America didn't land on the moon

[Pedronicus]

Give me some evidence of why the Russians didn't seize their best opportunity to win the cold war, and I'll listen.

I'm going to bed, talk tomorrow

[suggs]

You're taking your toys home with ya?

[cmckinney]

I think NASA has better things to do... you can see the moon with a good pair of binoculars

PS. How do you know there aren't any photos to date? I won't check myself, but I'm willing to bet there actually are pictures.

I'm all for sensible and reasonable discussion, but it's obvious the moonlanding was faked.

Now tell me...how is it obvious the moonlanding was faked?

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm I'd take a good look at that site. If you can bring up something that isn't explained on there, we might just have a real discussion with you crackpot conspiracy freaks.

And i quite frankly have never heard of them leaving stuff up on the moon (besides the flag) Show me some proof of that

[ParadiceCity9]

[bigimg]http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/design/foci/Earth.jpg[/bigimg]

^^ From Apollo 11

You are giving NASA evidence in a case against NASA? That's really going to stand up in a court of law isn't it?

Well I don't see how they could make this picture if they weren't on the moon...

[cmckinney]

[bigimg]http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/design/foci/Earth.jpg[/bigimg]

^^ From Apollo 11

You are giving NASA evidence in a case against NASA? That's really going to stand up in a court of law isn't it?

Well I don't see how they could make this picture if they weren't on the moon...

Oh they're probably on some other planetary body floating around there that looks strangely like the moon.

[InkL0sed]

I think NASA has better things to do... you can see the moon with a good pair of binoculars

PS. How do you know there aren't any photos to date? I won't check myself, but I'm willing to bet there actually are pictures.

I'm all for sensible and reasonable discussion, but it's obvious the moonlanding was faked.

Now tell me...how is it obvious the moonlanding was faked?

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm I'd take a good look at that site. If you can bring up something that isn't explained on there, we might just have a real discussion with you crackpot conspiracy freaks.

And i quite frankly have never heard of them leaving stuff up on the moon (besides the flag) Show me some proof of that

Ha, you obviously did not detect Snorri's poor attempt at sarcasm.

Suggs, I feel for you man. Some people in this place make me want to bang my head against the wall. That is, until I do...

[PLAYER57832]

I'm not going to be drawn into the fluttering flag, shadows in the photos, etc. All I'm saying is that in space flight, everything is weighed down to the last gramme, to calculate fuel required to get there and back. Engineering is all about making something as light as possible to do the job.
All unnecessary items will be left behind.
These items are still going to be on the surface of the moon and would be very easy to photograph based on the image that Andy posted showing the phoenix lander, heat shield and parachute.

Photographs of the remaining items of moon landings would be world famous.

NASA would know where the landings are, just as they knew where Phoenix landed.
It's not like trying to get a photo of a giant squid swimming in the deep ocean.
These things are static and their location would be known.

Whoever informed these things were left on the moon was wrong.

[jonesthecurl]

Pedronicus, I need you to define the extent of your disbelief (Suggs, yes this is kid gloves, and I absolutely understand your position, but I think we're actually getting somewhere here)

It seems to me that you believe there was an Apollo program, that it got teams of three astronauts at a time into space and into lunar orbit, and safely back home.

But that you think that the final act of a soft lunar landing wiht two blokes, and a return with a small payload, was even then impossible?

Is this your position, or do you think that the "hoax" happened earlier in the game?

And if anyone else out there is convinced of the "moon hoax" theory (see? I managed not to type "claptrap"), is this also the point at which you feel the deception started?

[HapSmo19]

And i quite frankly have never heard of them leaving stuff up on the moon (besides the flag) Show me some proof of that

They are there. So says NASA anyway.

[Dancing Mustard]

NASA would know where the landings are, just as they knew where Phoenix landed. ...
These things are static and their location would be known.

So just because one method of evidencing the moon-landings hasn't been conducted, it makes all other evidence invalid?

