Internet Anonymity

[thegreekdog]

I've been reading through some of the C&A and General Discussion fora recently and I've noticed a growing trend. Namely, there is a trend of people being complete assholes to others. This trend is ultimately disturbing to me, mostly because newer/inexperienced players (or players looking for help) are the targets of this assholery. I question whether the same comments would be made in real life to the people (I suspect the answer is no). I understand that there is leniency with respect to these types of comments on this site (and others), but without provocation these types of comments are destructive and unnecessary.

An example from youtube.com really caught my attention. I unfortunately no longer have the link, but there was a young boy (probably 10 or 11) who posted a video of himself talking about Ken Griffey Jr. and how great a baseball player he was. Among the comments was a wonderful sentence by a user that said, "f*ck off you piece of shit. Get a real life you fat f*ck." It angered me that someone (whether a teenager or an adult) would decide this was a good idea and a worthwhile thing to post.

Is anyone else disturbed by this sort of thing? Does anyone see this kind of internet ridiculousness popping up in real life?

[Frigidus]

[thegreekdog]

As usual, Penny Arcade his the nail on the head.

[Woodruff]

I've been reading through some of the C&A and General Discussion fora recently and I've noticed a growing trend. Namely, there is a trend of people being complete assholes to others. This trend is ultimately disturbing to me, mostly because newer/inexperienced players (or players looking for help) are the targets of this assholery. I question whether the same comments would be made in real life to the people (I suspect the answer is no). I understand that there is leniency with respect to these types of comments on this site (and others), but without provocation these types of comments are destructive and unnecessary.
An example from youtube.com really caught my attention. I unfortunately no longer have the link, but there was a young boy (probably 10 or 11) who posted a video of himself talking about Ken Griffey Jr. and how great a baseball player he was. Among the comments was a wonderful sentence by a user that said, "f*ck off you piece of shit. Get a real life you fat f*ck." It angered me that someone (whether a teenager or an adult) would decide this was a good idea and a worthwhile thing to post.
Is anyone else disturbed by this sort of thing? Does anyone see this kind of internet ridiculousness popping up in real life?

And yet, you're a fan of SultanofSurreal, a prime example of this?

[MeDeFe]

And what do you suggest be done about it? Instead of IP addresses people have to leave their real name and address whenever they post something on the internet? No, probably not.

[Frigidus]

I personally like being able to be more frank with people on the internet is a good thing. I couldn't imagine having a passionate argument with someone IRL (I'm fairly withdrawn), but being able to hash things out online without worrying about how I present myself has allowed me to better understand and fine-tune my arguments on various subjects.

EDIT: This is, of course, different than people that insult those that slight them in any way. That is, depending on the circumstances, hilarious or highly annoying.

[thegreekdog]

Sultanofsurreal is completely different because one should not take what he says seriously. He's also funny (but that's not really relevant).

My suggestion is that people should learn some manners and think about what they are typing before they type it. I know, that's a lot to ask.

[AndyDufresne]

It's like writing angry anonymous letters to people/newspapers. Except multiplied by a billion.


--Andy

[thegreekdog]

It's like this... Newbie1 (a new player) gets yelled at by Jim (an experienced colonel) because Newbie1 is lucky and is winning. Jim uses various epithets in the game chat. This is not even the worst part (in my mind). Here's the worst part - Newbie1 reports Jim. Within minutes, four or five people post responses to Newbie1's complaint that includes derisive ridicule and foul language (among other things).

This is similar to me going to the police station to report what I mistakenly think is a crime and then having a random defense attorney, two cops, and a judge start screaming at me that I'm an idiot.

I'm just letting off some steam here. I don't like bullies. I don't like internet bullies.

[john9blue]

I personally like being able to be more frank with people on the internet is a good thing. I couldn't imagine having a passionate argument with someone IRL (I'm fairly withdrawn), but being able to hash things out online without worrying about how I present myself has allowed me to better understand and fine-tune my arguments on various subjects.

EDIT: This is, of course, different than people that insult those that slight them in any way. That is, depending on the circumstances, hilarious or highly annoying.

Agreed. I can be an asshole on CC, but I'm nice IRL, I promise.

Speaking of which, CC really does give you debating experience for real life. In bio lab we were debating the Texas board's decisions about teaching evolution. This one guy wouldn't shut up so I raised my hand, and within two minutes of debate, he was going on about "stupid Texas Republicans" and something about Sarah Palin. (?) These forums are like debate team, but more intense because you can be an asshole online.

