[Rules] Ability to Start Missed Turn Before Next Player

_big_easy_ · Post by **_big_easy_** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:28 am

How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:50 pm

Fruitcake wrote:Call me a party pooper, but I think this is not a good idea.

It panders to those who cannot be bothered to do anything on time. Yes some miss their turn because they have not been able to get to the site, but many are just bone bloody idle.

It also introduces more thought for strategy, and ensures the poor turn taker following, if he wants to take advantage of the bone idle twat who misssed his turn, then has to make sure he is standing by as soon as the 24 hours is up, thus making it a negative reward for those who take their turns, and a positive reward for those who miss.

Party-pooper.

I disagree with your point profusely. There was a huge tiff about deferred armies and how people who miss turns should not use it strategically to better the game. The same should apply for everybody else: You shouldn't be able to manipulate somebody else's missed turn to your strategic benefit., Or it becomes a double standard.

It will happen regardless, just like missing turns happens regardless, so we can't get rid of rewards entirely, but we should still limit them as much as possible.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:22 pm

insomniacdude wrote:Party-pooper.

I disagree with your point profusely. There was a huge tiff about deferred armies and how people who miss turns should not use it strategically to better the game. The same should apply for everybody else: You shouldn't be able to manipulate somebody else's missed turn to your strategic benefit., Or it becomes a double standard.

It will happen regardless, just like missing turns happens regardless, so we can't get rid of rewards entirely, but we should still limit them as much as possible.

Pooh pooh to your calling me a party pooper :-^

I should say that I think there should be some kind of stronger punishment anyway, but in the famous words of someone...
But we've done this do-si-do before, so I'll say nothing more beyond that :wink:

OK, let's get serious.

My argument is that we are rewarding those who are just too bloody lazy to think about other players. Yes this, in a way, punishes those who have a genuine reason for missing their turn, but isn't this why players are still able to pick up their just desserts when their turn next comes round?

I think those who are more diligent, should be rewarded, and yes perhaps they can use it to their advantage, I have done so on numerous occasions.

In short, those who miss turns are rewarded by having the facility to add, post attack, so there is already, in my humble opinion, enough for them.

EDIT: I do, however, think the idea by _big_easy_ has legs, if refined.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:32 pm

lackattack wrote:Very interesting. I'll put it as "Pending".

With respect, wouldn't your attention be better put to sorting the site problems out.

Arbotross · Post by **Arbotross** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:56 pm

maybe only give the person taking there (reclaimed) turn 5 minutes (which is nearly always enough time) to take there turn so that the players whose turn it really is doesn't have to wait up to an hour because some player who couldn't make there turn was being a dick

Also you can't plan on doing this to take your turns and it won't benifit the lazy people anymore than it would anyone else who has other commitments you can take your turn (say within 12 hours or something but that may be a bit too long) only if the next person hasn't and if you manage to take your turn, great but no one should get a time bonus because the person who is taking there turn shouldn't be given regular time to do it, that would be a penalization(granted not a large one) in itself

cicero · Post by **cicero** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:12 am

Fruitcake wrote:
lackattack wrote:Very interesting. I'll put it as "Pending".

With respect, wouldn't your attention be better put to sorting the site problems out.

"Without respect" appears to be what you meant.

Notwithstanding that Lack gets to prioritise his time as he wishes.
The time to mark this suggestion as 'Pending' is not going to greatly distract him from whatever his current priorities are.
Or if, as perhaps you meant, the time to actually code this would be a distraction that still doesn't mean that he isn't going to 'sort the site problems out' first anwyay.

:roll:

Mr_Adams · Post by **Mr_Adams** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:33 pm

_big_easy_ wrote:How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.

That was the original idea buddy, so how is this a "middle of the road" solution?

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:25 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
_big_easy_ wrote:How about a middle-of-the-road solution?

If you miss your turn, having had 24-hours to take it,
and the next player hasn't yet started, you can take your turn.

If at any point during you late-turn-taking the player whose turn it should be starts his turn,
your turn is automatically ended, similar to running out of time.

That way the person whose turn it actually IS can play exactly like normal,
and while yes, it sucks that you (the misser) didn't get to finish your turn,
you still had more opportunities than you'd have had if you just missed it, period.

Some potential for abuse, (waiting for the misser to start his turn before yours) but it's not really feasible,
and anywyas, he missed his turn in the first place, so cry me a river, right?
And you could jigger it so that if the misser hadn't yet deployed his armies,
they would revert back to "Deferred" status like the current setup.

That was the original idea buddy, so how is this a "middle of the road" solution?

As far as I can tell, the OP didn't suggest that the late player's turn would be cut short without warning if the scheduled player began his/her turn. I, for one, am opposed to this "middle-of-the-road" idea, as there it can easily be abused, and the OP cannot (as far as i can tell)

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:26 am

I have thought of another issue...

Say - 24 hours pass - P1 misses turn...

23 hours pass - P1 starts turn... thus blocking P2 for an hour... thus missing P2's turn...

P3 then starts a turn... P2 skips because P1 has blocked his last hour...