Sorry, but that doesn't wash. These photos would just be another nail in your conspiracy-theory's coffin. But their absence doesn't of itself prove your case, for that you need evidence of your own.

For you to actually prove your original proposition you need some evidence of your proposition, not just the absence of one possible piece of evidence on the part of the opposition (because we have plenty of other evidence that the moon landings happened). Otherwise this is just another "There was no plane hit teh pentagonz cos there is no picture of teh precise second dat teh plane was hitting itz lolololololol" argument.

Conclusion: We accept there's no pic of the moon landing site taken from earth. But you still have a whole lot of legwork to do to prove your point. Either get on with that, or this thread has served its purpose.

Do I get an answer?

[Pedronicus]

I'm not a total disbeliever in the moon landings, but there is a chance of it being faked to beat the Russians to the moon after Russia launched Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin into earth orbit to save face and maintain a huge NASA budget.

All I'm saying is that if America can send back colour pictures of the Phoenix lander on the surface of Mars in under 48 hours from Phoenix landing, then why hasn't any of the stuff left behind on moon missions been photographed?

Please don't think that in 1969-1972 NASA was making Lunar modules with a capability to place a 210Kg moon buggy back on board, and blast off from the surface of the moon.

They would of left stuff behind.

This stuff hasn't moved

This stuff hasn't ever been photographed.

Yes America launched huge rockets. Yes the rockets went into space. the moon landing part is a bit harder to swallow.

America invaded Iraq because military intelligence said there were WMD and congress raised enough cash to finance the war.
NASA needed to beat the Ruskies at something and needed a high profile mission to maintain huge funding.
It's all about money and when the money is in the trillions of dollars a coverup will be very well produced.

[firth4eva]

I don't think they landed on the moon. I have little evidence to support it and I'm gonna try not to argue over the internet about it.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually saw the moon landing in 1969. How real did it look then? Did it look like it could have been part of a film?

[jonesthecurl]

I'm not a total disbeliever in the moon landings, but there is a chance of it being faked to beat the Russians to the moon after Russia launched Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin into earth orbit to save face and maintain a huge NASA budget.

All I'm saying is that if America can send back colour pictures of the Phoenix lander on the surface of Mars in under 48 hours from Phoenix landing, then why hasn't any of the stuff left behind on moon missions been photographed?

Please don't think that in 1969-1972 NASA was making Lunar modules with a capability to place a 210Kg moon buggy back on board, and blast off from the surface of the moon.

They would of left stuff behind.

This stuff hasn't moved

This stuff hasn't ever been photographed.

Yes America launched huge rockets. Yes the rockets went into space. the moon landing part is a bit harder to swallow.

America invaded Iraq because military intelligence said there were WMD and congress raised enough cash to finance the war.
NASA needed to beat the Ruskies at something and needed a high profile mission to maintain huge funding.
It's all about money and when the money is in the trillions of dollars a coverup will be very well produced.

Yes there's still stuff up there. Signals are ocassionally bounced off a radar corner left at the Apollo 11 site to calibrate the instruments, or just for fun.

NASA is not going to put together an expensive program to provide "Proof" that the last tne per cent of the missions worked.

plenty of moon rocks around for that.

Look, these were not just for show, these missions. Lots of scientific data was returned, and questions anwered, questions which scientists and interested amateurs around the world were interested in. The answers were obtained on the lunar surface.

-and hey, if they faked an entire moon program with the technology available then, couldn't they have faked WMDs in the 21st century to justify the war?

What do you want? engine diagrams to prove they'd work, power-to=weight rations for a liquid hydrogen fuel load? Go look for them. I was following all this avidly at the time, and that information was in the public eye at the time. My best source (with lovely double-page colour photos too) was the Paris Match, oddly enough.

