Darts

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:48 am

Conquer Club Darts

STATUS:
Reignited for discussion on all facets of the map - graphics, gameplay, etc, etc..
Updated - 1st August 2011

Small map
[bigimg]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9343/dartsmapv1rasterisedsm.png[/bigimg]

Large map
[bigimg]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3599/dartsmapv1rasterised.png[/bigimg]

What you need to know...
* Territiories: 82
* Continents: 20
* Graphics: Silent Killer
* XML & Programming: TBC

Gameplay:
* On a standard board, there are 82 beds, this map will provisionally have 82 terits.
The numbers 1-20 have 4 beds each, so each number becomes its own continent.
A provisional bonus of +1 for each continent held.
* Attacks from each continent can only be made by going through the outer bull, I'm also considering allowing attacks
be made around the perimeter of the outer ring (Double)
*Continent names will follow their numbers, and terit names are outlined below...

Ill use the number 20 in the first 4 cases here...

1. Double 20
2. Outer 20
3. Treble 20
4. Inner 20
5. Outer Bull
6. Bullseye

SK

Tupence · Post by **Tupence** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:57 am

Sounds like a great idea to me, I was thinking about a Dart Board map myself. +3 for three trebles of the same colour sounds good, and maybe +2 for three doubles of the same colour, as they have fewer borders than the trebles? And maybe +1 for holding all four territories of a number?

Having the bullseye as the objective reminds me of the St. Patrick's Day map, which I loved. What would happen with the outer bullseye? This would be quite a crucial territory in the game

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:08 am

Tupence wrote:Sounds like a great idea to me, I was thinking about a Dart Board map myself. +3 for three trebles of the same colour sounds good, and maybe +2 for three doubles of the same colour, as they have fewer borders than the trebles? And maybe +1 for holding all four territories of a number?

Having the bullseye as the objective reminds me of the St. Patrick's Day map, which I loved. What would happen with the outer bullseye? This would be quite a crucial territory in the game

Just looking at the map again and its probs best to break it down into the colours on the board and work from there.

Red >> 21 terits >> 10 Doubles, 10 trebles and the Bull
Green >> 21 terits >> 10 Doubles, 10 trebles and the outer Bull
Black >> 20 terits >> All single scoring terits
White >> 20 terits >> All single scoring terits

So I s'pose whats important should get the bonuses, like in real darts.

Its possible to have a very easy bonus system.
But its also possible to make the bonus system very sophisticated.

I just dunno, the possibilities are endless!!

Tupence · Post by **Tupence** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:46 am

I think the map has a lot of potential for being individual, as if we stick with the 3 trebles etc being a bonus, none of the territories will be next to each other, making it quite unique

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:53 am

I think it could be a fun idea... I agree that there are many possibilities for creating bonuses, based on both the color combinations and the different winning formulas of various dart games.

There are going to be some practical matters to figure out, such as what you call the territories, the size of some of the beds on the small map, and how you deal with the four-way intersections (i.e. where four beds come together, which attack which?)

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:46 am

oaktown wrote:There are going to be some practical matters to figure out, such as what you call the territories, the size of some of the beds on the small map, and how you deal with the four-way intersections (i.e. where four beds come together, which attack which?)

Ok, Ill address the terit names first...
I think the easiest way is after the number.. All terits, except for the 2 central circles will contain their respective bed numbers around the board.
The image below is the best way to illustrate this...

Ill use the number 20 in the first 4 cases here...

1. Double 20
2. Outer 20
3. Treble 20
4. Inner 20
5. Outer Bull
6. Bullseye

If theres another way to distinguish between the 2 black/white beds than shoot away, but I think upper and lower is possibly best.
With the visible numbers on the board, I do not think we actually need to insert the names onto the board at all, just the army circles.

___________________________________________

The maximum size for a small image is 630x600 I believe...
This is what it looks like...
[bigimg]http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7296/dartssmall.png[/bigimg]

If we were to just go with placing army circles, and not the names, which I dont think theres a need for, then imo there is ample room in each bed.

_______________________________________________________

I think the biggest questions that need solving right now are...
1. The bonus system to incorporate.
Yes, there are many ways we can go, but if we can get some suggestions maybe we can allow for a poll???

2. How we deal with the 4-way cross sections as Oaktown stated...

Tnx for the feedback so far guys
SK

brutalsleeper · Post by **brutalsleeper** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:51 am

Instead of upper and lower how about outer and inner.As upper and lower could be confusing at the bottom and sides of the map.

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:55 am

brutalsleeper wrote:Instead of upper and lower how about outer and inner.As upper and lower could be confusing at the bottom and sides of the map.

Already better!!
Tnx m8
Ill update the list above

Tupence · Post by **Tupence** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:47 pm

I agree with outer and inner. I think those are the right names for the board, I can't imagine there's a clearer way of labelling them.

