Nordic Countries [Quenched]

[isaiah40]

I'm thinking that central and southern Sweden are still a little close in the vischeck. I can see the difference, but I had to look closely to tell. Maybe darken the south a little more?

[natty dread]

Maybe darken the south a little more?

Sure...

[natty dread]

done:

[bigimg]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4514/northeuropev52f.png[/bigimg]

[isaiah40]

Looks good, but how does it look when you run vischeck on it? I'm pretty sure it will be okay, I just would like to see it ya know?

[natty dread]

Sure, no prob.

[ender516]

I'm afraid I have to side with you against RedBaron0 about the sea routes. Anyone who has not read this whole thread is more likely, in my opinion, to misconstrue a sea route to a capital as connecting to the underlying territory as well, without the graphic example of the dotted lines going to the troop circle, despite the text to the contrary. Some people just will not read text, but will complain about the image being unclear. For example, I was playing 13 Colonies, and an opponent gave me the impression in the chat that he resented being tricked/forced to read the legend/letter, because the landing points for the British ships were not identified as such on the map, aside from being at the end of the dotted routes from the ships.

[RedBaron0]

Ok-ok, I see your point, just remember I'm trying to remain constant myself... ask Industrial Helix about connector dots.

Then my concern with the dots was more about dots crossing through a couple territories on their way to there destination which may give the impression you have to go through both territories to get there. Ostergotland's line went through Smaland to get to it. This is a perfect example of fudging geography to meet your needs, that chunk of Smaland jutting up towards Ostergotland... redraw that border so there's more of a coast line and have the dots roll through there to your army circle.

Maybe go a shade or 2 darker on Southern Sweden and I think you got the color.

[natty dread]

Ok I'll get these fixed, will post an update soon...

[natty dread]

Changes made as requested, I present to you version 53 - fifty-three, a humongous number... perhaps this will be the last version before final forge? We shall see...

v53 large
[bigimg]http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4655/northeuropev53.png[/bigimg]

v53 small

[natty dread]

Here's also the latest XML.

http://h1.ripway.com/ndread/nordic_xml_4.xml

[natty dread]

Waaaah! Still no stamp?

[thenobodies80]

Patience is the virtue of the strong

I have only one suggestion:
in the big version the bridge looks very pixellous.
Except for that it's ready to go imo.

[natty dread]

Patience is the virtue of the strong

I have only one suggestion:
in the big version the bridge looks very pixellous.
Except for that it's ready to go imo.

Think so? Hmm... let me see what I can do.

[natty dread]

large
[bigimg]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4209/northeuropev53a.png[/bigimg]

small

[snufkin]

Wow!
I stay away from this thread for 20 pages thinking this probably would end up with too many errors to become an enjoyable map..

I was very wrong! Sorry!!

The only thing I see now is that you misunderstood the concept of "sweden proper".. but that is quite understandable since many swedes really don´t know what it is or was exactly. It has not really been used for hundreds of years..
It is not the same kind of concept as varsinais-suomi (in fact varsinais-Suomi and Österland/Finland once used to be counted as a part of "egentliga Sverige/Sweden proper").

I realise you probably just thought it was a translation for Svealand but if you look it up you will see that it is not correct.
It can mean two things but modern Svealand is not one of them - Sweden proper is either:
1. all lands that fully are a part of the kingdom (that would be all of modern Sweden)
2. the core homeland of the Svea tribe about a thousand years ago (not Värmland only the eastern half of modern Svealand and perhaps a part of Dalarna)

Right now it is a bit like making a British map and then call the english bonus continent East Anglia (or call the East Anglia territory only England).


Why not call it Svealand? It is the only name officially in use for that area since hundreds of years back.

anyway this is the only error I can see and I wanna play it now!

[natty dread]

Thanks for your input Snufkin!

Hmm, we had this discussion with Alstergren and came to the conclusion that Sweden Proper was the best available translation for Svealand.

Also this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svealand

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Svealand

Svealand, Swealand or (rarely or historically) Sweden proper is the historical core region of Sweden.

Anyway, I liked the name Sweden Proper, since it clearly indicates the country. Norway has North/South Norway, Finland has South Finland & Finnish Lapland, but then Sweden has Norrland and Gothland - "Sweden Proper" being the only bonus area of the three that identifies the superbonus/country as Sweden for those who do not know the Nordic geography.