[PLAYER57832]

I'm not a total disbeliever in the moon landings, but there is a chance of it being faked to beat the Russians to the moon after Russia launched Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin into earth orbit to save face and maintain a huge NASA budget.

All I'm saying is that if America can send back colour pictures of the Phoenix lander on the surface of Mars in under 48 hours from Phoenix landing, then why hasn't any of the stuff left behind on moon missions been photographed?

Please don't think that in 1969-1972 NASA was making Lunar modules with a capability to place a 210Kg moon buggy back on board, and blast off from the surface of the moon.

They would of left stuff behind.

This stuff hasn't moved

This stuff hasn't ever been photographed.

Yes America launched huge rockets. Yes the rockets went into space. the moon landing part is a bit harder to swallow.

America invaded Iraq because military intelligence said there were WMD and congress raised enough cash to finance the war.
NASA needed to beat the Ruskies at something and needed a high profile mission to maintain huge funding.
It's all about money and when the money is in the trillions of dollars a coverup will be very well produced.

Your arguments can be summed up as " I don't believe it, don't see how it could happen, therefore it didn't".

Let's set aside the arrogance of assuming that you "know" facts that literally thousands of scientists (physicists, mathematicians, engineers, etc, etc.) don't ... and the unlikely probability that such a huge hoax would dupe not just the US population, but the old USSR and nations around the world.

All I'm saying is that if America can send back colour pictures of the Phoenix lander on the surface of Mars in under 48 hours from Phoenix landing, then why hasn't any of the stuff left behind on moon missions been photographed?

First, I don't believe your original premise is correct.... A lot of stuff WAS left, but not those things you mention. In fact, from what I have heard, even the flag was not actually left up there ... but on that, I could be wrong.

Second, even if it were left, each subsequent trip was a LONG way from the others. This was not necessarily the original intent, but the landings were separate.

Please don't think that in 1969-1972 NASA was making Lunar modules with a capability to place a 210Kg moon buggy back on board, and blast off from the surface of the moon.

And why on earth not? They did, they could and do.

They would of left stuff behind.

They did, though they left a great deal more in orbit. Some of it entered the moon atmosphere and burned up.

Again, you use the classic techniques of .. sorry, but idiot hoax theorists. REAL scientists hear these "original" theories every day ... and don't have the time to answer.
Classic hoaxes:
1. assume that some, moderate or poorly educated person can somehow see very basic flaws that no scientist has ever seen before.

2. These flaws are almost always on very BASIC and FUNDAMENTAL issues. Not issues that actually ARE questionable, but the ones that no one with real knowledge WOULD question.

Here? you claim that there would "have to" be pictures taken AND published in a public forum. never mind that this is the first time in ... well, let's just say "many" years of studying and hearing about this, this is the FIRST time I have EVER heard such a proposition, EVEN IF it were TRUE.... It never occurs to you that any such photos might still be considered classified, etc.

3. Come up with often wild theories for WHY these hoaxes would even occur. You allude to some theory of Russian competition ... BUT ignore the realities of the situation. Namely, that if the US DID commit this hoax, the Russians would have been quick to find it. You think the hundreds of Russian scientists couldn't figure out what you claim you have? ... even now? Come on .... get real!


________________

The REAL truth IS out there. But it tends to be much more boring, sometimes much harder to find even, than these interesting conspiracy theories. You are not the first, you will not be the last ... but that doesn't mean your ideas are any more credible than the old spagghetti monsters someone else alluded to in a different thread.

[Anarkistsdream]

Suggs - All I want is some photographic proof (from a satellite or hubble) of the stuff they left behind. It's going to be fairly large. Then I'll shut up.

And all I want is you to tell me where you found this info of what they supposedly 'left behind.' A CREDIBLE source, please...

[Anarkistsdream]

And i quite frankly have never heard of them leaving stuff up on the moon (besides the flag) Show me some proof of that

They are there. So says NASA anyway.

PROOF???? No? Thank, bye bye...

