user named HermannGoering

[Qwert]

Fridrich fon Paulus is a war criminal for you .
What abouth Wernher von Braun? for America hes not a war criminal,but for Britain is he a war criminal?
"He whas creator of V2 rocket and whas responde for murder over 2500 people in London and wounded over 6000 people,but forget these wictim,we can use these guy"

[Zlorfik]

Herman Georing, the WWI air force fighter? What is offensive about him?

[owenshooter]

Herman Georing, the WWI air force fighter? What is offensive about him?

i truly hope this is dripping with sarcasm... ha!!!-0

[kletka]

Fridrich fon Paulus is a war criminal for you .
What abouth Wernher von Braun?

OK, you made me start. The notion of "war criminal" is BS. It was all started by ruskies in 1945 to dispatch the victor's justice as Stalin and his cronies had an impeccable legal system that found and convicted 15 millions of enemies of the people. The whole thing was shambles. Paulus was not even charged because he turned into commissar and admitted the nazis had an evil plan of destroying USSR. But some "real war criminals", mostly notably Keitel, were convicted and hanged. Keitel spent the whole war in the headquarters designing various strategic plans such as to capture Iran, etc... As far as I understand, he had nothing to do with holocaust and his only real crime was being a dickhead and kept insisting that German attack on USSR was a preventive self-defence Where did I hear that

As far as I understand, there is only one "war crime": not obeying orders of your superiors. Then you are just shot, and that is it

Most of the people nowadays have grown with the central concept of nationalism, a nation state, in their blood. For them it is the only acceptable behaviour to aid war efforts when your nation is at war. So there is nothing wrong with Wernher von Braun or Heisenberg or Oppenheimer. They aided their nation war efforts and they did not make decisions to launch their creations...

Luckily, with modern globalisation more and more people realize the absurdness of the idea of a nation-state. As far as I am concerned, being a jedi I am ready to defend Earth from cosmic invaders any time from now. Bring it on, Nute Gunray

[Gypsys Kiss]

My brother has the same name as a convicted IRA bomber/murderer, not a particularly famous one but several protestant Irish families know the name and would find it offensive he if joined up here and chose to use it as his username(he wont as he has no interest in boring online boardgames ). I know HermannGoering is not HermannGoerings real name, but it is just a name. And names cant hurt you.


And to the person who said Ghenghis Khan doesnt count because it was so long ago. How long do you have to wait before some can use names like Hitler, Himmler and Bormann

[HannibalSmith]

And to the person who said Ghenghis Khan doesnt count because it was so long ago. How long do you have to wait before some can use names like Hitler, Himmler and Bormann

22.3 years according to South Park.

Hmmmm, let's see...just about every local Mongolian BBQ on the West Coast of the US is named "Genghis Khan Mongolian Grill" -- Pancho Villa became funny somewhere in the 50's -- George W. Bush has always been funny -- Jessie James and John Dillinger became heroes while they were still robbin-and-a-killin -- Al Capone has his own CC territory (its ok to kill for illegal booze -- but not ok for CC to have a Drug Wars game) -- hmmmm....

There seems to be absolutely no consistency, after all, we're human beings.

So expect "Der FuherSchnitzel" Hot Dog/Braut Fast Food chain by the year 2167 or so.

HermannGoering the person is hopefully burning somewhere for eternity as we speak.

HermannGoering the CC player has been nothing but nice and honorable in every game that I've had the fortune to play against him. He does not profess to endorse anything remotely associated with Nazis or racism. He apologizes in game chat whenever someone says they are offended.

From Pharaoh to Khan to Caesar to King to Emperor to our modern day Chairmen, Presidents and Prime Ministers --

99% of our hailed Generals and Leaders throughout history are killers, murderers, looters, etc.

After all, war is hell.

To make one name acceptable and another not sounds EXACTLY like something the real Goering or Hitler would demand.

Freedom of Speech people!

If you don't like the name HermannGoering as a CC player then do something positive and utilize your right as an individual to put him on your ignore list like Benjikatisdead has done.

I know HermannGoering is not HermannGoerings real name, but it is just a name. And names cant hurt you.

Amen!

[MeDeFe]

A bump that is on topic and sensible? I am amazed.

[foregone]

To start with, the player HermannGoering seems nice enough and nothing I say should be seen as an attempt to flame him personally in any way.

