Manual Initial Troop Placement

[roZero]

the troops should be set one by one without the fog

[trinicardinal]

the troops should be set one by one without the fog

The problem with that is the length of time it would take to start a game... not saying its not an option but there might be many who wouldn't want to wait so long before starting a game.

[istanbul39]

I will forever be remembered as the guy who was first to ever win a manual game:


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=5598531

2009-09-16 05:27:03 - ofthe won the game

who are you again ???

[bedub1]

Awesome update Lack...

This will go Great with Sully's World Cities...










Oh... and as a special way to say thanks,
several of us pitched in to rent you some sexy ninja turtles for the evening...

great idea!
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96942

[KraphtOne]

You wanna talk about a tailor-made way to allow noob farming...

I host a freestyle game, "for fun sake we'll say oasis" :0)

Of Course FOG ON

I Sit For 20 hours or so and wait for the other guy to place his troops...

Then BAM i dump my 32 troops to start, drop my 7 and go take the grand oasis...

I noob would not know to do this...

An Even Better example is world 2.1 I can wait till said chump deploys his troops and when he's not around i deploy mine then start my turn with the huge territory bonus and wipe him out before he can start his...

And the list goes on and on and on...

Now gl gang lets see who can get to 8000 points first...

[demonfork]

You wanna talk about a tailor-made way to allow noob farming...

I host a freestyle game, "for fun sake we'll say oasis" :0)

Of Course FOG ON

I Sit For 20 hours or so and wait for the other guy to place his troops...

Then BAM i dump my 32 troops to start, drop my 7 and go take the grand oasis...

I noob would not know to do this...

An Even Better example is world 2.1 I can wait till said chump deploys his troops and when he's not around i deploy mine then start my turn with the huge territory bonus and wipe him out before he can start his...

And the list goes on and on and on...

Now gl gang lets see who can get to 8000 points first...

If you burned through all of the big neutrals to take grand oasis on your first turn there would be no way that you would hold it, your opponent would just come in behind you and mop up.

[Daryth]

You wanna talk about a tailor-made way to allow noob farming...

I host a freestyle game, "for fun sake we'll say oasis" :0)

Of Course FOG ON

I Sit For 20 hours or so and wait for the other guy to place his troops...

Then BAM i dump my 32 troops to start, drop my 7 and go take the grand oasis...

I noob would not know to do this...

An Even Better example is world 2.1 I can wait till said chump deploys his troops and when he's not around i deploy mine then start my turn with the huge territory bonus and wipe him out before he can start his...

And the list goes on and on and on...

Now gl gang lets see who can get to 8000 points first...

If you burned through all of the big neutrals to take grand oasis on your first turn there would be no way that you would hold it, your opponent would just come in behind you and mop up.

Yep, just tried it. Saw a player [player]Godsav[/player] clearing up on Oasis using exactly this tactic, so I deliberately moved towards Grand Oasis so I could 'mop him up'. Didn't count on the clickable maps factor which allowed him to take the 3 Grand Oases in the last 4 seconds and that was game over. It's really pathetic.

It was bad enough with farmers hitting on new members under Auto settings, but this will be a total turn-off for anyone joining the site and I wouldn't be surprised to see new paying memberships drop off as a result.

[Hemohomeboy]

So does that mean that people can attack you without your having placed any armies and only having 1 on each territory?

Hemohomeboy

[00iCon]

+1

[luapie]

Always a new tool, but upgrading the server.... no it will cost me to much bucks and i wannah have money money money. I paid for a product which has been changed, so i'll get my money back??

I monitor processing times and they look rather good. It sounds like there could be a problem on your end, and this is not the place to discuss that. Please submit a support ticket or ask around in the forum for advice.

or a problem on your end, your processing monitor doesnt work well.......

[SFX!]

So does that mean that people can attack you without your having placed any armies and only having 1 on each territory?

Hemohomeboy

In a casual game you get 24hrs to deploy your troops. If you don't all your regions will be one's.

[prismsaber]

Bad bad idea to implement this, at least in it's current state. It will only allow mediocre players with questionable integrity to clog the first page of the scoreboard. We are already seeing the first effects of this. This concept should be totally abandoned.

[AndyDufresne]

I don't think this feature update should totally be dropped. It does seem like there are some kinks and changes to work out. Lack will be reviewing the posts and the arguments made for and against changes to reassess what fixes and additions are needed and desired.

But I definitely think this option shouldn't totally be dropped.


--Andy

[lackattack]

Okay, seems like Initial Troops might need some tweaking. It seems the main complaint is that people deploy big stacks and the first player has too much of an advantage. So, I wrote a script to quantify the advantage, and I invite you all to help me make sense of the results in this topic: First Player Advantage?

[jammyjames]

yeah i found a little advantage gainable from this..

