Fractured America [Quenched]

[isaiah40]

I think that some of the bonuses are too high. Here are my suggestions:
Ecovania from 5 to 4
Republicans from 6 to 4
Amexica from 8 to 7
Freemans from 5 to 4

Canada seems to be a tough place to hold so it could be raised to a 7 troops bonus.

I'm liking your map.

Sorry, but all the bonuses have been decided and agreed upon, and have already received the GP stamp. If they seem out of place during beta then we will address them. Keep watching this thread for further updates! I do thank you for your suggestion and will be noted for if we have problems during the Beta testing phase.

[fumandomuerte]

figured that, I'm just a lazy boy to read 30+ pages of posts .
But as you're saying, there is a beta stage

[Industrial Helix]

Probably not what you want to hear but have you ever thought of changing the colors? They just clash and it kind of gets me everytime I look at this map. Maybe there ought to be a progression of warm colors on one side and cool colors on the other with neutral colors in the middle... cause as it stand now its more like all different colors are strewn all over the place without regard for pattern. It's like the map lacks cohesion in terms of color.

For example look at the civil war map below. Notice how the north is cool color or green uniting it with the slave owning union states, showing the difference between the two maps and giving them some cohesion through color. The first to secede states are bright yellow, hot, reflecting their inflammatory actions, and the second wave of seceding states are warm red. South Carolina, the first to secede, is pink... still a warm color and fitting in with the southern color scheme of warm colors.

If we swapped the colors around so that south carolina was teal, 1st wave was red and second wave black, slave-union states yellow and north blue then it'd be a jumbled mess and the poster website that I stole the image from wouldn't be selling the map.

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/u-s-map-showing-seceeding-states-by.jpg[/bigimg]


What you do have going on is that the map i similar in terms of its saturation. Which is good, I think. But the varying tones make it look splotchy and rough on the eyes. Take a look at the map in black and white and see what I mean.

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/fracturedamericavBW.jpg[/bigimg]

Compare it with the aesthetically pleasing civil war map:

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/u-s-map-showing-seceeding-states-1.jpg[/bigimg]

The civil war map has variances in tone, but it forms a general shape and pattern and the jump isn't too great. Whereas the Outfit sits like a black hole on the map and clashes severally with Pennsylvania. Deseret is very dark and if lighted it would fit in transition with Ecovania much better. However, the south america states are two bright in contrast with Ecovania and Deseret. You could try to tweak these tones, but I think with the color problems, it might just be best to keep this in mind when addressing the whole.

I understand you went for colors that reflect the states but I think with the number of states involved, I think it might have been a bad decision. I really wish I would have said something a while ago, but to be honest, this map really didn't interest me a whole lot until recently. Plus, I'm kind of hesitant to suggest major changes as I know how much work has already been put in. But RedBaron took it like a man and his map changed for the better. I'm trying to figure out why none of us are getting graphics stamps and long hard looks at the current main foundry selection might be a way to get things moving. Anyway, I have one major crit left, plus a few minor ones.

And another possibility that might spice up this map to get it the stamp would be a font change. a) never use arial, its the most boring font ever. b) try all caps, nothing says war like all caps, see below, and all the publishers and graphics designers know this. Personally, the font used in "The War on Democracy" looks perfect for this map, though the rest of that composition is downright terrible (never use more than two fonts if you can help it).

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/war.jpg[/bigimg]

Give it a shot, it might get you that graphics stamp.

And your arrows seem to think, especially on the small map. Long Island in particular. You ever think of using a dotted line instead of those bulky arrows? The large map isn't too bad, but the small map seems pretty crowded and altering the arrows might make it graphically pleasing.

The Baja peninsula is too hard to read, especially with the j on lines. Play with the font there. Same with Sinaloa.

Anyway, I think you've got a good concept that has grown on me since it entered the foundry. With some graphics changes I suggested, I think you could get the stamp and get this thing quenched.

[isaiah40]

Thank you IH for those good suggestions. I'll see what I can do (not that I really want to redo it, but like RB0, I might just have to )

Stayed tuned to this fractured channel for further updates!!

[Industrial Helix]

On a somewhat positive note, it's not really re-doing it some much as it is a few clicks and hotkeys. I know you can change all the fonts all at once in Photoshop and change the colors through ctrl+U, it seems like major work ahead but I think it could be achieved really quick.

