[Abandoned] - België: Battle of Languages

[MarVal]

UPDATE 01

Larger map (800x840)
[bigimg]http://www.aluy.eu/CC/Belgie_02.jpg[/bigimg]
Smaller map (600x630)

• The look of the map.
• The flags and Coat of arms.
• The textures.
• The Regions.
• The Provinces.
• The municipalities.

All feedback,suggestions and critisism are welcome.
So let us know what U think about the map Belgium so far.

Grtz
MarVal

[MrBenn]

Nice update. Here's my quick thoughts.

1. I'm struggling to read a lot of the text on the small map, and am a bit unsure about how the battle of languages is actually going to work?

2. It doesn't look like Brussels is named, and there's a territory (?) above Eeklo that is also unnamed... are these playable areas?

3. Some of the borders are different colours... are these indicating impassables? Or bonus regions?

4. The grey background looks a little flat and dull - perhaps you could add some sort of texture to it (in a similar way to the playable areas) while kepeing it in greyscale?

Despite those criticisms, I really like the look and feel of this map - keep up the good work

[LED ZEPPELINER]

with a subject like this, i can see a possible objective map, maybe like unite all languages or something

[the.killing.44]

with a subject like this, i can see a possible objective map, maybe like unite all languages or something

He said he was thinking of making the objectives to hold like x terts of each province.

Very nice update. How did you make that line pattern?

[onbekende]

I meant the green patch of land above Eeklo, Oost-Vlaanderen, which is Zeeland in Holland, seeing you got onl Belgium in land texture, its strange to not gray that out

[el-presidente]

WHy doesn't MarVal use his expertise and just put this on captainwalrus's thread then captain walrus can add it to his map and you two can work together to make it and both get the credit. I dunno but it seems like that would work best.
I agree totally, but how should we do that? Cause the graphics and regions aren't the way I like them.

Grtz
MarVal

The regions are pretty similar, he just didn't devide up the whole thing by the 1st level districts like you did. I actualy think he was going to (were related) but he said that if you already hold an entire half of the map then you have pretty much won anyway. I'm not sure if he would be open to working together but he probably would be.

[captainwalrus]

WHy doesn't MarVal use his expertise and just put this on captainwalrus's thread then captain walrus can add it to his map and you two can work together to make it and both get the credit. I dunno but it seems like that would work best.
I agree totally, but how should we do that? Cause the graphics and regions aren't the way I like them.

Grtz
MarVal

The regions are pretty similar, he just didn't devide up the whole thing by the 1st level districts like you did. I actualy think he was going to (were related) but he said that if you already hold an entire half of the map then you have pretty much won anyway. I'm not sure if he would be open to working together but he probably would be.

I would gladly work with MarVal on this on. And I agree that they are pretty similar, exept fot the coloring. I did think about having the larger administrative districts but I never thought of them as objectives. THe problem with this then becomes brussels which is in it's own administrative district. It would be immensly more easy to hold brussels than any other region even if you make busssels an inset map.

[MarVal]

Nice update. Here's my quick thoughts.

1. I'm struggling to read a lot of the text on the small map, and am a bit unsure about how the battle of languages is actually going to work?
Your correct, struggle with that one. Shall changed it, but from now on I will only update the Larger map regularly. And when the graphics looks better, then finally I shall update the Small map. I think at this stage, the texture is minimize against the graphics.

2. It doesn't look like Brussels is named, and there's a territory (?) above Eeklo that is also unnamed... are these playable areas?
In the new update Brussels will be named and also Nijvel (below Brussels).
Above Eeklo is Dutch ground (Zeeuws-Vlaanderen), just like onbekende says. In the new update it will be grey.

3. Some of the borders are different colours... are these indicating impassables? Or bonus regions?
See the new legend on the new update (this evening). Hopefully it will clear things out.

4. The grey background looks a little flat and dull - perhaps you could add some sort of texture to it (in a similar way to the playable areas) while kepeing it in greyscale?
Its on the new update.

Despite those criticisms, I really like the look and feel of this map - keep up the good work
Thanks Mr. Benn.

with a subject like this, i can see a possible objective map, maybe like unite all languages or something

He said he was thinking of making the objectives to hold like x terts of each province.
Thanks, the.killing.44 for the explanation.

Very nice update. How did you make that line pattern?
Thanks and I did with Adobe Photoshop CS.

I meant the green patch of land above Eeklo, Oost-Vlaanderen, which is Zeeland in Holland, seeing you got onl Belgium in land texture, its strange to not gray that out
Ha, ha, ik dacht dat je wat anders bedoelde. Zal gewijzigd worden.

I would gladly work with MarVal on this on. And I agree that they are pretty similar, exept fot the coloring. I did think about having the larger administrative districts but I never thought of them as objectives. THe problem with this then becomes brussels which is in it's own administrative district. It would be immensly more easy to hold brussels than any other region even if you make busssels an inset map.
Then I shall PM you about about working together.
About Brussels, at start of the game it will be Neutral with a lot of neutral armies on it.