RedBaron0 · Post by **RedBaron0** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:49 am

If it's code-able, this could be an interesting objective map. Each area has a certain point value, if you can gain the appropriate value AND say hold the bull you would win. I think it would fit very well into the dart board theme since usually you are trying to get to a certain point value(501 or 300) playing darts. Each lane has a point value equal to the lane number value x 7(1=7; 2=14; 3=21, etc.) giving a total board value of 1470 points. Of course the backfire is gonna be there is tons of different combinations that make, for example, 501. Unless there is a way to code adding up territory values to equal a victory condition, its kinda a mote point. T'would be interesting though...

It'd be really interesting to see play if someone was OVER the point victory condition. :-k

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:19 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:If it's code-able, this could be an interesting objective map. Each area has a certain point value, if you can gain the appropriate value AND say hold the bull you would win. I think it would fit very well into the dart board theme since usually you are trying to get to a certain point value(501 or 300) playing darts. Each lane has a point value equal to the lane number value x 7(1=7; 2=14; 3=21, etc.) giving a total board value of 1470 points. Of course the backfire is gonna be there is tons of different combinations that make, for example, 501. Unless there is a way to code adding up territory values to equal a victory condition, its kinda a mote point. T'would be interesting though...

It'd be really interesting to see play if someone was OVER the point victory condition.

This is an interesting idea.....

Can one of the Code-Masters comment on this, can this be done??

Tnx Red

CH

ManBungalow · Post by **ManBungalow** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:43 pm

This would be really beautiful with Mogul-style army counts !
IE. Holding treble 20 would give you +60, holding the double 20 would give you +40!

Sort the attack routes out and this could be epic

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:28 pm

I made an attempt at a Dart map back in the day. Check out the thread for possible inspiration: viewtopic.php?f=242&t=4757&p=76233&hilit=Darts#p76233

squishyg · Post by **squishyg** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:53 pm

Cool idea. Maybe there could be random deployment of troops, given that many people who play darts are randomly hitting the board when they throw.

Maybe you could get a choice to aim (choose where you deploy), but you lose armies to gain accuracy.

Just make sure the gameplay is different than 8 Thoughts. The boards share certain similarities, so you don't want them to be too similar in terms of gameplay.

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:05 pm

ManBungalow wrote:This would be really beautiful with Mogul-style army counts !
IE. Holding treble 20 would give you +60, holding the double 20 would give you +40!

This has given me another idea........ :lol:

How about using combinations as bonuses...
"Out shots" are the big thing in darts, and by achieving an Out shot, a player can win a game, or leg as its commonly known.

The biggest out shot possible in darts is 170, but this combination can only be finished by hitting Treble 20, Treble 20 and Bullseye... the 2 treble 20's are the problem here.
But we can use the next highest "Out shots" as bonuses...

Ill try to explain.... :?

After 170, the next highest combination for an Out Shot is 167...
We can apply a specified bonus to any player holding all 3 beds that make this Out Shot.
In this case, the 3 beds are..
Treble 20... Treble 19 & the Bullseye
As the bullseye is incorporated in this Out Shot, and the Bullseye being possibly a very important bed to hold, then the 167 Out Shot would carry the biggest bonus, as I'd like to see other "Out Shots" on the board.

The possibilities are....
167 >> Treble 20... Treble 19 & the Bullseye
128 >> Treble 18... Treble 14 & Double 16
121 >> Treble 17... Treble 10 & Double 20
72 >> Treble 16 & Double 12
61 >> Treble 15 & Double 8

The reason I chose these combinations is because each one can be held simultaneously by different players.
Other combinations clash, such as the 170 Out Shot... it requires 2 x Treble 20's, which wouldn't work.

These bonuses can easily be signified on the board with different coloured stars, and explained in the legend.

Here is a mock-up image of what Im trying to convey....

[bigimg]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg77/firestarter8_photos/ConquerClub%20Maps/dartsstardemo.png[/bigimg]

Anyway, this, as Ive said, can be an aside set of bonuses to whats decided on in relation to continents.
Also, if the stars looked bad, other option may be available, such as highlighting the wire around each bed in a signified colour.
Or simply changing the colour of the combination beds to a signified colour.
Or... insert a different texture/pattern into each combination bed to differentiate the bonuses.???

Thoughts gentlemen???

___________________________________________________

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion ManBungalow, I went off on a tangent there... apologies.
The only slight I see with your suggestion is that everyone will be going for the bigger numbers, I dont think it would make for great gameplay, but thats just my opinion.
Tnx for the input MB.

SK

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:08 pm

sully800 wrote:I made an attempt at a Dart map back in the day. Check out the thread for possible inspiration: viewtopic.php?f=242&t=4757&p=76233&hilit=Darts#p76233

Tnx for the link Sully, I was unaware this had been tried before...
I hope you dont mind me taking a shot at this.....??
:oops:

I had a look at that thread, and skimmed over some of the idea's there, there were one or two that looked interesting, but Ill revisit it over the next day or 2 and read it properly.
Cheers
SK

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:12 pm

squishyg wrote:Cool idea. Maybe there could be random deployment of troops, given that many people who play darts are randomly hitting the board when they throw. Maybe you could get a choice to aim (choose where you deploy), but you lose armies to gain accuracy.