[Raskholnikov]

Hi,

The idea of sub-dividing North and Central America along non-nation-state lines, but rather regional characteristics, has been done before, notably by Joel Garreau in his 1981 book The Nine Nations of North America. More recently, respected legal and political scholar Philip Bobbitt, in his seminal The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace and the Course of History, discusses a scenario where most powers in North America would revert to states/provinces and federal governments would be severely weakened, thus resulting in some states where the division between state and religion would disappear, others where progresive liberal policies in the social and environmental fields would prevail, etc. So there is nothing really novel or controversial about this map as it currently stands (especially since its more controversial original elements have been sanitised).

Just a few suggestions to make this both more accurate and more playable (I know bonuses have already been "established" but this map is still in draft so that can be revised too):

Leaving virtually ALL of English Canada west of Quebec together does not keep in theme with the rest of the map. Sask, Alberta, BC, Victoria and Wash should form a region called "Cascadia".

Thunder Bay, Fort A, Sud and York should be a region called "Greater Toronto" with the capital in (surprise!) Toronto.

Labrador should be part of the "Republique du Quebec". Quebec to this day does not recognise this border and would easily seize the teritory in case of conflict with Nfdld. Estrie should also be part of the "Republique du Quebec"; I realise you want the St, Lawrence to be a border, but that would be to totally sacrifice accuracy for playability and would annoy most Quebec players.

Ecotopia, The Foundry, Mexamerica and Hispanola are, in my opinion, more evocative and accurate names than Ecovania, The Outfit (whico should include Ohio), Amexica and Cuba (whose capital should be moved from Cuba to Miami).

Is "Deseret" a typo or the intended name of the western region? If intended, why?

Finally, the legend should be changed to reflect this is a North American map, not just a US one, Maybe just the last sentence: In 10 short years, all of North America had fragmented along regional creeds and identities.

Good luck!

[isaiah40]

Hi,

The idea of sub-dividing North and Central America along non-nation-state lines, but rather regional characteristics, has been done before, notably by Joel Garreau in his 1981 book The Nine Nations of North America. More recently, respected legal and political scholar Philip Bobbitt, in his seminal The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace and the Course of History, discusses a scenario where most powers in North America would revert to states/provinces and federal governments would be severely weakened, thus resulting in some states where the division between state and religion would disappear, others where progresive liberal policies in the social and environmental fields would prevail, etc. So there is nothing really novel or controversial about this map as it currently stands (especially since its more controversial original elements have been sanitised).

Just a few suggestions to make this both more accurate and more playable (I know bonuses have already been "established" but this map is still in draft so that can be revised too):

Leaving virtually ALL of English Canada west of Quebec together does not keep in theme with the rest of the map. Sask, Alberta, BC, Victoria and Wash should form a region called "Cascadia".

Thunder Bay, Fort A, Sud and York should be a region called "Greater Toronto" with the capital in (surprise!) Toronto.

Labrador should be part of the "Republique du Quebec". Quebec to this day does not recognise this border and would easily seize the teritory in case of conflict with Nfdld. Estrie should also be part of the "Republique du Quebec"; I realise you want the St, Lawrence to be a border, but that would be to totally sacrifice accuracy for playability and would annoy most Quebec players.

Ecotopia, The Foundry, Mexamerica and Hispanola are, in my opinion, more evocative and accurate names than Ecovania, The Outfit (whico should include Ohio), Amexica and Cuba (whose capital should be moved from Cuba to Miami).

Is "Deseret" a typo or the intended name of the western region? If intended, why?

Finally, the legend should be changed to reflect this is a North American map, not just a US one, Maybe just the last sentence: In 10 short years, all of North America had fragmented along regional creeds and identities.

Good luck!

Really good points rask!! I think a new poll would be in order to determine which way the community would like it to go. Since I was going to redo the graphics anyways, I can redo them and the bonuses at the same time, thereby saving time. Deseret actually is the name that (if I remember correctly) Brigham Young put forth to the US Congress to name the new state which actually covered (of course) Utah, most of Nevada and parts of Arizona, Idaho, Colorado and I believe even New Mexico, but was rejected.

In regards to the story line, I was thinking of changing it to reflect North America and not just the US.

