Nordic Countries [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Yes, it's time for Beta. We don't want natty to grow a long white beard waiting... oh, wait, never mind....

I'm a Natural Mapmaker!




ps. all of you who are too young to get the reference, google R. Crumb and Mr. Natural

[erkern]

Well...?
Are we gonna DO IT, or just sit around yapping about it...? Congrats, Nappy!

[cairnswk]

You know natty, I hate to say this, but i don't think there is enough colour difference between the groups.
I tried to hint this to you when i ask if the colour blind map had been done, but you didn't take the hint. Oh well. Can't blame you.
I appreciate you want subtlty and "ice" but some of those....too close.

I like to see a bit more variation because some of those colours looks almost the same.

[Lufsen75]

I look forward to have the scandinavian masters on this one from now on. =)

[natty dread]

Hi cairns, thanks for your feedback. We did go through a lot of colour tweaking in the graphics workshop, and at the end of it everyone was satisfied with these - the colours are different enough that the bonus areas can be told from each other...

Anyway, the colours are really not that important, since the bonus areas are not colour-coordinated to a legend - as in the "old school" maps - but there is a minimap instead which accurately shows the bonus areas. Also we have the thicker borderlines for bonus area borders. What I'm trying to say with this is that it doesn't matter if some bonus colours look the same, as long as they are not adjacent. In fact I made south & north sweden almost the same on purpose, because I wanted to make it clear that they belong to the same country.

Cairns... I respect your opinion as an experienced mapmaker but I think this is the version I will be going to beta with. If I receive tons of complaints from people not being able to tell bonus areas from each other, then I will of course reconsider. But I don't think it will be happening, most seem to have no problems with the bonuses.

Well...?
Are we gonna DO IT, or just sit around yapping about it...? Congrats, Nappy!

Thanks erkern. I don't know, perhaps there's a limit to how many maps can be in beta at the same time?

[mibi]

You know natty, I hate to say this, but i don't think there is enough colour difference between the groups.
I tried to hint this to you when i ask if the colour blind map had been done, but you didn't take the hint. Oh well. Can't blame you.
I appreciate you want subtlty and "ice" but some of those....too close.

I like to see a bit more variation because some of those colours looks almost the same.

now that you mention it your right. i normally don't look at bonueses and such but I assumed there were three large continents here. looks like there is 6 or rather 8.

yeah those colors definitely need to be adjusted.

south and north norway
norway, sweededn, gothan, denmark
and the two finlands

are all way too similar.

I am suprised no one brought this up before cairns, but I see massive confusion and eventually beta fixes if this map is released like this.

[natty dread]

Sigh... ok, FINE. But this had BETTER get me into BETA!

V59.

large.
[bigimg]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/307/northeuropev59.png[/bigimg]
small.


XML.
http://h1.ripway.com/ndread/nordic_xml_9.xml

[porkenbeans]

There are 9 bonus areas. The legend is very easy to read, so there should be no confusion, even if they were all the same color.

[natty dread]

Thanks porkenbeans. Now if we can just get this thing in beta... where is MrBenn?

XML, check.
Coordinates, check.
Last graphical tweaks, check.

Mr. Benn, please point your quench gun this way!

[natty dread]

Anyone still having doubts, here is the colourblind check for the latest version. Seems just fine to me.




Can I has beta-testing now?

[natty dread]

There has been no complaints in the last 24 hours, so I assume everyone is finally satisfied.

Time for beta, where are the mods?

[ender516]

Don't you need an XML stamp before you can go to Beta?

[natty dread]

Don't you need an XML stamp before you can go to Beta?

Yes but the XML has already been approved by Forza and all coordinates have been corrected.

I can't see anything more to do with this map before beta, it should now be just a matter of foundry logistics.

So...

[yeti_c]

Are there 3 continents involved with Sweden? - Norway & Finland have continents named from their country - but Sweden doesn't... is this a concern?

C.

[natty dread]

Are there 3 continents involved with Sweden? - Norway & Finland have continents named from their country - but Sweden doesn't... is this a concern?

That's exactly why I chose similar colours for bonus areas of the same country. The same system is (for example) in world 2.1: different bonus areas in same superbonus/continent have similar colours. Thus it should be easy enough to understand.

So I believe it won't be a problem, but if beta testing proves me wrong, I will add some sort of explaining text in the legend.

[natty dread]

To expand on this issue a bit further... Swealand was earlier named "Sweden Proper" just for the reason you stated, to have a bonus area named by the country. But a Swedish guy (I think it was snufkin) told me that "Sweden Proper" would not be a correct name for the area, except maybe in some arcane historical context, so we made a compromise and called it "Swealand" which should be easy enough to associate with Sweden. "Swe" being the keyword here

[natty dread]

edit. nvm

[MrBenn]

I can see why there are minor concerns about region colours, but I think they're passable. I can understand the concerns about the Swedish region names; it's less about Swealand and more Norrland (which sounds intuitively Norwegian)... Perhaps adding a tiny bit of relevant colour to the legend (ie "All Sweden" etc) would help quieten the critics?

[natty dread]

Perhaps adding a tiny bit of relevant colour to the legend (ie "All Sweden" etc) would help quieten the critics?

You know, I've been thinking of the same thing. I think I'll do that. And thanks for the stamp

[natty dread]

Here, quick-update.

large
[bigimg]http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9575/northeuropev59a.png[/bigimg]
small

[denominator]

Personally, the colours are fine to me. I think lightening Swealand closer to white would have the most profound effect, as I can kinda see where the critics are coming from with Swealand being too similar to Gothland and Norrland. Honestly though, it's minor.

[natty dread]

I don't think I wish to lighten it any further. I think the current colours are optimal: any more difference and it will be difficult to tell that they belong to the same country.

Honestly, there's no way you can't tell the bonus areas apart now... look at the colour difference, it's huge:

[isaiah40]

Congrats natty!!

[natty dread]

Thanks Isaiah

[natty dread]

Wow... beta-testing is probably very soon to come. Therefore:

Big Thanks to The.Killing.44, Isaiah40, Industrial Helix, MrBenn, Eyestone, Snufkin, Alstergren, Peter Gibbons, Ender516 and anyone else I might have forgotten (you know who you are). Your help has been extremely valuable in making this map and I couldn't have done it without you.

Also, everyone who has followed this thread, I invite you to also comment on my other maps, Lunar War (a co-project with Isaiah) and Orient Express. They are very different maps from Nordic but if you have enjoyed my "style" on Nordic you might like those maps as well.