[Abandoned] Central Asia 2020

[isaiah40]

As per previous approval, this stamp makes it official!!

[Gillipig]

Looks very promising! But here are some things to consider;
The legend is very cluttered at the moment so it's hard to get a sense of things. I suggest trying a different font and maybe increase the size of the text. There's also a lot going on in the map and you might have to reduce the number of special regions a bit for the sake of clarity. All and all I like it though .

[pamoa]

Looks very promising! But here are some things to consider;
The legend is very cluttered at the moment so it's hard to get a sense of things. I suggest trying a different font and maybe increase the size of the text.
There's also a lot going on in the map and you might have to reduce the number of special regions a bit for the sake of clarity.
All and all I like it though .

thanks for dropping
well this map is now going for Gameplay stamp so I wont comment the graphic issue now
but I'll keep your comment in mind
about the special bonus and regions
well the essence of the map is the complex situation in central Asia around oil supply
so we have a multi-layered bonus structure to reflect it

MULTI-LAYERED BONUS STRUCTURE
territorial conflict = normal regions' bonuses and contested territories
local economic power = capitals and metropoli
USA intervention power = US fleets on "request" of any local government
oil infrastructure = refineries and ports (tankers)
local political instability = uprisings
religious instrumented terrorism = Al-Mahdi and terrorists

[pamoa]

Is there anybody in there

[ender516]

I am very disappointed to see so little action here. It looks like it will be an uphill struggle to regain the interest this map had before its layoff.

[Teflon Kris]

Cmon - gameplay feedback or stamp

[DiM]

Cmon - gameplay feedback or stamp

it doesn't really work like that

for example i can't give any pertinent gameplay feedback because the map is too disturbing to my eyes to be able to focus on analysing the gameplay.

[cairnswk]

not gameplay feedback...but colours...i can see what you are trying guys...and for someone like myself without CB limitations it doesn't look too bad, although i too like Dim find it a struggle to look at.
I have also just examined it for CB (D and P) and sorry...to me it doesn't pass in this respect. i don't know, but have you tried changing those white borders to black/shades of grey so it becomes less demanding on the eyes.

ON your sea Control legend....i think perhaps better would be -> reverts to 3 neutral at the start/beginning of your next turn...there is room enough in there.

in Bonuses...if hold -> change to ....if held - sounds better english

[pamoa]

for example i can't give any pertinent gameplay feedback because the map is too disturbing to my eyes to be able to focus on analysing the gameplay.

so then

...and for someone like myself without CB limitations it doesn't look too bad, although I too like Dim find it a struggle to look at.I have also just examined it for CB (D and P) and sorry...to me it doesn't pass in this respect.

no need of colours to read the map as regions' borders are marked by double line to differentiate it form simple territories borders and you have a minimap to read the bonuses

I don't know, but have you tried changing those white borders to black/shades of grey so it becomes less demanding on the eyes.

I'll try something on next version but I really prefer to have some gamplay feedback before working more on graphics

On your sea Control legend....i think perhaps better would be -> reverts to 3 neutral at the start/beginning of your next turn...there is room enough in there.
in Bonuses...if hold -> change to ....if held - sounds better English

It will be done

[cairnswk]

...and for someone like myself without CB limitations it doesn't look too bad, although I too like Dim find it a struggle to look at.I have also just examined it for CB (D and P) and sorry...to me it doesn't pass in this respect.

no need of colours to read the map as regions' borders are marked by double line to differentiate it form simple territories borders and you have a minimap to read the bonuses

Ah pamoa, that reply doesn't make sense, if there is no need of colours, why have you used them? If you're going to have colour then make it functional for everyone.
I am well aware that regional borders are double lined..etc etc..what i am saying is that i too struggle with the overal colour scheme on my eyes, and that could be fixed by changing the colour of the border lines. i don't know. i will have to wait and see what yo-u come up with.

[pamoa]

as I said I'll work on border colours
but I really need to have some comment on gameplay

[Swimmerdude99]

The only thing i have to say right now is too many territs.... I think there need to be less.

[pamoa]

The only thing i have to say right now is too many territs.... I think there need to be less.

?!? It is intended to be a big map with a lot of territories

[nolefan5311]

I will run some gameplay numbers over the next few days and get back to you.