[Ruben Cassar]

I am a non believer as well. I think the moon landing was a hoax.

[jonesthecurl]

Suggs - All I want is some photographic proof (from a satellite or hubble) of the stuff they left behind. It's going to be fairly large. Then I'll shut up.

And all I want is you to tell me where you found this info of what they supposedly 'left behind.' A CREDIBLE source, please...

Look, I find it incredible that anyone can give a moments credence to the idea that the moon landings didn't happen...

But do you really believe they didn't leave anything behind? The Lunar Excuraion Module came in two parts: When they returned, they left behind the bit with the landing legs and the tanks which had contained the fuel they landed with. They left litter, body wastes, buggies, the plaque that says "we came in peace for all mankind", equipment which radioed back information for a considerable time after they left, etc. Not to mention the infamous flag.Go look it up.

Don't sidetrack this thread with a whole NEW source of nonsense, PLEASE.

[PLAYER57832]

And i quite frankly have never heard of them leaving stuff up on the moon (besides the flag) Show me some proof of that

They are there. So says NASA anyway.

PROOF???? No? Thank, bye bye...

NO, NO, NO ... you see, any credible source is biased, part of the big conspiracy. That is why these accusation are so obviously quite valid!!!!! Can't you see that??????

I mean, the ENTIRE scientific world dealing in any way remotely with space is IN ON THE CONSPIRACY!!!! That the evidence isn't there just PROVES the theory correct!

[firth4eva]

Why are we discussing this again?

[Anarkistsdream]

Suggs - All I want is some photographic proof (from a satellite or hubble) of the stuff they left behind. It's going to be fairly large. Then I'll shut up.

And all I want is you to tell me where you found this info of what they supposedly 'left behind.' A CREDIBLE source, please...

Look, I find it incredible that anyone can give a moments credence to the idea that the moon landings didn't happen...

But do you really believe they didn't leave anything behind? The Lunar Excuraion Module came in two parts: When they returned, they left behind the bit with the landing legs and the tanks which had contained the fuel they landed with. They left litter, body wastes, buggies, the plaque that says "we came in peace for all mankind", equipment which radioed back information for a considerable time after they left, etc. Not to mention the infamous flag.Go look it up.

Don't sidetrack this thread with a whole NEW source of nonsense, PLEASE.

I am not sidetracking it, because this is a major point of contention... The only two things I know of that were left behind was the flag and the rover... ONE rover, which had everything on it... They didn't leave litter and body wastes on the moon. Those things are commonly ejected when reentering the atmosphere and burn up.

There were not multiple 'buggies.' there was one... ONE... They did not leave ANY part of the lunar module. It can obviously be seen in pictures from when the craft lifted off the surface of the moon.

I don't know where you get your info, but it is wrong... Sounds to me like YOU are sidetracking the convo...

[jonesthecurl]

If you go to the NASA site for the 30th anniversary of the landings, you see a picture of the LEM, and a picture of the bit that comes back (leaving the base behind), you'llalso see the flag.

Nobody who believes the astronauts went to the moon has any doubt that stuff was left behind.

In addition to this the last bit of the LEM, after evacuation, would deliberately be crash-landed onto the lunar surface for futher seismic readings.

NASA will tell you the position of the landing sites, and the impact points, if you care to look.

[Anarkistsdream]

If you go to the NASA site for the 30th anniversary of the landings, you see a picture of the LEM, and a picture of the bit that comes back (leaving the base behind), you'llalso see the flag.

Nobody who believes the astronauts went to the moon has any doubt that stuff was left behind.

In addition to this the last bit of the LEM, after evacuation, would deliberately be crash-landed onto the lunar surface for futher seismic readings.

NASA will tell you the position of the landing sites, and the impact points, if you care to look.

And badda boom badda bing, proof for the nonbelievers...

[firth4eva]

Isn't the conspiracy theory against NASA?

[suggs]

Yes.