Conquer Club

No matter how this guy tries to spin it - it's nothing but educational segregation

http://www.annarbor.com/news/black-stud ... ry-school/

silvanricky wrote:No matter how this guy tries to spin it - it's nothing but educational segregation
http://www.annarbor.com/news/black-stud ... ry-school/

It certainly could be, but I think more information is needed. How is the "African American Lunch Bunch" set up...is it a voluntary group that anyone can join (in our school, anyone can join our African American or Asian American Caucuses). In that scenario, they would have had the opportunity to join the group and chose not to. If anyone can join and they chose not to, then this is not segregation. Different groups in schools do different things, including field trips.

However, if it is limited in it's membership in some way and individuals did not have the opportunity to join this group, then I would have to agree with you.

Lordie, I would have been pissed off if they'd not let me listen to a rocket scientist on a filed trip when I was a kid, I woulda been SO pissed off.

Even if this field trip and group were all-voluntary I would still have a problem with it. Setting up "groups" based on ethnicity just further divides us. It was wrong to segregate blacks from whites educationally in the past. But you don't overcome a past problem by using the same methods of dividing people and having this "group" mentality. Educational inclusivity needs to be just that, not a bunch of Asian-American, African-American, Anglo-American, or whoever-American. The goal is that we are all American and pursue our educational dreams with each other.

If it's a subsidized field trip, I have a problem, if the kids fund raised or the parents paid for it, I don't care.

There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

Besides, I can gaurantee that there are plenty of other races in that same school who are as "deprived" or more so than those blacks. Let's help ALL kids, not just those who happen to have one skin color.

DeltaFormation wrote:If it's a subsidized field trip, I have a problem, if the kids fund raised or the parents paid for it, I don't care.

Frankly, I would have a problem even if it were not tax-payer subsidized! It would be legal then, but not "OK". I mean, sure the KKK has a "legal right to exist", but that doesn't mean we should just sit back and say "OK.. go on with your business".

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

Besides, I can gaurantee that there are plenty of other races in that same school who are as "deprived" or more so than those blacks. Let's help ALL kids, not just those who happen to have one skin color.

It doesn't happen too often, player. But since this is the one time per 6 months that I agree with you about something I'm forced to give you 5 out of 5 applause emoticons.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

DeltaFormation wrote:If it's a subsidized field trip, I have a problem, if the kids fund raised or the parents paid for it, I don't care.

Frankly, I would have a problem even if it were not tax-payer subsidized! It would be legal then, but not "OK". I mean, sure the KKK has a "legal right to exist", but that doesn't mean we should just sit back and say "OK.. go on with your business".

You don't have to be OK with it. I don't care - you probably do and if you do, write about it, talk about it, protest it, whatever.

It's something so insignificant to me that it's just not worth my energy or time.

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

I disagree. I've done a lot of work with black children in New Orleans and they definitely respond more to the achievements of someone in their own race. So do white children. To suggest that children don't gravitate to someone "like" them when choosing a hero or role model is ridiculous. If there were no such thing as racism this would still hold true - you've worked enough with kids to know this. That doesn't mean that they can only be inspired by folks of their own race, it just means that it's more likely. If we were all white then a child would be more likely to choose a role model with the same color hair or eyes.

The principle as a good educator saw an opportunity to influence the black kids in a positive manner and as a notsogood politician he fucked up. Not a big deal, but it could be if it's blown up enough. Blacks need to be careful with the reverse racism thing - you can't have it both ways.


Honibaz

b.k. barunt wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

I disagree. I've done a lot of work with black children in New Orleans and they definitely respond more to the achievements of someone in their own race. So do white children. To suggest that children don't gravitate to someone "like" them when choosing a hero or role model is ridiculous. If there were no such thing as racism this would still hold true - you've worked enough with kids to know this. That doesn't mean that they can only be inspired by folks of their own race, it just means that it's more likely. If we were all white then a child would be more likely to choose a role model with the same color hair or eyes.

The principle as a good educator saw an opportunity to influence the black kids in a positive manner and as a notsogood politician he fucked up. Not a big deal, but it could be if it's blown up enough. Blacks need to be careful with the reverse racism thing - you can't have it both ways.