[pamoa]

thanks for your help

[isaiah40]

I am well aware that regional borders are double lined..etc etc..what i am saying is that i too struggle with the overal colour scheme on my eyes, and that could be fixed by changing the colour of the border lines.

This. I know you want to concentrate on gameplay, at the same time the borders are a gameplay clarity issue. I suggest making those double borders a dark color to help out.

[nolefan5311]

I'm not having an issue with the borders right now, though I imagine that will come up after the GP stamp has been issued, so you may want to work on that. One graphic issue I see that will have to be changed is that you need more clearly defined symbols for the Refineries and the Tankers. Trying to locate them right now is too hard.

One of the main issues I see right now that I can't quite put my finger on...are the capitals/metropolis independent of the region they're in? As in, are they separate regions? For example, there is a capital on Kiev. Is the Kiev region ONLY the capital? Or is that capital independent of the Kiev region (and won't be included in the Eastern European bonus)? Another example...Abu Dhabi is going to have 3 armies on it (region army, refinery, and tanker)? How is that going to fit? Where are you going to fit the army for the Uprising on Yerevan?

Is Nepal an unplayable region? If so, it needs to be a different color on the minimap to differentiate it from Kashmir and Arunachal. Or maybe Kashmir and Arunachal need to be different colors to show they're in play.

As far as bonuses are concerned:

Middle East can probably be increased to at least 4 and Russia can probably be increased by 1 or 2.
Kazakhstan needs to be decreased by at least 3. The spreadsheet indicates it should be a +9.
Central Asia needs to be reduced to a +5.

The Refinery and Tanker bonuses are going to have be modified. On a map with this many terts there's over a 34% chance I drop the refinery +4. That number should be under 3% so you're going to have to change the bonus structure there (spreadsheet indicates that requiring 11 to be held to trigger the bonus puts the drop probability under 2.5%). And you have the same problem with the tankers. Distribution is a problem too. Three refineries are included in the 6 Eastern Europe territories, and it borders 3 more tankers. India and AFPAK, a combined 15 regions, has 2 tankers and no refineries.

I haven't run the bonus drop probability for any of the other bonuses yet, but the above is more than enough to keep your time occupied for a little while . This is a very interesting map and could be a lot of fun. Looking forward to seeing your changes.

[nolefan5311]

MOVED

It appears development on this map has stalled. Once an update has been made, let a CA know to get this moved back into the Foundry.

[Raskholnikov]

To the Foundry Masters:

After spending 8 months in Iraq, I am back in Vancouver. I am really interested in working with pamoa in finalising this very topical map, and he is interested in this as well. Pamoa will re-post the latest version of the map again, and I will go through the foundry comments re:gameplay, reply to them and make the appropriate changes. Meanwhile, pamoa will work on the color scheme to make it acceptable to all players. Could you please move the tread from abandoned to active?

Many thanks,

Raskholnikov

[cairnswk]

Yay! Best wishes

[pamoa]

latest images
v06s[bigimg]http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/pamoa_ch/CentralAsiav06s_zps886c3c25.png[/bigimg]

v05s[bigimg]http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/pamoa_ch/CentralAsiav05s_zps98a2e72c.png[/bigimg]

[ender516]

I will have to put this back in my signature.

[Raskholnikov]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your input. Here are some preliminary answers to your comments:

I'm not having an issue with the borders right now, though I imagine that will come up after the GP stamp has been issued, so you may want to work on that. One graphic issue I see that will have to be changed is that you need more clearly defined symbols for the Refineries and the Tankers. Trying to locate them right now is too hard.

The symbols fit in with the entire "Ops Room" theme. We could make them slightly bigger and use thicker lines....

One of the main issues I see right now that I can't quite put my finger on...are the capitals/metropolis independent of the region they're in? As in, are they separate regions? For example, there is a capital on Kiev. Is the Kiev region ONLY the capital? Or is that capital independent of the Kiev region (and won't be included in the Eastern European bonus)? Another example...Abu Dhabi is going to have 3 armies on it (region army, refinery, and tanker)? How is that going to fit? Where are you going to fit the army for the Uprising on Yerevan?

