Conquest of London [v13]

[rattius]

You could have asked me as well, as I do check this quite often, but I guess thats redundant now...

[danoprey]

It's just easier this, that way I don't have to bother you every time!

What do people think of the gameplay/starting positions?

[rattius]

lol, it didn't bother me, it was good to feel part of my idea coming to life, seeing as i can't make the maps, and have no skills to help in the make of it, other then saying how i feel on your design changes

[danoprey]

Well that's helping!

[danoprey]

Can anyone foresee any gameplay issues?

[rattius]

I personally can't see any trouble with the game play, though the best test is always to play the actual map...

[natty dread]

Gameplay seems fine to me at this point. I'd say you're ready for a draft stamp.

[thenobodies80]

[bigimg]http://www.zroam.com/london12init.png[/bigimg]image for the page

Some suggestions and critics:

• Skill is required to hold a bonus , maybe to much for some of them. I think that some zones are too hard to hold, for example Holborn can be attacked by 9 different regions, the whole City zone has 14 different borders...
• For bonuses, with train stations give +1 for each station. Some lines are too long and with huge values.
• Lines aren't easy to follow, for example the metropolitan line isn't clear between BAK and GRO; the northern line disappear after KIN and pop up again after WAR
• Increase trasparency of army circles (only the white)
• Some starting positions are better than others, for example BAK has an easy bonus with regent + london served on a silver plate. EAR and NOT have to fight very soon in the game, one of them is probably out of the game in the first turn with only 1 troop between them.
• I don't think that it's possibile to hold the yellow line. If you can hold it you have already won the game or not?

On the whole it's an interesting idea.
Looking forward your next update

Nobodies

[CCismylife]

I think it's an excellent map, and the idea is great

Check out mine: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=99911

[danoprey]

Skill is required to hold a bonus , maybe to much for some of them. I think that some zones are too hard to hold, for example Holborn can be attacked by 9 different regions, the whole City zone has 14 different borders...

It does have a lot. There are still only 3 regions to hold, people may be able to get to it easily to attack it, but it only has to be defended at 3 points.

For bonuses, with train stations give +1 for each station. Some lines are too long and with huge values.

Train stations give +1 for each station? If that's a suggestion, it's not a bad idea. Maybe a +1 for every three, as they are quite easy to get. I agree the lines are impossible to hold, I think it's probably best to scrap them as a bonus and do something like this.

Lines aren't easy to follow, for example the metropolitan line isn't clear between BAK and GRO; the northern line disappear after KIN and pop up again after WAR

They do get a little messy in some places like you mentioned. It doesn't actually matter though, if we scrap the line bonuses, as the stations can still attack each other down a different line. If we scrap the line bonus then it's just artwork.

Increase trasparency of army circles (only the white)

Will do. I'm using smart objects for the army circles and they have the numbers in, that's why they're temporarily faded too.

Some starting positions are better than others, for example BAK has an easy bonus with regent + london served on a silver plate. EAR and NOT have to fight very soon in the game, one of them is probably out of the game in the first turn with only 1 troop between them.

Hmm, some are slightly better, especially that one. However, BAK doesn't really have anything easy to go on to after that, and that bonus is only small compared with the others. Hmmm, not sure what to do about EAR and NOT, there's not really another obvious starting point. I doubt they'd get wiped out first go, as it'd be 5v4 in total, but they are a bit close.

I don't think that it's possibile to hold the yellow line. If you can hold it you have already won the game or not?

Most probably. I only made a it a victory condition as it will be nearly impossible to hold as a bonus. I assumed people would just fight to the death, but they could manage to hold it if players weren't paying enough attention. Perhaps this should be scrapped along with all the other line bonuses.

[rattius]

Maybe a starting position should be moved from 'NOT' to 'CHL'?
Yes it is nearer the center of the map, but moves it away from the other starters

[danoprey]

I did want to keep all of the starting points at the edges, the idea being that you are commuting in to london, arriving at one of the main stations and then going around London from there. I guess the idea isn't as important as the gameplay though.

I've been really busy at the moment, will make some adjustments and get a new draft up in the next few days.

[danoprey]

OK, I've taken off the tube line bonuses now as they were just too hard to hold.

Let's go to the Main Foundry and talk gameplay

[natty dread]

IMO the tube lines should have some purpose gameplay-wise. Otherwise there's really no excuse to having them on the map and you might as well remove them altogether. But I'd rather see you come up with some way to implement them to the gameplay.

[danoprey]

I agree, but they will be impossible to hold, so there is no point having them as continent bonuses.

There is still a point in having them, you have to use them to get from continent to continent. Like real life you have to get the tube then attack someone then get the tube somewhere else then attack them...

Perhaps something like Route 66 would work, adjusted territory bonuses. +1 for every 2 tube stations over 4.
e.g.
4 = +1
6 = +2
8 = +3
10 = +4 etc.

Thoughts?

[rattius]

Like real life you have to get the tube then attack someone then get the tube somewhere else then attack them...

Sorry, this bit made me laugh, a wonderful image of London

Perhaps something like Route 66 would work, adjusted territory bonuses. +1 for every 2 tube stations over 4.
e.g.
4 = +1
6 = +2
8 = +3
10 = +4 etc.

Thoughts?

And this seems like a good idea, though I think a number greater then 4 should be used due to the vast amount of stations on the map, and the NEED to use them to get around, maybe starting at 8 or 10?

[danoprey]

That was a bit tongue in cheek.

Yes, the bonuses for the lines needs to be readjected. Perhaps starting at 8 as you suggested.

[danoprey]

Do anyone know of a good forumula for calculating the adjusted bonuses? Quite a lot of tube stations, each with only 1 starting neutral.

[MrBenn]

Personally I'm not a fan of using the 3-letter abbreviations for the stations... It sucks a lot of the character out of the City

[natty dread]

Do anyone know of a good forumula for calculating the adjusted bonuses? Quite a lot of tube stations, each with only 1 starting neutral.

I think you can find them in this thread viewtopic.php?f=466&t=1410

[RedBaron0]

I agree with MrBenn, stations have names, not letters. It drains the knowledge of the area out. I've never been to London, tell me where I'm going!

One big thing you should consider is that in the process of creating a map is that from here you work on gameplay, then graphics. The draft at this point can have substandard graphics. (substandard, not bad) Gameplay needs to the biggest focus. Show the Foundry that this can be a fun and unique addition to the map collection. We've got several maps have use the train/subway as a gameplay hook. Show the Foundry how, London, where the concept of the subway was born, has the edge over other maps.

What I see is a lot of overlapping lines that will make thing difficult to understand during a game. I like the font and the legend. You can't attack adjacent territories?! I realize you want this to be a map where you can move around only via the tube system, but come on... haven't you ever walked to the next station above ground to catch a different line for a different destination? Limit movement between territories to immediately adjacent ones perhaps?

[rattius]

i think the idea of attacking one next to your place is a good one, though only certain places, say if the areas are too wide to be feisable to 'walk' add in a impassable there maybe?