The question here is not whether there has in history been similarly evil leaders whose names we should ban indiscriminately. It is whether or not the name itself offends a large group of people because of their recent past. Julius Caeser doesn't incite the same feelings as Verwoerd to most South Africans, or Poll Pot (spelling?) might to those of Chinese decent in certain parts of Asia (not that I'm sure it does). Certain atrocities are still sensitive subjects to some people.

Personally, it doesn't overly bug me...but this site isn't only a reflection of one persons opinions or world view. The name might bring up legitimate feelings of outrage for some people. Just because I have no strong feelings as regards it shouldn't make me expect that noone else reacts to it.

Do I think he should be made to change his name or anything else? I don't, but I have no interest in it either as one of those who are bugged by it or as someone who would have to decide. Hermann's explanation for his choice of handle sounds true and suggests he intended no offence, but I'm sure that would be less than true for many others who choose controversial handles.

And now I'll return to nursing my hangover...

[MeDeFe]

foregone, I think you might have missed HG's first post in this thread. There's one part that should be of especially great interest to you.

A player in a game alerted me to this thread - I never for one minute thought I could arouse such controversy over the use of a name (not a statement, but merely a name).

For the record I was very drunk when I joined CC (weren't we all?) and had intended to go by the handle of Erwin Rommel - a rather more dignified general - but got my names confused. Probably something to do with having just read a book on the subject and it was floating in my paralytic subconscious. So I apologize for that and for any offence it may cause or have caused.

I do find it remarkable that someone (Benjikat Is Dead) would put me on her ignore list - we haven't even played a game. I happen to have had a cat called Benji that was run over by my neighbour's chauffeur, so I find the moniker she is using to be particularly distressing. I would however be happy to show her the error of her ways by knocking the stuffing out of her in a game on here. Too bad she's shying away.

One correspondent wrote "Hermann Goering is a racist term for Asians". Really? That's a new one on me. I would have thought that living in Hong Kong half my life I'd have come across that term. And with a Japanese wife I can assure you dear reader I don't have a racist bone in my body.

I would be (more than) happy to change my handle - do the powers-that-be on CC allow such modifications? I'd be quite alright with 'Benjikat's A C**t'.

Thanks everyone. Hope that's cleared things up and I hope to see you all at the next rally

But the powers that be do not allow name changing because then everyone would do it.

[mandalorian2298]

Herman Georing, the WWI air force fighter? What is offensive about him?

His strategic short-sightedness and plain ol' stupidity has lost the Battle of Britain (and maybe the whole WWII) for the Axis. Because of this, all the people on CC who are still sad because Nazis hadn't won the the WWII (get over it already you girlyman ), hate Goering and find it insulting that someone had chosen "Hermann Goering" as his nick.

[Yvgni]

Prior to 1977, the term StormTrooper in the USA and some other countries was a term of "shock and awe" still.

Post 1977, it became a fairly derisive term and someone you laugh at. I'll always admire George Lucas (and also Steven Spielberg) for the ways in which they have denigrated icons of WWII Germany that used to intimidate people.

Just a slight tangent on names, symbols, and their power.

[Twill]

Actually, we do make exceptions to the "no name change" rule for offensive names and if Hermann would like to voluntarily change his name, we'd be happy to oblige in the name of public peace and happiness.

I've sent a PM off to him.

Twill

[suggs]

Absurd. If you find the name "HermanGoering" offensive, then you are far too over sensitive.
He is neither saying Goering was good or bad.
I'm not a Xian, and quite often find Christians offensive. So if someone comes in calling themselves ThePope -I assume I can complain and get him to change it?
The answer must be: of course not.
You allow this complaint to go through, and you set a very dangerous precedent.
It just becomes a subjective morass of opinions.
Obviously, someone saying ILoveHitler would be on dicey ground. But i think the difference is pretty obvious.

[Timminz]

Twill only said that herman would have the OPTION of changing his name, since some people find it offensive. I'm sure if people took offense the a user named ThePope, that user would get the opportunity to change it, if they wanted.

[suggs]

Cool. So if he doesn't want to change the name, then thats OK?
Sorry, misunderstood.

[Chariot of Fire]

"...would be on dicey ground..."

lol, best unintended pun ever

Thanks to a great many of you for your support and also kind words. For the sake of argument and further embarrassment I'm going along with a name change. It'll be good for me too - less prospect of being immediately attacked by players who are easily offended!

It did raise an interesting debate, the contributions to which were all very sensible and level-headed.

Cheers to one and all,

Hermann (probably for the last time)

[Fruitcake]

"...would be on dicey ground..."