[AndyDufresne]

Okay, seems like Initial Troops might need some tweaking. It seems the main complaint is that people deploy big stacks and the first player has too much of an advantage. So, I wrote a script to quantify the advantage, and I invite you all to help me make sense of the results in this topic: First Player Advantage?

I encourage you all to check this out.


--Andy

[Crazyirishman]

I don;t know if this has beem mentioned or not, but in a freestyle game with more two players, the person who deploys last shouldn't be able to go first. I was surpised when I was allowed to do this, and can see it potentially being abused. Game 5602662

[ender516]

An important question which I don't think has been discussed yet was raised in a Foundry topic
(look here: Re: The Third Crusade version 18 [D,Gp] Analysing graphics):
How does manual placement affect starting positions and their troops? Are the starting positions as normal and available for manual initial troop placement just like other territories? It seems the most likely situation, but it is nice to see it confirmed in writing.

[Lucarilover240]

Hehehe... This is gonna be awesome...

[pmchugh]

There is a bug with missed turns. It gives you 3 troops for missing the deploy stage.

I don't see this being abused much, but perhaps in ass doodle or something but it doesn't seem right.

[mattattam]

I want there to be an option, perhaps in speed games, where you can have manual placement and it is not fog and you get to go back and forth each placing 1 or 2 men at a time until all your men are placed.

[lackattack]

There is a bug with missed turns. It gives you 3 troops for missing the deploy stage.

I don't see this being abused much, but perhaps in ass doodle or something but it doesn't seem right.

That's a bug alright. Fixed

Complete farce. Check out Game 5600334 where I haven't even had a turn yet (other than being first to deploy, which took me 12 cautious minutes as I converted all my 1s into 2s to prevent them being cannon fodder and stacked up on cannons in each of the 4 corners ready to pummel the oppo on my turn). Imagine my delight when I return to the game only to find out the oppo has made his deploys (obviously dropping 4 great stacks) AND then gets to take first turn (since when could the player who ended Round 1 - as it says in the log - start Round 2?).

I don;t know if this has beem mentioned or not, but in a freestyle game with more two players, the person who deploys last shouldn't be able to go first. I was surpised when I was allowed to do this, and can see it potentially being abused. Game 5602662

Fixed. Double turns are now blocked after manual troop placement in freestyle games. I think that the manual troops option is now balanced. Based on the the stats I posted earlier, with manual troops there is only an advantage to playing first in freestyle games, and this advantage is relatively small (similar in size to the first player advantage in sequential games, which has existed for years). Now that you can no longer take a double turn to manipulate the advantage, I think we'll be ok.

I want there to be an option, perhaps in speed games, where you can have manual placement and it is not fog and you get to go back and forth each placing 1 or 2 men at a time until all your men are placed.

Yes, that would be good for speed games, I'll add it on the to-do list as a separate feature. The manual troops option discussed here is designed to work for casual games so we won't be changing it to sequential (you'd have to wait 2 months to start a Conquer Man game!) and since it therefore has to be freestyle we won't be dropping the fog (otherwise nobody would want to drop first!)

How does manual placement affect starting positions and their troops? Are the starting positions as normal and available for manual initial troop placement just like other territories? It seems the most likely situation, but it is nice to see it confirmed in writing.

If the map xml specifies the quantity of troops on a starting position, like on City Mogul, they cannot be placed anywhere else. If the quantity is not specified, the starting positions are initialized with 1 troop each and the other 2 troops can be deployed anywhere.

[AndyDufresne]

Good looking bug fixes.


--Andy

[jleonnn]

WooHoo! I'm now on a 1 month CC ban cuz my exams are around the corner. Can't wait to get back(I can't play, just browse).

My mum banned me, not lack, mind u

[AAFitz]

[]

Fixed. Double turns are now blocked after manual troop placement in freestyle games. I think that the manual troops option is now balanced. Based on the the stats I posted earlier, with manual troops there is only an advantage to playing first in freestyle games, and this advantage is relatively small (similar in size to the first player advantage in sequential games, which has existed for years). Now that you can no longer take a double turn to manipulate the advantage, I think we'll be ok.

Actually, I think this just changes who gets the first turn.. instead of it being the creator, its the joiner who has the advantage

It is at least a little more fair though...but still the person who goes first is nearly always going to win on most maps. It will just be player two now.

To be honest, I almost think the only way to really fix the double turn on freestyle manual 24h is to not have the option... No person who knows about it would ever set one up, so the only people who do wont know any better, and will be taken out most of the time...

I just dont see how it can be evened out....unless...both people have to hit start at the same time to start the game, but the mechanics of that are pretty tough I would think.

Im only talking about 1v1 games though... On multiplayer the advantage is nill...so maybe it doesnt matter, and eventually no one will be foolish to set up a game with those settings...and I highly suggest blocking new recruits from being able to set them up...because it will not only mean certain death, but also a delay in the first turn.