This along with Manbungalows suggestion got me thinking of the "Out Shot" bonuses.
But I like the accuracy part... could you expand a little more on this?
Tnx for the suggestion Squishyg
SK

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:11 pm

Silent Killer wrote:
sully800 wrote:I made an attempt at a Dart map back in the day. Check out the thread for possible inspiration: viewtopic.php?f=242&t=4757&p=76233&hilit=Darts#p76233

Tnx for the link Sully, I was unaware this had been tried before...
I hope you dont mind me taking a shot at this.....??

I had a look at that thread, and skimmed over some of the idea's there, there were one or two that looked interesting, but Ill revisit it over the next day or 2 and read it properly.
Cheers
SK

I certainly don't mind you taking over, I gave up on that project years ago. However it can be helpful to view someone else's work to get new ideas. Yours is already far better than mine was graphically, and there are many new gameplay options that could make this map fun.

JOHNNYROCKET24 · Post by **JOHNNYROCKET24** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:17 pm

good idea

squishyg · Post by **squishyg** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:07 pm

Silent Killer wrote:
squishyg wrote:Cool idea. Maybe there could be random deployment of troops, given that many people who play darts are randomly hitting the board when they throw. Maybe you could get a choice to aim (choose where you deploy), but you lose armies to gain accuracy.

This along with Manbungalows suggestion got me thinking of the "Out Shot" bonuses.
But I like the accuracy part... could you expand a little more on this?
Tnx for the suggestion Squishyg
SK

Example:
At the beginning of your turn you get the following message and options:
You get 3 darts for holding 4 territories.
Choose one:
Throw all three darts at the same time (deploy randomly)
Or
Aim for your target(s) with two darts (choose where you deploy)

Perhaps you would always get 30% less troops/darts, for being able to choose where you deploy (aim)

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:48 pm

squishyg wrote:Example:
At the beginning of your turn you get the following message and options:
You get 3 darts for holding 4 territories.
Choose one:
Throw all three darts at the same time (deploy randomly)
Or
Aim for your target(s) with two darts (choose where you deploy)

Perhaps you would always get 30% less troops/darts, for being able to choose where you deploy (aim)

I think we can incorporate accuracy somewhere.. in real darts its necessary to be accurate.
But from a gameplay perspective with these suggestions, with so many terits on the board, this may make the game alot longer... shortening how many deployment armies you get one way, or through random deployment.
Its a good idea, but I think it would work better on a smaller map...
Any other thoughts re: accuracy?

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:35 pm

I'd like to get this into the Map Foundry as soon as possible to get down and dirty with it, so Im gonna update the first post of this thread with bonus and provisional gameplay details.
Ill also add in some spec to the actual map.

So, I guess, see the 1st post!!

In a few hours....

MrBenn · Post by **MrBenn** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm

The map looks good. I think there's some good ideas here - your primary task needs to be to work out how to get the gameplay to work.

For now, I'll move this into the drafting room, where you can try and hammer that out a bit more thoroughly

Silent Killer · Post by **Silent Killer** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:47 pm

Thank you Mr. B!

Onward to the gameplay part!!!
=D>

______________________________________

Ok, so the current gameplay as it stands is pretty straight forward, but I'd like to develop it into something that possibly isn't currently used in any other maps.

I think there is potential for a unique stand alone gameplay structure.

BUT... I do not know anything whatsoever about coding or programming, so any idea's I have may be obsolete due to limitations with coding.
Thats where I need the people who are "in the know" for suggestions and ultimately develop a gameplay structure for this map.

Suggestions please???

SK

RedBaron0 · Post by **RedBaron0** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:13 pm

Good looking start!

Graphical:

The board is beautiful, couple things though: the checker border overlaps the dart board on the bottom and on the left side, shove the board over and up a little so the border doesn't touch it. You'd have to move the bonus explanations up on the other side to accommodate the shift. The darts under 6 and 11 look a bit tacked on, I suggest removing them, and since there should be some darts on there somewhere, how about an errant dart or 2 thrown into wood paneling? I don't think the stars fit on the board, at least not the way they are. You could make the stars be your army "circle" for that territory and would give a more subtle look, like I said, the board is beautiful, and the stars just draw the eye away from it.

Gameplay:
Explain the movement to me a little bit. The way I interpret it is that , first you can attack up and down a lane, simple enough. Diagonally, from the 20 for example, from top down the territories that can be attacked are as follows:

Double 20: Outer 1 & 5
Outer 20: Double 1 & 5, and Triple 1 & 5
Triple 20: Outer 1 & 5, and Inner 1 & 5
Inner 20: Triple 1 & 5

Oh, would the entire inner ring be able to attack the Outer Bull?

A little explaining for everything will be most helpful, since the best thing will be NOT to put arrows on the board showing lines of attack!

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