This is why I advocate the resetting of the clock after P1 has played their turn...

(Also I still like the rolling miss idea which would solve vacation games (See previous post by me))

C.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:33 am

The only way I'd back this idea is if the person who missed their turn only got 5 minutes to take their turn when they came on (alternatively make it like a speed game clock where time would be extended if someone was taken out). That way both players could see the game clock at 5 minutes or less, and it wouldn't put anybody out or extend the game, which is what all the options presented so far would do. Also, this way there's little potential for abuse by the player who missed taking much time out of the next player's alloted time.

The player who missed would have the option of taking their turn then and there very quickly, or waiting another round to go.

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:51 pm

yeti_c wrote:I have thought of another issue...

Say - 24 hours pass - P1 misses turn...

23 hours pass - P1 starts turn... thus blocking P2 for an hour... thus missing P2's turn...

P3 then starts a turn... P2 skips because P1 has blocked his last hour...

This is why I advocate the resetting of the clock after P1 has played their turn...

(Also I still like the rolling miss idea which would solve vacation games (See previous post by me))

C.

I agree

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:52 pm

wicked wrote:The only way I'd back this idea is if the person who missed their turn only got 5 minutes to take their turn when they came on (alternatively make it like a speed game clock where time would be extended if someone was taken out). That way both players could see the game clock at 5 minutes or less, and it wouldn't put anybody out or extend the game, which is what all the options presented so far would do. Also, this way there's little potential for abuse by the player who missed taking much time out of the next player's alloted time.

The player who missed would have the option of taking their turn then and there very quickly, or waiting another round to go.

This works, I think.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:34 am

Love it!

Wicked, you have a decent point, but there already is a turn limit -- one hour. Usually, folks don't take nearly that long unless the server is having issues or something happens in their real life to take them away.

Perhaps this could be implemented on a trial basis and, if this time issue is a problem, the late turn could be reduced -- say, to 1/2 hour or so.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:45 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:Love it!

Wicked, you have a decent point, but there already is a turn limit -- one hour. Usually, folks don't take nearly that long unless the server is having issues or something happens in their real life to take them away.

Perhaps this could be implemented on a trial basis and, if this time issue is a problem, the late turn could be reduced -- say, to 1/2 hour or so.

Yes I know that. ;-)

My point being if you're using borrowed time, you better be quick about it. Because the next player may only have so much time to take their turns, and if they have to wait on you, you better be quick about it. I can see the potential for abuse if say I notice player 2 is online and I run to that game to open my turn, then wait an hour to take the turn at my leisure. Since you're working on borrowed time, you shouldn't inconvenience player 2 AT ALL.

There should be a message when you enter the game that reads something like, "you've missed the 24 hours allotted for your turn. However, you have the option of playing your turn now in 5 minutes, or waiting for the next round."

trk1994 · Post by **trk1994** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:51 pm

If anything to this effect is implemented then I feel the "defered armies" b/c of missed turns rule should be done away with. A total of 36 or what ever hours should be more than enough to take a turn. If you still miss after that there is no reason to allow someone to recover missed armies. The grace period to take the turn is not really a bad idea but making too many concessions to slackers will get old real fast. I understand that real life gets in the way sometimes and that comment does not refer to those times. But as with anything in life there are rules and consequenes for not following them. I don't intend to sound mean just stating fact. If I miss then i should face the same punishment, whether it's my fault I missed or not.

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:04 pm

trk1994 wrote:If anything to this effect is implemented then I feel the "defered armies" b/c of missed turns rule should be done away with. A total of 36 or what ever hours should be more than enough to take a turn. If you still miss after that there is no reason to allow someone to recover missed armies. The grace period to take the turn is not really a bad idea but making too many concessions to slackers will get old real fast. I understand that real life gets in the way sometimes and that comment does not refer to those times. But as with anything in life there are rules and consequenes for not following them. I don't intend to sound mean just stating fact. If I miss then i should face the same punishment, whether it's my fault I missed or not.

I disagre.... I do no9t see much of a problem with the new deferred armies.

trk1994 · Post by **trk1994** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:13 pm

Well I don't see a problem with the deferred armies as the rule stands now. It was probably the fairest way to solve the missed turn issue. I just don't understand why so many concessions should be made for those who constantly miss turns. Some don't mean to and miss unintentionally but too many still use it as a tactic. It really wouldn't hurt anything to allow the extra time for the turn I guess, as long as it would never interfere with the next players turn.

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:29 pm

trk1994 wrote:Well I don't see a problem with the deferred armies as the rule stands now. It was probably the fairest way to solve the missed turn issue. I just don't understand why so many concessions should be made for those who constantly miss turns. Some don't mean to and miss unintentionally but too many still use it as a tactic. It really wouldn't hurt anything to allow the extra time for the turn I guess, as long as it would never interfere with the next players turn.

Right... I don't see any reason not top make concessions for those who miss turns as long as it doesn't interfere with those who don't... and so far I do not see that beiong a problem.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:08 am

Interestingly, not too many supporters.

I did think there was something to it at one point, but seriously, I think it cuts to the point of the matter as to whether there should be any further slack given to those who miss their turns. I am against this still.

