'My heart, my choice"

[Phatscotty]

'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery

By Tara Brautigam (CP)

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

... rest of story http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... _b-gsGGDxA

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

Danny Williams
- "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

- His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said. That's when he met and was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas (Miami), a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries. Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

- "I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time"

- "We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

- "But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it.

[Woodruff]

'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery

By Tara Brautigam (CP) – Feb 22, 2010

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

... rest of story http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... _b-gsGGDxA

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

Danny Williams
- "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

- His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said. That's when he met and was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas (Miami), a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries. Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

- "I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time"

- "We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

- "But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it.

Your Trollishness is a little slow these days - we already hashed this out.

[Phatscotty]

'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery

By Tara Brautigam (CP) – Feb 22, 2010

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

... rest of story http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... _b-gsGGDxA

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

Danny Williams
- "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

- His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said. That's when he met and was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas (Miami), a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries. Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

- "I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time"

- "We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

- "But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it.

Your Trollishness is a little slow these days - we already hashed this out.

yes yes, however, there were challenges to quotes, by the likes of Timminz and Baron, saying I made them up. Sometimes this is the only way to educate.

[Woodruff]

'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery

By Tara Brautigam (CP) – Feb 22, 2010

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

... rest of story http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... _b-gsGGDxA

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

Danny Williams
- "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

- His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said. That's when he met and was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas (Miami), a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries. Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

- "I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time"

- "We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

- "But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it.

Your Trollishness is a little slow these days - we already hashed this out.

yes yes, however, there were challenges to quotes, by the likes of Timminz and Baron, saying I made them up. Sometimes this is the only way to educate.

So when will you start? Because so far, this is only re-hashing.

[Phatscotty]

'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery

By Tara Brautigam (CP) – Feb 22, 2010

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

... rest of story http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... _b-gsGGDxA

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

Danny Williams
- "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

- His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said. That's when he met and was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas (Miami), a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries. Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

- "I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time"

- "We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

- "But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it.

Your Trollishness is a little slow these days - we already hashed this out.

yes yes, however, there were challenges to quotes, by the likes of Timminz and Baron, saying I made them up. Sometimes this is the only way to educate.

So when will you start? Because so far, this is only re-hashing.

I dont care, I'm the one that needed to re-hash. Your re-hashings do nothing to place the delicious triscuits in my stomach now do they?

[Snorri1234]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

[john9blue]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

[Snorri1234]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

The procedure that he wanted is not done in Canada for a good reason. It isn't the best option. The only real reason to choose this procedure is because you don't want a big scar on your chest. (Which is silly, chicks dig them.)

To clarify: this has everything to do with the US being a market for aesthetics to come into play and nothing about the quality being of both the canadian and american systems.

[2dimes]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

The procedure that he wanted is not done in Canada for a good reason. It isn't the best option. The only real reason to choose this procedure is because you don't want a big scar on your chest. (Which is silly, chicks dig them.)

To clarify: this has everything to do with the US being a market for aesthetics to come into play and nothing about the quality being of both the canadian and american systems.

What about the fact that they don't have to break the bone to get in. After that you need to recover. You can't use your arms to sit up for a few months, and other things that do sound like a bother to a busy polititian running the most pregresive former country province in Canuckistan.

[DangerBoy]

I dont care, I'm the one that needed to re-hash. Your re-hashings do nothing to place the delicious triscuits in my stomach now do they?

I enjoyed reading that, whether it was a re-hash or not. It's very instructive.

[Snorri1234]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

The procedure that he wanted is not done in Canada for a good reason. It isn't the best option. The only real reason to choose this procedure is because you don't want a big scar on your chest. (Which is silly, chicks dig them.)

To clarify: this has everything to do with the US being a market for aesthetics to come into play and nothing about the quality being of both the canadian and american systems.

What about the fact that they don't have to break the bone to get in. After that you need to recover. You can't use your arms to sit up for a few months, and other things that do sound like a bother to a busy polititian running the most pregresive former country province in Canuckistan.

Yeah but that stuff is not guaranteed.

Anyway, the particular procedure he had might have increased risks afterwards. It's not yet been proven to be the best thing so further data and such is needed.


So uhm....I still don't understand why this is important.

[V.I.]

I love Pregresive Country sauce. It reminds me of Tuscany during the 1930s.

[2dimes]

V.I. nice to see you here. This place didn't deserve you when you came. It's significantly worse now and there's no where for your level of posting to fit in.

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

The procedure that he wanted is not done in Canada for a good reason. It isn't the best option. The only real reason to choose this procedure is because you don't want a big scar on your chest. (Which is silly, chicks dig them.)

To clarify: this has everything to do with the US being a market for aesthetics to come into play and nothing about the quality being of both the canadian and american systems.