Honibaz

Your experience has also been scientifically proven. Young children do feel more comfortable with someone of their own race.

b.k. barunt wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

I disagree. I've done a lot of work with black children in New Orleans and they definitely respond more to the achievements of someone in their own race. So do white children. To suggest that children don't gravitate to someone "like" them when choosing a hero or role model is ridiculous. If there were no such thing as racism this would still hold true - you've worked enough with kids to know this. That doesn't mean that they can only be inspired by folks of their own race, it just means that it's more likely. If we were all white then a child would be more likely to choose a role model with the same color hair or eyes.

The principle as a good educator saw an opportunity to influence the black kids in a positive manner and as a notsogood politician he fucked up. Not a big deal, but it could be if it's blown up enough. Blacks need to be careful with the reverse racism thing - you can't have it both ways.


Honibaz

I do not question your experience with such things, but I can't stomach your entire hypothesis. I don't think children are inherently so fickle. I don't doubt that many children see skin color as important, but I imagine this is a reflection of a social misfire than a case of "that's just the way kids are." Hell, my little league football number was picked by its relationship with Herman Moore, and learning about George Washington Carver probably influenced me more to my chosen field than any other scientific figure. I'm the whitest person I know. I'm not saying that kids don't respond to race, but I don't think that it's inherent for children to be so responsive to physical groupings. I seriously doubt kids (a few might, but I don't think it's fair to call it a general rule) would pick role models based on hair or eye color if race were not a factor. Maybe I have my rose-colored glasses on though.

I have no comment really about the issue at hand, though I'm suspicious right off the bat just because of the topic.

This has been bugging me every time we talk about school issues

principle is not a principal

If anyone has watched "the Universe" series on the History channel, they're probably familiar with [the black guy] and [the asian guy] (haha, I forgot their names). But anyway, those two and Einstein are the three people that got me so interested in astrophysics.

bradleybadly wrote:This has been bugging me every time we talk about school issues

principle is not a principal

And I thought I was the only one irritated by that!!

b.k. barunt wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

I disagree. I've done a lot of work with black children in New Orleans and they definitely respond more to the achievements of someone in their own race. So do white children. To suggest that children don't gravitate to someone "like" them when choosing a hero or role model is ridiculous. If there were no such thing as racism this would still hold true - you've worked enough with kids to know this. That doesn't mean that they can only be inspired by folks of their own race, it just means that it's more likely. If we were all white then a child would be more likely to choose a role model with the same color hair or eyes.

The principle as a good educator saw an opportunity to influence the black kids in a positive manner and as a notsogood politician he fucked up. Not a big deal, but it could be if it's blown up enough. Blacks need to be careful with the reverse racism thing - you can't have it both ways.


Honibaz

Part of the reason this is true is because so many kids are taught to look only to those of their own color, have little experience with others. The south is a bit of an anomoly. In the south, you really have 2-3 parallel societies that only "mix" on occasion. There are many, many people who believe this is the "way things should be", but I don't. I believe we can do better, and the place to begin is with the kids.

Kids of ALL races should be exposed to adults from ALL races from an early age, as much as possible. Kids will certainly notice colors and races, but when you set a background that gives the message that everyone is to be respected and included, that is the message they get.

Sadly, this is absolutely not the case in much (not all) of the south. New Orleans is probably even less an exception than many places, because it was one place where blacks, historically, thrived. So, you have a mixture of conflicts.

The message this man gave was double. Not only did he continue to teach the black kids that they could "only" relate to people of their own race/culture, but he failed to give the white kids a chance to see another professional black person as well. So, instead of correcting stereotypes, he compounded them.

Yes, it's as if he's indicating "You can do well, like this guy, even though you're black."

I understand why this was done, that's a genuine black hero, I guess you could'nt take the whole school. While we profitted greatly from slavery in the UK I think we don't have the legacy here, we were a go-between, just made shit loads of money. You were the importers and have to deal with the legacy. With the US becoming more and more multi-cultural I'm fascinated to see how you deal with it. I know lot's of Americans, they're friends and relatives, from around the world. Good luck.

Neoteny wrote:

b.k. barunt wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. The idea that kids can only be inspired by folks of their own race is idiotic and very racist itself. This compounds problems, it solves nothing.