I am fascinated that this is 'pending' with no poll. I was told by Twill, that for anything to go to a stage where lack would take note, a poll had to be carried out first, then the powers that be would see if it generated any interest. Yet on this thread it take just a few posters and bingo! lack arrives, thinks it is ok and pops a 'pending' to it. Where was the poll? Where was the long discussion? where were the thousands of viewings?

But the end result of ignoring his own rules (I assume Twill speaks with one voice to lack, that is effectively what it says in the forum rules) will be anarchy and no one taking any notice of any of the management authority, they will be able to do little about it if they want, at this point, to keep the whole thing going. Those who pay will leave fast, simple as that.

It is no wonder double standards are appearing across the board in this site.

Finally, regarding an earlier post:

cicero wrote:"Without respect" appears to be what you meant.

Notwithstanding that Lack gets to prioritise his time as he wishes.

Without respect is how we as consumers were treated for many weeks. I am not interested if the cost is perceived as great value, or any of those issues. If one has paid for a service, and that service does not happen, and takes some time to resolve while the benficiary of ones payment relaxes on holiday, then this is treating me without respect, not the other way round.

He does get to prioritise his time how he wishes, this is for sure, just as so do we as consumers get to decide whether the whole thing remains a venture. It is only a matter of time before another site close to this appears, this much is the nature of business. If the consumers here are teed off enough, they will leave, until no more cc. I am only stating a case for the consumer, something the fawning sycophants here do not seem to understand.

cicero · Post by **cicero** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:12 am

I wasn't confronting your right to hold the opinion you do, just pointing out that framing it "with respect" when clearly the contrary, as you have just confirmed, was the case was disingenuous.

[And, not that it was necessarily aimed at me, I don't consider myself a fawning sycophant. More a happy, reality-adjusted customer.

Just because I go to my local store one (or two) days of the year and they have no bread/milk/eggs/whatever doesn't mean I'm going to have a tantrum on the shop floor and force the manager and all the rest of the customers to listen ...]

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:15 am

Fruitcakes, if you're not here to discuss the topic of this thread, please take your rants elsewhere. It's not that we don't want to hear them, rather we'd like to keep this thread on topic to discuss this suggestion. You're welcome to create a separate thread in General Discussion to tell Lack how to run the site, just don't try to hijack this thread please. Back on topic...

Deferred armies aren't part of this suggestion either. They'll stay as is no matter if this gets implemented or not. Just because one person who missed a turn may get more than a 24 hour window doesn't mean everyone would; it's all dependent on how quickly the next player in line plays. Since that's not consistent, taking away the deferred armies wouldn't be consistent either, so they need to stay.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:26 am

wicked wrote:Deferred armies aren't part of this suggestion either. They'll stay as is no matter if this gets implemented or not. Just because one person who missed a turn may get more than a 24 hour window doesn't mean everyone would; it's all dependent on how quickly the next player in line plays. Since that's not consistent, taking away the deferred armies wouldn't be consistent either, so they need to stay.

I have absoloutley no idea what you are meandering on about.

I just stated that I thought enough slack was given to those who miss turns...where all the above comes from I cannot imagine. However, I notice within your post you say "Just because one person who missed a turn may get more than a 24 hour window doesn't mean everyone would"...well actually this would happen.

I still do not understand how you think I was suggesting we reduce the benefits already in place???

Oh, and I do not rant, I put a point of view forward where I am of the opinion a disservice has been done, I am sorry if this upsets you wicked, but a disservice was done.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:48 am

The deferred army discussion was direction at those discussing it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:13 am

Mr_Adams wrote:suggestion: Ability to start a turn after your "time is up" given that the next person has not yet started their turn.

reason for change: pretty obvious

So basically, I show up an hour after my time is up, but the next player hasn't started his/her turn yet. I should be able to salvage my turn by playing it now. This would make bus Saturdays less painful to these long term games....

as someone regularly caught by just missing the 24 hours i support this suggestion

barterer2002 · Post by **barterer2002** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:55 am

Another factor that this suggestion would affect is that it would allow the full hour for players who are running late. Currently if you sign on at the 23:55:55 mark you've got 5 seconds to take your turn and are better off missing rather than hurrying to deploy armies before you lose them.

Are there some potentials for abuse in this. Perhaps. However, who is it that misses turns. I would suggest there are three types.

1. Those who get too busy with real life and don't get online during a certain 24 hour period. (or who have too many games to check when they are online)
2. Those who aren't every coming back in any case
3. Those who are casually playing, checking CC every so often but not regularly once a day (seems to be the kind that misses two turns and then shows up for the third before missing another couple).

In reality, number 2 players are irrlelevant to this discussion.
Number 3 may be helped occassionally but the real benefits to this potential new policy will be those who fall into number 1. It seems to me that if the site is going to make people decide between having a well balanced real life and playing this game that real life will (and should) win out everytime. A little lienancy seems to me to be worth any potential problem with this one.

[Rules] Ability to Start Missed Turn Before Next Player

new turn status

Re: missed turn becoming not missed turn... [Pending]