Cheers to one and all,

Hermann (probably for the last time)

I feel like I have been transported back to the evening of October 15 1946 as Hermann, previously Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia, Plenipotentiary for the Implementation of the Four Year (economic) Plan, and designated successor to Hitler, bade farewell.

[suggs]

Well googled.

[Fruitcake]

Well googled.

of course....such a great invention, one learns something every day. I never knew he was a morphine addict.

[suggs]

Ummmm yeah, he became one near the end of the war.
But rather like the old "Hitler was a speed addict" they both got hoooked quite late on, when everything was going wrong for the lads.
THis is important, becuase otherwise people sometimes think that "Oh yeah, Hitler was off his head most of the time -no wonder he made such bad decisions" - which is rather letting the bloke off the hook.
Drugs had no, or hardly any, impact on the outcome of the 2nd WW.

[Ruben Cassar]

I don't agree with the name change. I believe in freedom of expression. I mean some people have the nick George Bush...maybe that's offensive for some Iraqi or Arab people on CC? We cannot have double standards. I also don't believe in trying to forget or erase real facts about our history by not talking about the subject matter or by banning the use of some words/signs/symbols.

I find the name inoffensive even though the Nazis threw more bombs on my country than any other place in the world per metre squared and tried to starve my nation to death.

[hulmey]

I don't agree with the name change. I believe in freedom of expression. I mean some people have the nick George Bush...maybe that's offensive for some Iraqi or Arab people on CC? We cannot have double standards. I also don't believe in trying to forget or erase real facts about our history by not talking about the subject matter or by banning the use of some words/signs/symbols.

I find the name inoffensive even though the Nazis threw more bombs on my country than any other place in the world per metre squared and tried to starve my nation to death.

Your going to compare George Bush with part of Hitler's machine? Come on ruben, i thought u were more sensible and educate than that!

[hulmey]

I don't agree with the name change. I believe in freedom of expression. I mean some people have the nick George Bush...maybe that's offensive for some Iraqi or Arab people on CC? We cannot have double standards. I also don't believe in trying to forget or erase real facts about our history by not talking about the subject matter or by banning the use of some words/signs/symbols.

I find the name inoffensive even though the Nazis threw more bombs on my country than any other place in the world per metre squared and tried to starve my nation to death.

You also admire and love italians even though they also murdered maltese people in WII, so really doesnt say much!

[Ruben Cassar]

I don't agree with the name change. I believe in freedom of expression. I mean some people have the nick George Bush...maybe that's offensive for some Iraqi or Arab people on CC? We cannot have double standards. I also don't believe in trying to forget or erase real facts about our history by not talking about the subject matter or by banning the use of some words/signs/symbols.

I find the name inoffensive even though the Nazis threw more bombs on my country than any other place in the world per metre squared and tried to starve my nation to death.

Your going to compare George Bush with part of Hitler's machine? Come on ruben, i thought u were more sensible and educate than that!

I am not comparing Bush to Hitler of course. There is a lot of difference. Bush is just a bad leader while Hitler was a tyrant. But it also depends on a person's perspective.

Do you honestly think that to many Iraqis or Arabs Bush is not like Hitler? If not go and "educate" yourself hulmey and stop hiding behind your anglo-american biases.

[Ruben Cassar]

I don't agree with the name change. I believe in freedom of expression. I mean some people have the nick George Bush...maybe that's offensive for some Iraqi or Arab people on CC? We cannot have double standards. I also don't believe in trying to forget or erase real facts about our history by not talking about the subject matter or by banning the use of some words/signs/symbols.

I find the name inoffensive even though the Nazis threw more bombs on my country than any other place in the world per metre squared and tried to starve my nation to death.

You also admire and love italians even though they also murdered maltese people in WII, so really doesnt say much!

Pointless. You are really very, very biased and not capable of going beyond your biases. I know that you love the British and hate (loathe?) Italians. No need to reiterate that. Bud did you know that just before World War II the British wanted to "donate" Malta to Italy as a friendly gesture? That's how much they cared about Malta...just a colony in their empire which they could dispose of when and how they wanted.

Come on hulmey. Besides even the British did bad things over here when they opened fire on the civilian population. Remember 7th June? The war has passed. It's been over for more than 60 years. Since then many things have changed. Learn to go beyond your biases or else you arguments will never be objective. Or do you mean that you still hate the Germans and the Italians for the events of World War II to this day and always will?