What about the fact that they don't have to break the bone to get in. After that you need to recover. You can't use your arms to sit up for a few months, and other things that do sound like a bother to a busy polititian running the most pregresive former country province in Canuckistan.

Yeah but that stuff is not guaranteed.

Anyway, the particular procedure he had might have increased risks afterwards. It's not yet been proven to be the best thing so further data and such is needed.


So uhm....I still don't understand why this is important.

Personally I don't think it's important. Some figure this is evidence of the lack luster care you get here due to the socialised health care system falling apart because it's being run like a privatised one that bases decisions on "Cost" instead of what's the best way to provide care.

I think people are right to be concerned that there will be some major problems changing the american system. I think there's potential for some great things becoming available to the lower income people but we will have to see what happens as it happens.

[Snorri1234]

Personally I don't think it's important. Some figure this is evidence of the lack luster care you get here due to the socialised health care system falling apart because it's being run like a privatised one that bases decisions on "Cost" instead of what's the best way to provide care.

I think people are right to be concerned that there will be some major problems changing the american system. I think there's potential for some great things becoming available to the lower income people but we will have to see what happens as it happens.

I actually know why phatscotty posts these things. It's the old "look all these canadians are coming over the border because socialized healthcare sucks"-argument.

Which is a bullshit argument, but I can't even see why it would apply here. The dude could get the care he needed, he just didn't want it. He wanted the extra-special treatment that the medical community isn't yet totally sure about.

[john9blue]

I actually know why phatscotty posts these things. It's the old "look all these canadians are coming over the border because socialized healthcare sucks"-argument.

Which is a bullshit argument, but I can't even see why it would apply here. The dude could get the care he needed, he just didn't want it. He wanted the extra-special treatment that the medical community isn't yet totally sure about.

"Isn't yet totally sure about"? You think a VIP like him is going to get a medical procedure that's risky and not proven by the medical community? Where do you get this stuff?

It seems you're trying to downplay American medical advancements just because our system of healthcare isn't operated the way you like. Honestly this isn't even about who has the best standard healthcare for the average Joe, it's about who has the best cutting-edge top-notch healthcare for people like him. So although this is a sketchy argument against socialized healthcare, it says something about the progress we have made under our current system.

[Snorri1234]

I actually know why phatscotty posts these things. It's the old "look all these canadians are coming over the border because socialized healthcare sucks"-argument.

Which is a bullshit argument, but I can't even see why it would apply here. The dude could get the care he needed, he just didn't want it. He wanted the extra-special treatment that the medical community isn't yet totally sure about.

"Isn't yet totally sure about"? You think a VIP like him is going to get a medical procedure that's risky and not proven by the medical community? Where do you get this stuff?

It seems you're trying to downplay American medical advancements just because our system of healthcare isn't operated the way you like. Honestly this isn't even about who has the best standard healthcare for the average Joe, it's about who has the best cutting-edge top-notch healthcare for people like him. So although this is a sketchy argument against socialized healthcare, it says something about the progress we have made under our current system.

What the f*ck are you talking about? We aren't sure about the particular medical procedure in the sense that we can't say if it's really better for people in the long term. Risky and proven to work aren't considerations anymore because we know that. We just don't know if this procedure is better in the long term than the current one all other countries are using. Hell, that's what was probably told to this person. This is not standard procedure because it has not yet been proven to be better.

I'm more than willing to argue over this. Hell, I think it is probably the better surgery though I'm still waiting for further studies because while not cracking open your ribs is cool and all that it also means you could maybe miss things that in normal surgery wouldn't be missed.


I am saying that in this case cutting-edge technology has nothing to do with it. I know that the USA has the best high-end stuff in medicine. which is to be expected from a country with 300 million people. But this is not available in Canada because of reasons other than SOCIALISM. Which is why I said that.

[john9blue]

I agree with your last paragraph. Using this as a case against socialized healthcare is sketchy at best. There are too many other factors. America leads the world in other areas of technology as well.

But why do you keep speculating over whether this is really the better procedure? He would not have come down here, paid extra without reimbursement, and rejected his own country's healthcare, if our medical practices weren't clearly more effective.

[captainwalrus]

I don't get what your point is.

Is it just that American doctors are better at that certain type of heart surgery than Canadians? So what?

[Baron Von PWN]

yes yes, however, there were challenges to quotes, by the likes of Timminz and Baron, saying I made them up. Sometimes this is the only way to educate.

Actually you did make up your quote. You claimed Danny Williams said "I can't get the care I need in Canada". He clearly didn't say that. He said he chose to take a quicker more painless surgery over the more painful and slow healing surgery offered in Canada. So the service he needed was available in Canada he just chose a quicker and lower impact surgery.

[Baron Von PWN]

Some canadian cares more about aesthetics than effectiveness, spends too much money on procedure.


So?