I disagree. I've done a lot of work with black children in New Orleans and they definitely respond more to the achievements of someone in their own race. So do white children. To suggest that children don't gravitate to someone "like" them when choosing a hero or role model is ridiculous. If there were no such thing as racism this would still hold true - you've worked enough with kids to know this. That doesn't mean that they can only be inspired by folks of their own race, it just means that it's more likely. If we were all white then a child would be more likely to choose a role model with the same color hair or eyes.

The principle as a good educator saw an opportunity to influence the black kids in a positive manner and as a notsogood politician he fucked up. Not a big deal, but it could be if it's blown up enough. Blacks need to be careful with the reverse racism thing - you can't have it both ways.


Honibaz

I do not question your experience with such things, but I can't stomach your entire hypothesis. I don't think children are inherently so fickle. I don't doubt that many children see skin color as important, but I imagine this is a reflection of a social misfire than a case of "that's just the way kids are." Hell, my little league football number was picked by its relationship with Herman Moore, and learning about George Washington Carver probably influenced me more to my chosen field than any other scientific figure. I'm the whitest person I know. I'm not saying that kids don't respond to race, but I don't think that it's inherent for children to be so responsive to physical groupings. I seriously doubt kids (a few might, but I don't think it's fair to call it a general rule) would pick role models based on hair or eye color if race were not a factor. Maybe I have my rose-colored glasses on though.

I have no comment really about the issue at hand, though I'm suspicious right off the bat just because of the topic.

My parents were anti-racism and the N word was as verbotten in my house as the F word. I grew up in San Jose, California. I never knew any Blacks until High School - more than half of my friends were Mexicans. I remember regarding my southern relatives as a bit ignorant because of their racism.

As a child i remember that my favorite comic strip was "The Phantom". He was the ideal badass hero to me - no one could touch the Phantom. It wasn't until a couple years of Phantom worship that the writer suddenly revealed his identity and he was black. I remember a serious feeling of disappointment - like wtf?? I didn't regard Blacks as inferior - they were just different. Suddenly the Phantom was harder to relate to and identify with. An Asian would have evoked the same feelings.

You say you were altogether different. I won't dispute that but i would suggest that if you took a poll you'd find that most children would feel like i did.


Honibaz

No, I am not altogether different. Slightly different, but that has more to do with age, and to some extent experiences.

However, I am speaking of kids today. My own brother, for example, is just enough younger than I to have never known a time when blacks were uncommon on TV, in books, etc. He went to school with few people of other races, but is very comfortable with people of many races.

My stepsons don't even give a second thought to the issues, except when among those who make it an issue and then .. it very much is one, but against whomever is making the issue.

Anyway, my point is not that we currently live in an ideal world. We don't. It is much better than 30 years ago. This man, despite his intentions, is feeding into what made it bad 30 years ago. It really does not matter why, the point is that if we give some kids advantage strictly because they are black, then we are being racist. To a point, this was justified for a time with affirmative action, because folks wanted to move quickly, etc. However, we have long since passed a time when that was OK. I realize that many blacks want to say "hey, things are not equal, we still need special programs". I disagree. I say "no, things are not equal, but my kids don't have the advantages that many other kids have, either". I don't blame race and neither should young black kids.

the "achievement gap" has to be reduced from a socio-economic point... not by giving kids who dont have good parents advantages. This is ridiculous .... I dont get riled up often (believe it or not) but this one could do it for me.

Exactly. ALL kids deserve the same decent treatment in public schools.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Exactly. ALL kids deserve the same decent treatment in public schools.

and part of that decent treatment is opening all educational field trips to the entire student body

silvanricky wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Exactly. ALL kids deserve the same decent treatment in public schools.

and part of that decent treatment is opening all educational field trips to the entire student body

I don't think that's feasible in many instances. There are a pretty fair number of field trips that are funded solely by fundraising by that specific class. This would mean the class would have to fundraise for everyone to attend...that hardly seems fair.

Again, if the field trip is funded by the school or by the taxpayers, that's a very different story.

could a mod pin this thread?

This is the first time in history in a none spam thread that everyone agreed... wow.