List
After 2 years+ show me the court room evidence.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:54 pm
by Symmetry
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Plus, ya know, he did promise he'd release them, and lots of other Presidents released their tax records for the purpose of transparency.
Lyndon Johnson didn't.
I did read your whole post, but when your argument is essentially "I remember Lyndon B John
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Plus, ya know, he did promise he'd release them, and lots of other Presidents released their tax records for the purpose of transparency.
Lyndon Johnson didn't. Of the 10 wealthiest presidents in U.S. history, only two have been alive since the advent of the personal income tax and neither of them - Trump or Johnson - have released their tax returns. When you have significant assets there are greater complexities involved in the release of returns than when you're a loser at life who owes more in credit card debt than your net worth (i.e. Biden) and your tax return fits on an index card.
The Democrats want us to believe that Biden being a loser is something worthy of celebrating, while Trump being a winner is something worthy of shame. This is part of the Democratic worldview; men should use women restrooms and women should use men; losers are winners and winners are losers; good is evil and evil is good.
Or, ya know, Trump could just release his tax returns like he said he would. Don't you think it's odd that he won't? You tend to be a critical thinker here, but going back to Lyndon B Johnson, who as far as I know never promised to release his tax returns, seems like a stretch.
I'm not sure what you're going for here, but it doesn't seem like a strong argument in favour of Trump.
It mostly seems like an argument to look everywhere else but Trump, which is kinda suss.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 pm
by saxitoxin
Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure what you're going for here
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:00 pm
by Symmetry
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure what you're going for here
Yeah, ok.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:04 am
by mookiemcgee
HitRed wrote:Mook, I tried the link. First word
Opinion Trump’s Corruption: The Definitive List
After 2 years+ show me the court room evidence.
That was spurgistan's post, not mine. I just quoted it to point out a way around the NYT paywall in case anyone wanted to read it.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:39 am
by HitRed
Corrected
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:34 pm
by Symmetry
Well, this thread has been a bit of a disaster. I'd give it two thumbs down, but I recently lost one of my thumbs when the crowd got too raucous over my decision in a gladiator fight.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:13 am
by saxitoxin
Symmetry wrote:Well, this thread has been a bit of a disaster. I'd give it two thumbs down, but I recently lost one of my thumbs when the crowd got too raucous over my decision in a gladiator fight.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:00 pm
by thegreekdog
spurgistan wrote:
HitRed wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:
HitRed wrote:I would assume you already doctored them
Everyone's guilty to proven innocent.
On the contrary: we want to see the returns to see if it proves him guilty of credible claims against him.
You are pre-assuming guilt again. Prejudice.
I suggest you look up witch hunt.
So, there shouldn't be investigations? What rd is describing is how investigations work. If Trump didn't want questionable business ties investigated, he shouldn't have run for president.
I'm from Salem, I know witch hunts. Spoiler - the witches didn't break an established tradition of voluntarily releasing tax info, the kind of disclosure that would be needed for literally any job in the federal government except for the presidency. They were just young women (and occasionally men) who fell afoul of important men for probably super valid reasons.
Why do you think Trump doesn't want his tax returns made public?
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:13 pm
by HitRed
thegreekdog wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
HitRed wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:
HitRed wrote:I would assume you already doctored them
Everyone's guilty to proven innocent.
On the contrary: we want to see the returns to see if it proves him guilty of credible claims against him.
You are pre-assuming guilt again. Prejudice.
I suggest you look up witch hunt.
So, there shouldn't be investigations? What rd is describing is how investigations work. If Trump didn't want questionable business ties investigated, he shouldn't have run for president.
I'm from Salem, I know witch hunts. Spoiler - the witches didn't break an established tradition of voluntarily releasing tax info, the kind of disclosure that would be needed for literally any job in the federal government except for the presidency. They were just young women (and occasionally men) who fell afoul of important men for probably super valid reasons.
Why do you think Trump doesn't want his tax returns made public?
Why do we all have made up names of CC?
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:36 pm
by jonesthecurl
I don't.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:10 pm
by HitRed
jonesthecurl wrote:I don't.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:07 am
by Dukasaur
HitRed wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:I don't.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:47 pm
by Symmetry
Just a weird little thought I had,- if Trump had to choose between building a wall and releasing his tax returns, which would he choose?
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:05 am
by HitRed
Symmetry wrote:Just a weird little thought I had,- if Trump had to choose between building a wall and releasing his tax returns, which would he choose?
Currently the wall is being built. I live in Texas and it's covered every few days on TV and NPR.
Currently Trump hasn't Released his taxes.
No choice needed.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:02 am
by spurgistan
thegreekdog wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
HitRed wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:
HitRed wrote:I would assume you already doctored them
Everyone's guilty to proven innocent.
On the contrary: we want to see the returns to see if it proves him guilty of credible claims against him.
You are pre-assuming guilt again. Prejudice.
I suggest you look up witch hunt.
So, there shouldn't be investigations? What rd is describing is how investigations work. If Trump didn't want questionable business ties investigated, he shouldn't have run for president.
I'm from Salem, I know witch hunts. Spoiler - the witches didn't break an established tradition of voluntarily releasing tax info, the kind of disclosure that would be needed for literally any job in the federal government except for the presidency. They were just young women (and occasionally men) who fell afoul of important men for probably super valid reasons.
Why do you think Trump doesn't want his tax returns made public?
I'd put money on the trifecta of 1. He doesn't have as much money as he says 2. Business in Russia that he keeps telling us doesn't exist 3. Politically damaging manipulations of tax law (his reported billion dollar loss in the 1990's that could have allowed him to pay no taxes for a while)
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:38 pm
by Symmetry
HitRed wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Just a weird little thought I had,- if Trump had to choose between building a wall and releasing his tax returns, which would he choose?
Currently the wall is being built. I live in Texas and it's covered every few days on TV and NPR.
Currently Trump hasn't Released his taxes.
No choice needed.
Fascinating, but didn't really answer the question.
Re: Should the IRS be politically weaponized?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:50 pm
by thegreekdog
spurgistan wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
HitRed wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:
HitRed wrote:I would assume you already doctored them
Everyone's guilty to proven innocent.
On the contrary: we want to see the returns to see if it proves him guilty of credible claims against him.
You are pre-assuming guilt again. Prejudice.
I suggest you look up witch hunt.
So, there shouldn't be investigations? What rd is describing is how investigations work. If Trump didn't want questionable business ties investigated, he shouldn't have run for president.
I'm from Salem, I know witch hunts. Spoiler - the witches didn't break an established tradition of voluntarily releasing tax info, the kind of disclosure that would be needed for literally any job in the federal government except for the presidency. They were just young women (and occasionally men) who fell afoul of important men for probably super valid reasons.
Why do you think Trump doesn't want his tax returns made public?
I'd put money on the trifecta of 1. He doesn't have as much money as he says 2. Business in Russia that he keeps telling us doesn't exist 3. Politically damaging manipulations of tax law (his reported billion dollar loss in the 1990's that could have allowed him to pay no taxes for a while)
I think #1 is probably the most likely. #2 is pretty well known, right? I don't think his supporters would care about #3. That being typed, I don't think his supporters would care much about anything.
That's a long way of asking if there is a non-political reason for Trump to release his tax returns?