[Raskholnikov]

Glad to be of help. Look forward to see the next version (Didn't know the "Deseret" story. Tks for that.)

[isaiah40]

Glad to be of help. Look forward to see the next version (Didn't know the "Deseret" story. Tks for that.)

You're welcome!

On a side note I will let this thread stew for the next 10 days while the poll is open. I will look at this again in 10 days and make my final decision at that time. So please vote so we can get this map moving closer to the Gr stamp!!

[Evil DIMwit]

Shouldn't there be some kind of way to vote for 'Canada's fine as it is'? Because Canada's fine as it is.

[Raskholnikov]

With due respect, it's not. There is a huge difference between Toronto- dominated Ontario and Alberta and BC. You just cant bunch it all together if your aim is to show how North America devloves into separate regions.
Plus, game-wise, it makes more sense to have two smaller regions than a huge one very hard to hold.

[Evil DIMwit]

With due respect, it's not. There is a huge difference between Toronto- dominated Ontario and Alberta and BC. You just cant bunch it all together if your aim is to show how North America devloves into separate regions.
Plus, game-wise, it makes more sense to have two smaller regions than a huge one very hard to hold.

Politics aside -- I surely don't know as much about Canada as you do -- in terms of gameplay I think the Canada continent works perfectly. It's not that large, and it's very extensible -- you can expand into Metis, Freemen, or Quebec without making the perimeter too much harder to hold. There are already a bunch of small continents in the region; it's nice to mix in a large one for variety.

[Industrial Helix]

I voted option 2, but to be honest, it wouldn't bother me if Canada was kept as it is. Rash makes some other good points though.

[isaiah40]

With due respect, it's not. There is a huge difference between Toronto- dominated Ontario and Alberta and BC. You just cant bunch it all together if your aim is to show how North America devloves into separate regions.
Plus, game-wise, it makes more sense to have two smaller regions than a huge one very hard to hold.

With all due respect rask,I think Evil does have a valid point, so I included a new option to leave Canada as it is. Not saying I'll do what anyone says to do, I just want a very good idea of what the community would like to see. The story line will be changed for sure, as for everything else, both sides bring up very valid points, so I'll leave it up to them. It's the only fair thing to do in this situation. So let's wait the ten days and see what becomes of this okay?

[Raskholnikov]

Of course, it's your map after all. I only gave you some suggestions. The decision is yours

[mibi]

This map is solid visually, but I wish it were a little 'darker' given the subject matter. The pastels just are not working here.

[wcaclimbing]

I agree with mibi.
Darker would look better.
You don't even need to go in and change each color, just put some layer effects to make everything a bit darker, which is probably what mibi did to make his example.

[mibi]

I agree with mibi.
Darker would look better.
You don't even need to go in and change each color, just put some layer effects to make everything a bit darker, which is probably what mibi did to make his example.

yeah, just did a black fill layer overlay at 75%, and just masked out areas with a 10% grundge brush until I was happy with it. But there are lots of ways to let your dark side in there.

[isaiah40]

Okay here is the large based off of Mibi's example. Tell me what you think.

[bigimg]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3459/fracturedamericav13.png[/bigimg]

[soundman]

Way too dark. And keep Canada as is!

[jefjef]

Entirely the wrong direction. GO back. I bet this color scheme would play hell on the colorblind and it sure as hell isn't pleasing for me to look at.

Keep it your map.

[cairnswk]

Entirely the wrong direction. GO back. I bet this color scheme would play hell on the colorblind and it sure as hell isn't pleasing for me to look at.

Keep it your map.

Agreed. Entirely to dark.
There is such a thing as too much fiddling...

[isaiah40]

Will go back to V12.8 ... maybe lightening it up some more?

[isaiah40]

Ok I lightened it up a bit, which version should we go with V12.8, V13, V13.1 or V13.1a?

V12.8
[bigimg]http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6033/fracturedamericav128.png[/bigimg]

V13 with black fill layer @75%
[bigimg]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3459/fracturedamericav13.png[/bigimg]

V13.1 with black fill layer @50%
[bigimg]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7988/fracturedamericav131.png[/bigimg]

Or V13.1a with black fill layer @35%
[bigimg]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8910/fracturedamericav131a.png[/bigimg]

[cairnswk]

I vote V12.8