LOL what? So a Canadian surgery would have been "more effective" then? Also he's not "some Canadian", he's a political leader who has access to the highest quality healthcare. Nice attempt to twist language to suit your needs though.

The procedure that he wanted is not done in Canada for a good reason. It isn't the best option. The only real reason to choose this procedure is because you don't want a big scar on your chest. (Which is silly, chicks dig them.)

To clarify: this has everything to do with the US being a market for aesthetics to come into play and nothing about the quality being of both the canadian and american systems.

What about the fact that they don't have to break the bone to get in. After that you need to recover. You can't use your arms to sit up for a few months, and other things that do sound like a bother to a busy polititian running the most pregresive former country province in Canuckistan.

Newfoundland and Labrador is hardly the most progressive province in Canada.

[Snorri1234]

I agree with your last paragraph. Using this as a case against socialized healthcare is sketchy at best. There are too many other factors. America leads the world in other areas of technology as well.

But why do you keep speculating over whether this is really the better procedure? He would not have come down here, paid extra without reimbursement, and rejected his own country's healthcare, if our medical practices weren't clearly more effective.

Actually he would. But that's not what I'm saying. This particular procedure isn't considered to be the best there is yet, so even if one was to make the old point about Canadians coming accros the border because the amrican way is teh bestests this case wouldn't be any good.

He didn't do this because it's what doctors advised. He did this because he cared more about aesthetics and recovery time than objective merits of the procedure. Which is fine and in 5 years or so this procedure will be far more common, but I'm just saying this particular thing isn't the case you should be using if you were to make the classic point.



And yes, America leads in other areas too. It is because it is such a huge country. Canadian use of the healthcare in the USA is comparable to people travelling to the big city for shopping. Hell, it's comparable to people travelling to the big city for healthcare. The specialer the treatment/doctor gets, the less likely he is going to be near you. Advanced medical child healthcare is only done in our Academic Hospital in Amsterdam for a reason, it would simply not be feasible/logical for it to be in other hospitals too.

[Jolly Roger]

Danny Williams could have stayed in Canada for top cardiac care, doctors say

Tom Blackwell, National Post

Danny Williams' decision to seek out heart surgery in the United States may seem like an embarrassing blow to Canadian health care, but cardiac specialists say the Newfoundland Premier could have obtained virtually any heart treatment in his own country, carried out by top-notch doctors.

Long wait times for cardiac surgery were a problem 15 years ago but are generally "a thing of the past" in most parts of Canada, physicians insist.

... rest of story http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2514581

but by all means, feel free to entirely skip the story and still make a comment on the story. These are just a few exceprts I took from it.

- Virtually all forms of cardiac surgery are looked after in Canada, and I would say extremely well," said Dr. Chris Feindel, a cardiac surgeon at Toronto's University Health Network. "Personally ... I would have my cardiac surgery done in Canada, no matter what resources I had at my disposal."

- patients from the United States and other countries come to the UHN's Peter Munk Cardiac Centre for valve repairs, a procedure developed by Toronto surgeons

- In fact, Newfoundland is able to provide bypasses and other common heart operations at home, but routinely ships patients to Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa for rarer procedures, such as transplants and treatment of congenital heart defects, said Dr. Eric Stone, a St. John's cardiologist.

- There are simply not enough cases of that sort for surgeons in Newfoundland to develop the requisite expertise, he said. In 28 years, though, Dr. Stone said he has never had to refer a patient to the U.S.

This country's heart care is otherwise on a par with the States, agreed Dr. Blair O'Neill, vice president-elect of the Canadian Cardiovascular Society. "I would say the expertise in Canadian centres is quite high and the type of procedures they do are definitely leading edge," said the Edmonton cardiologist.

[2dimes]

Newfoundland and Labrador is hardly the most progressive province in Canada.

I'm speaking in relative terms of course. Half the province didn't have electricity or indoor plumbing a couple of decades ago. Now their economy is actually pretty strong. For all I know they have built hospitals there to replace all the medical tents.

[Baron Von PWN]

Newfoundland and Labrador is hardly the most progressive province in Canada.

I'm speaking in relative terms of course. Half the province didn't have electricity or indoor plumbing a couple of decades ago. Now their economy is actually pretty strong. For all I know they have built hospitals there to replace all the medical tents.

woops I misinterpreted your typo. Then i don't realy have anything to comment on this. Though I think you are exaggerating the lack of development slightly.

[2dimes]

Newfoundland and Labrador is hardly the most progressive province in Canada.

I'm speaking in relative terms of course. Half the province didn't have electricity or indoor plumbing a couple of decades ago. Now their economy is actually pretty strong. For all I know they have built hospitals there to replace all the medical tents.

woops I misinterpreted your typo. Then i don't realy have anything to comment on this. Though I think you are exaggerating the lack of development slightly.

I'm actually exaggerating the amount of new development, change and modernization since the 1980s but not much.