Grtz
MarVal

[MarVal]

UPDATE 02

Larger map (800x840)
[bigimg]http://www.aluy.eu/CC/Belgie_03.jpg[/bigimg]

• Changed the layout of the map.
• Changed the Legend of the Regions into Languages Communities.
• Added the flags of Belgium and Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft Belgiens.
• Changed the textures of the neighbor countries.
• Added grey color area above Eeklo.
• Added the legend of the Provinces.
• Added the legend Brussels.
• Added the name of the municipality Nijvel.
• Added Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft Belgiens (so called, Ostkantone)

All feedback,suggestions and critisism are welcome.
So let us know what U think about the map Belgium so far.

Grtz
MarVal

[MarVal]

Added the Colors of the Provinces in above UPDATE.

Grtz
MarVal

[Ogrecrusher]

The idea behind this map reminds me of what mibi did in Iraq with city loyalties.
Maybe you could do something along those lines, but a bit more original

[Riazor]

I know it's still early in development, but i'll give you my critical comments already

There's a 4-way point in Oostende-Brugge-Diksmuide-Roeselare
Are the province borders (im)passable?
Are the rivers (im)passable?
Ostkantone nor Brussels are provinces of their own
In the legend of the provinces, mostly flanders, the colors are a bit too similar
Territory borders in the southern region (hills) are not very visible
DDutch territory names in Wallonia: Nijvel (Nivelles) and Bastenakon (Bastogne)


That was it... this may become an interesting map if the objective and gameplay is kept fairly simple.
Good luck

[onbekende]

DDutch territory names in Wallonia: Nijvel (Nivelles) and Bastenakon (Bastogne)

Aarlen => Arlon also then

[MarVal]

The idea behind this map reminds me of what mibi did in Iraq with city loyalties.
Maybe you could do something along those lines, but a bit more original

Thanks Ogrecrusher, I will add your idea as well.

I know it's still early in development, but i'll give you my critical comments already

There's a 4-way point in Oostende-Brugge-Diksmuide-Roeselare
Are the province borders (im)passable?
Are the rivers (im)passable?
Ostkantone nor Brussels are provinces of their own
In the legend of the provinces, mostly flanders, the colors are a bit too similar
Territory borders in the southern region (hills) are not very visible
DDutch territory names in Wallonia: Nijvel (Nivelles) and Bastenakon (Bastogne)


That was it... this may become an interesting map if the objective and gameplay is kept fairly simple.
Good luck

Hello Belgium mate,

In the new update the 4-way is gone. About impassable borders we shall discuss when I have the final borders fixed (I'm working on them now). And about the names of the provinces, off course, stupid I didn't changed that earlier. Thanks for seeing it.
About the provinces, I have a new look in the new Update (coming soon).

Aarlen => Arlon also then

Thanks Belgium Clanmate,

Also overlooked at it.

Grtz
MarVal

[LED ZEPPELINER]

the diff between the language communities, the provinces, and the territories is a little confusing, maybe use a little more opposites, and different boldness

[MrBenn]

OK, I think I've matched up the language/province mini-map to the darker brown borders on the map... It would be nice if there were some more visual clues that helped define the bonus regions... I'm assuming that they're bonus regions?

[MarVal]

the diff between the language communities, the provinces, and the territories is a little confusing, maybe use a little more opposites, and different boldness

Thats correct, LED ZEPPELINER. But in the new update (later this evening, European time) you shall see (I hope) the difference between them.

OK, I think I've matched up the language/province mini-map to the darker brown borders on the map... It would be nice if there were some more visual clues that helped define the bonus regions... I'm assuming that they're bonus regions?

Maybe, maybe not, its depending on how we shall put the strategy on it, with neutrals, conquering a Language community and so on. When the new update arrives I have added more stuff on it, just like cities, treaties and so on. And from there we can see how we can place the strategy on it. Cause it has a little bit (just a little bit) of the strategy on Feudal War mixed with Iraq. Not equal, but I hope I can let you see it with the new image.

Grtz
MarVal

[herschal]

Are there no bonuses?? It seems to me you have a well conceived idea of what you want as far as the language and culture goes but what you have on the first page is very lacking.
[list=]1 Rivers- The rivers seem very weird since thy are outside of the borders as opposed to taking place of the borders like normal impassibles usually do.
2 Is Brussels a territory? can you hold it? It is not clear.
3 The colors of the borders makes it hard to follow. I seem to only be able to fully focus one one level of borders at a time.
4 Is the language border an Impassible?
5 Like I said before, Are there no bonuses??
6 What are the names outside the map area (like mouscron)
7 What is the objective. You said it was to hold a language group but this seems weird. What group is Brussels in? What about the German speaking part? That would be much easier to hold. If there are bonuses, Wouldn't it just be that if you hold an entire language then you would be getting so much troops already that you pretty much win already so adding the objective is not necessary?
8 The colors you use to represent each language is inconsistent[/list]
I will say more later.