Thanks CC!

[thegreekdog]

Also, don't get me wrong. I like flaming, I loved b.k. barunt, dancingmustard, and KLOBBER posts, but there is a time and place for that, and it's not in something like C&A or General Discussion where these poor bastards just want to ask a question and get an answer, not be ridiculed simply for being new or not understanding the complex rules and caste systems of this website.

[laughingcavalier]

I hear this Greekdog.
First post I made on CC was a sug in the Sugs&Bugs (one that got implemented lately). Someone was so gratuitously rude to me about it, I didn't make another post for a year.
The habits learned out of this internet anonymity are really nasty. On a gaming site like this, you get a lot of testosterone & bragadocio, not tempered with much experience of the world, and guys do say stuff here they wouldn't dream of saying to someone's face. It can take all the fun out of a game.

[john9blue]

I hear this Greekdog.
First post I made on CC was a sug in the Sugs&Bugs (one that got implemented lately). Someone was so gratuitously rude to me about it, I didn't make another post for a year.
The habits learned out of this internet anonymity are really nasty. On a gaming site like this, you get a lot of testosterone & bragadocio, not tempered with much experience of the world, and guys do say stuff here they wouldn't dream of saying to someone's face. It can take all the fun out of a game.

The best way to deal with these people is to not take what they say seriously. They sure aren't taking it seriously, so why give a shit about what they think?

[bedub1]

Kevin Smith once spent 2 years of his live arguing with people on the internet about how the movies he makes aren't totally retarded. He finally stopped because he realized it's a waste of time. People are idiots...it's just easier to find them on the internet than in real life.

[notyou2]

Whenever you have a group of people of like mind then the assholes rise to the surface. Strength in numbers and all that. Add the internet and anonymity to the equation, then it is grossly multiplied.

Very few kids today have internet etiquette. The same rules for talking to people in real life or on the phone should be applied. Respect for others even if they have differing points of view is also a cornerstone of etiquette.

[neanderpaul14]

I've been reading through some of the C&A and General Discussion fora recently and I've noticed a growing trend. Namely, there is a trend of people being complete assholes to others. This trend is ultimately disturbing to me, mostly because newer/inexperienced players (or players looking for help) are the targets of this assholery. I question whether the same comments would be made in real life to the people (I suspect the answer is no). I understand that there is leniency with respect to these types of comments on this site (and others), but without provocation these types of comments are destructive and unnecessary.

An example from youtube.com really caught my attention. I unfortunately no longer have the link, but there was a young boy (probably 10 or 11) who posted a video of himself talking about Ken Griffey Jr. and how great a baseball player he was. Among the comments was a wonderful sentence by a user that said, "f*ck off you piece of shit. Get a real life you fat f*ck." It angered me that someone (whether a teenager or an adult) would decide this was a good idea and a worthwhile thing to post.

Is anyone else disturbed by this sort of thing? Does anyone see this kind of internet ridiculousness popping up in real life?

Personally as a lifelong asshole I totally prefer to be a rude bastard to someone's face so I can see and judge my target's reactions better, it is much more satisfying that way.

[Army of GOD]

Well you can all go f*** yourselves.





'Cause it feels nice and relieves stress. I love you all!

[Snorri1234]

I personally like being able to be more frank with people on the internet is a good thing. I couldn't imagine having a passionate argument with someone IRL (I'm fairly withdrawn), but being able to hash things out online without worrying about how I present myself has allowed me to better understand and fine-tune my arguments on various subjects.

The solution here is beer. When you're in a bar and discussing something you know nothing about and don't understand beer will help you not care about any of that and argue like a total dickbag.

[Incandenza]

Frigidus wins the thread so breathtakingly as to be potentially unprecedented.

It's simple: some people are assholes. Some people are restrained from being assholes by societal norms. Freed of such, cloaked in the welcoming anonymity of the internet, they join the in-all-phases-of-life assholes in being assholes on said internet. Not much can be done about curbing assholish behavior, save for adopting really restrictive policies that would really take the fun out of teh intarwebs. Hell, every so often, I'm a bit of an asshole on the internet, and I'm perfect in every way.

[MeDeFe]

Frigidus wins the thread so breathtakingly as to be potentially unprecedented.