The same reason why I chose to use English names for the bonus areas & countries, I wanted the map to be easily approachable for non-Nordic people.

So would you say it would be terribly incorrect to use the term Sweden Proper? I can always change it if it really bothers you... Please forgive a "finnjävel" this ignorance of Swedish geography

[natty dread]

Either way, while waiting for Snufkin's response, here are test results for the latest XML:

XML file: http://h1.ripway.com/ndread/nordic_xml_4.xml

large with 83:s

[bigimg]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7792/northeuropev53xtr.png[/bigimg]

small with 83:s

[Industrial Helix]

I think the ocean would look better with the same texture as the land.

Also, the title looks way off from the map. It ought to at least have the same colors as the countries.

[snufkin]

Also this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svealand

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Svealand

Svealand, Swealand or (rarely or historically) Sweden proper is the historical core region of Sweden.

Yes, but borders and administration change in a thousand years. Look at the third map in that article and you will see that Värmland only has belonged to Svealand for two hundred years. It is not part of the historical core region.
..not even "rarely or historically" does it equal modern Svealand - and this is a modern map, no?


and you can also read about what sweden proper means here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_proper

The same reason why I chose to use English names for the bonus areas & countries, I wanted the map to be easily approachable for non-Nordic people.

Svealand and Swealand comes before s. proper on the english page.
You will not find a modern map in english calling Svealand "sweden proper" because it isn´t correct.

once again the problem is that they have different meanings and that it isn´t a direct translation.
When you say China in english you don´t mean Taiwan (republic of China). The turks called asia minor Rûm early on but it would be silly to translate that into the english Rome on a map because we know that is somewhere else.

So would you say it would be terribly incorrect to use the term Sweden Proper? I can always change it if it really bothers you... Please forgive a "finnjävel" this ignorance of Swedish geography

I don´t know about terribly but it is incorrect. Historically as well as in modern usage.

... and I thought my grandpa´s name was ukki until I was ten.. genetically I am as much a finnjävel as a swede afaik.

[natty dread]

I think the ocean would look better with the same texture as the land.

Also, the title looks way off from the map. It ought to at least have the same colors as the countries.

Well, here's where I'm afraid I have to be strict: I won't change the ocean, it was lots of work and I really like it - it's something different, that gives this map kinda an unique style, something that is not seen in most maps, and I think it really fits the map. If I were to do a grunge layer on the ocean like 1000 zillion other maps, the map would become really boring IMO.

I might work on the title somewhat, tone the colours etc. but that's the kind of detail work that can be left for the final forge, IMO...

I don´t know about terribly but it is incorrect. Historically as well as in modern usage.

... and I thought my grandpa´s name was ukki until I was ten.. genetically I am as much a finnjävel as a swede afaik.

Good that you're proud of your finnish heritage.

Anyway check your inbox... I have some ideas about the bonus area name, but I'm not opposed to using plain "Svealand" if it comes to that.

[RedBaron0]

--------->

Is it too late to ask for a territory named "Ikea?"

[MarshalNey]

congrats Natty, well and truly earned

[MrBenn]

I'm in a quandry... I'm surprised to see this map in the Final Forge - to my eyes it still looks a long way from completion - the title doesn't seem to fit with the colour scheme of the rest of the map, and the brightness of the green impassable trees is very out of place with the rest of the map. To me it looks about the same standard as Ancient Greece which people have been crying out for a revamp for a long time.

[natty dread]

Well, what can I say MrBenn... can't please everyone I guess... People have different tastes. Can't help but to think that if you really have criticism for the visual appearance of the map, maybe you should have said something while the map was in the graphics shop? Oh well.

Anyways, thank you very much for the graphics stamp. And thanks to everyone for the support.

So. I'm going to change Sweden Proper to something else... Tweak the colours of the title... and see if I can fix the forests, if not I'll probably redo them.

[natty dread]

updated large image

[bigimg]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7264/northeuropev53b.png[/bigimg]

updated XML (bonus area name change)

http://h1.ripway.com/ndread/nordic_xml_5.xml