[MarVal]

Are there no bonuses?? It seems to me you have a well conceived idea of what you want as far as the language and culture goes but what you have on the first page is very lacking.
[list=]1 Rivers- The rivers seem very weird since thy are outside of the borders as opposed to taking place of the borders like normal impassibles usually do.
2 Is Brussels a territory? can you hold it? It is not clear.
3 The colors of the borders makes it hard to follow. I seem to only be able to fully focus one one level of borders at a time.
4 Is the language border an Impassible?
5 Like I said before, Are there no bonuses??
6 What are the names outside the map area (like mouscron)
7 What is the objective. You said it was to hold a language group but this seems weird. What group is Brussels in? What about the German speaking part? That would be much easier to hold. If there are bonuses, Wouldn't it just be that if you hold an entire language then you would be getting so much troops already that you pretty much win already so adding the objective is not necessary?
8 The colors you use to represent each language is inconsistent[/list]
I will say more later.

Thanks herschal for the interest and your questions.

1. All territorial jurisdictions connecting with the River can attack each other.
2. Its a Region and yes you can hold it, if you conquering all the % languages.
3. I hope with the new update (below this post) it looks better for your eyes.
4. We must discuss what we should do about the function of that border.
5. As I already said to Mr. Benn, maybe.. maybe not, ... (See that post).
6. See the new update (below this post).
7. See the "Victory gains by:" in the above right corner of the image in the new update (below this post).
8. I've changed it, can you see it?

Grtz
MarVal

[MarVal]

UPDATE 03

Larger map (800x840)
[bigimg]http://www.aluy.eu/CC/Belgie_04.jpg[/bigimg]

• Again changed the layout of the map (such as colors & backgrounds).
• The borders are now more similar as the real borders in Belgium.
• Moved the textures of "België" and "Battle of Languages".
• Added the Dutch Treaty (reinforcement X armies to the city Antwerpen if conquered).
• Added the French Treaty (reinforcement X armies to the city Namur, if conquered).
• Changed the colors on all the legends in the left corner below.
• Added the textures of "Victory gains by:" & "Rivers" on the right.
• Changed Region Bruxelles/Brussel into the % of languages spoken in that Region.
• Added the cities Antwerpen, Namur and Eupen.
• Added Abbreviations.
• Changed all the borders.
• Added army "Circles".

Discussions:

1. About the Provinces borders (black lines).
   They are impassable borders IMO.
   But were should we make crossovers?
2. About the largest language border (yellow lines).
   It is an impassable border (except the river) IMO.
   But were should we make crossovers?
3. Adding German Treaty for the city Eupen?
4. Neutrals?
   
   • All the % languages in the Region Bruxelles / Brussel.
   • All the cities.
   • All the treaties.
   • All territorial jurisdictions.

All feedback,suggestions and critisism are welcome.
So let us know what U think about the map Belgium so far.

Note:
- I shall write more about strategy later this week.

Grtz
MarVal

[MrBenn]

- I shall write more about strategy later this week.

Personally I think you should focus on getting the gameplay/strategy side of things worked out before making a multitude of graphical adjustments

[LED ZEPPELINER]

wait are thos red/ multi colored places (like brussels) actuall territories

[MarVal]

Personally I think you should focus on getting the gameplay/strategy side of things worked out before making a multitude of graphical adjustments

A little bit true, MrBenn

But with the basic graphics (on the latest update), you have a visual view when I explain later this week the strategy

wait are thos red/ multi colored places (like brussels) actuall territories

If you read the Legend below the map, you see that its the % of languages spoken in Bruxelles/Brussel.

Grtz
MarVal

[Riazor]

You missed army circles on:
Comines-Warneton
Dutch treaty

Maybe i missed it, but how can you attack the treaties?

What are territorial jurisdictions? Just the territories?

"All territorial jurisdictions connecting with the River can attack each other." Im not sure i understand... can you rephrase that?

Do cities connect to every territory they border, or just the main territory they are in? Likewise, can eg. Antwerp (territory) attack Sint-Niklaas or does it have to go through Antwerp (city) first?

Abbreviations... ar eyou sure you cant fit more letters in? If not, id suggest abbreviating:
SN or St-Nikl: Sint-Niklaas
Dmd: Dendermonde
Diksm: Diksmuide (?)
Roes: Roeselare (?)

Are the Ostkantone part of the provinces they are in, or are they a seperate bonus. If the latter is true, its not really correct, but it might be too confusing otherwise...

In the legend for Bruxelles, the last one should read: French and non-Dutch, imo.

The big yellow border isnt in the impassable legend yet.


Well that are my comments for now, perhaps i'll see where the passages over the borders may be best. Is highways an idea, or will it be too cluttered then? (cities on a highway could attack adjacent cities on the same highway?)

[sherkaner]

I think it's a bit complicated already, highways wouldn't work.

I guess jurisdictions just means cities and countries, so territories/regions.
And I guess the treaties will be something like bordering all (flemish for dutch treaty, French for french treaty) jurisdictions on the border, with a small autodeploy and a larger neutral force at the start.

Speaking from a game perspective: Luxembourg and Oost vlaanderen would be the dead weight territories atm, not much action there (relative to the other countries). And Nivelles a 1-territory bonus? That would make 3/4 good positions, treaties, Nivelles and maybe the german part (depending on the bonus). Could be very nice. Goals never really adds alot to the map, if you get one you are strong enough to finish everyone anyway.