It's simple: some people are assholes. Some people are restrained from being assholes by societal norms. Freed of such, cloaked in the welcoming anonymity of the internet, they join the in-all-phases-of-life assholes in being assholes on said internet. Not much can be done about curbing assholish behavior, save for adopting really restrictive policies that would really take the fun out of teh intarwebs. Hell, every so often, I'm a bit of an asshole on the internet, and I'm perfect in every way.

But Snorri's point is also valid, we could just supply everyone with beer and make sure people attain a basic level of asshole in RL that is similar to the level commonly attained on the internet.

[sexyflanders]

Personally as a lifelong asshole I totally prefer to be a rude bastard to someone's face so I can see and judge my target's reactions better, it is much more satisfying that way.

Hit the nail on the head.


I am a competitive fighting game player. And I gotta tell you guys.

I haven't heard anything here to match what we say to each other daily; online or irl. Not even close.
The worst of us are from Cali, Texas, and where I live.
I go to tournaments and most of us are totally nice people, but many talk crazy shit. I've gotten drunk and berated 3 guys from Massachusetts for over an hour, just talking out of my ass. In their hotel room in Vegas.
But if you need a couple bucks to get something to eat at a tournament because your broke, even if we've never met I'll hook you up unless I actually don't like you.

I am totally racist towards my mom too. She's half American Indian.

Most people have a hard time getting used to me.

[got tonkaed]

I am pretty much the same if I get involved in discussing an issue with people in either forum...though i admit i get some weird looks when i start reciting links for pdfs or research on the rare occasion irl.

[PLAYER57832]

It's like writing angry anonymous letters to people/newspapers. Except multiplied by a billion.


--Andy

No, its not. While some newspapers allow people to withhold their names and such, the almost never allow publishing of letters without a real name and address attached. There is a mound of law and legal precedence to dictate the boundaries. In almost all cases, people who present truly libelous and certainly threatening information, even just plain rudely insulting (you idiot is usually OK, you %$##^ is usually not) commentary is often not allowed.
When something "slips through", the originators, if not the publishers can be held responsible.

This is absolutely NOT the case on the internet. Further, even if the original poster was limited, there are no limits at all on who can obtain this information and then spread it around.

The worst part is that too often people only THINK they are anonymous. I have taken great pains, here. However if someone really wanted to, they probably could find out who I am anyway. My "security" is that no one is really that interested in me.

This becomes a real issue, though with kids and young adults. It becomes an issue not just because they often lack the ... er "restraint" (or healthy paranoia) of older folks, but also because the potential for something said in a spurious moment to come back and "haunt" them in profound ways is so much greater.

More than a few people have been fired or denied jobs/scholarships because of plain stupidity posted on the internet. From a newscaster who participated in a wet T-shirt contest, to teens simply mouthing off or being "stupid". Even in cases where teens have actually done criminal stuff -- beating other kids up on tape, etc, you have to wonder if this should be available to anyone for the rest of those teen's lives. I certainly want criminality prosecuted, but if a 15 year old is encouraged by her friend's mom to beat up another girl, is that something that should follow that girl, regardless of later life changes she makes, when she is 40, with kids of her own?

Then you have the problem of people posting stuff on other people. A 10 year old boy, mad at his sister, can take a picture of her in the shower and post it. Before parents or anyone else can even know about it, it can be all over the internet. The only laws are regarding child porn, which means both that the 10 year old can potentially be convicted of being a predator AND really means there is no practical way to remove those nude photos.

Worse, a boyfriend can videotape his girlfrien in "compromising" situations or a man can do that in a divorce case (pre-divorce). ... etc.

[PLAYER57832]

Frigidus wins the thread so breathtakingly as to be potentially unprecedented.

It's simple: some people are assholes. Some people are restrained from being assholes by societal norms. Freed of such, cloaked in the welcoming anonymity of the internet, they join the in-all-phases-of-life assholes in being assholes on said internet. Not much can be done about curbing assholish behavior, save for adopting really restrictive policies that would really take the fun out of teh intarwebs. Hell, every so often, I'm a bit of an asshole on the internet, and I'm perfect in every way.

Are you really SURE you are anonymous?

I don't have the time, but I would be willing to bet that someone who really wanted could track down who you are just from what you have posted here. Definitely if you have tied this username to any other sites.

[AndyDufresne]

It's like arguments between people that go in the "Two Cents Worth" of local newspapers. Except multiplied by a billion. "--Eastside Angry Citizen"


--Andy