No, the capitals and metropolis ARE the region - like the capitals in Napoleon 1812 - Paris is both capital and region.

In the same way, symbols only define the properties of the region they are on - they are not independent of it. So, Abu Dabi is one region, with one and only army on it, which is characterised by owning both a refinery and a tanker.


Is Nepal an unplayable region? If so, it needs to be a different color on the minimap to differentiate it from Kashmir and Arunachal. Or maybe Kashmir and Arunachal need to be different colors to show they're in play.

Nepal and Bhutan are both unplayable. They are the color of the unplayable areas in Europe and Africa, and have no army numbers on it. We could try to have Kashmir and Arunchal of a different color....

As far as bonuses are concerned:

Middle East can probably be increased to at least 4 and Russia can probably be increased by 1 or 2.

ME is very easily defendable (two boundaries). Increasing the bonus could create an unfair advantage for someone who could quickly consolidate it.

Russia already gives the highest bonus among active starting regions. We could increase it to 7 though...

Kazakhstan needs to be decreased by at least 3. The spreadsheet indicates it should be a +9.
Central Asia needs to be reduced to a +5.

The entire goal of the game is not to have players just consolidate a region and play defensively, but invade Central Asia and take control of tankers / refineries there as well as prevent others from consolidating either Kasakhstan or Central Asia. The way to achieve this is to mark up the bonuses for both . But, if everyone insists, they could go down to 10/5.

The Refinery and Tanker bonuses are going to have be modified. On a map with this many terts there's over a 34% chance I drop the refinery +4. That number should be under 3% so you're going to have to change the bonus structure there (spreadsheet indicates that requiring 11 to be held to trigger the bonus puts the drop probability under 2.5%). And you have the same problem with the tankers. Distribution is a problem too. Three refineries are included in the 6 Eastern Europe territories, and it borders 3 more tankers. India and AFPAK, a combined 15 regions, has 2 tankers and no refineries.

I need to check with pamoa on the initial status of the Capitals. My original understanding was that all capitals start as neutrals. If this is the case, then drop probability is irrelevant since no bonuses for tankers / refineries are avaialable until players conquer and hold a Capital. I will revert on this once I check.

The reason is that India and Afpak border right on the Central Asia / Kazakhstan regions with lots of bonus territories, while Eastern Europe is very far away from it. So this is done on purpose to balance the play. This will also push the India / Afpak players to move ASAP into the Central Asia / Kazakhstan region, which is the purpose of the entire game.

I haven't run the bonus drop probability for any of the other bonuses yet, but the above is more than enough to keep your time occupied for a little while . This is a very interesting map and could be a lot of fun. Looking forward to seeing your changes.

I hope this addresses some of your concerns. Thanks.

[Raskholnikov]

Just discussed this with pamoa.

All capitals (required for tankers refineries bonus) and metropolis (+1 autodeploy) will be 4 neutrals at the start. The uprisings and terrorists will be part of the freely distributed territories at the start, which will now number 63.

No tanker or refinery bonus will be given out until a player conquers a +4 capital, thus taking care of the lucky drop problem.

I hope this addresses your concern.

[iancanton]

nice to see this one back in the main foundry workshop!

As far as bonuses are concerned:

Middle East can probably be increased to at least 4 and Russia can probably be increased by 1 or 2.

ME is very easily defendable (two boundaries). Increasing the bonus could create an unfair advantage for someone who could quickly consolidate it.

Russia already gives the highest bonus among active starting regions. We could increase it to 7 though...

the map is supposed to be about oil mastery, but the balance of oil wealth seems to have changed by too much to be credible, especially since saudi arabia has only 1 region while similarly-sized iran and turkey have 6 each. give more weight to the middle east by adding more regions and refineries. i suggest jeddah (saudi arabia's second city), dammam (saudi arabia's oil capital), doha (the capital of qatar, possibly the most influential small country in the world), dubai (the biggest port in the middle east) and kuwait (having the third largest oil reserves in the middle east, the reason that it was conquered by iraq temporarily and therefore a very strange omission). of course, the bonus will need to increase.

Kazakhstan needs to be decreased by at least 3. The spreadsheet indicates it should be a +9.
Central Asia needs to be reduced to a +5.

The entire goal of the game is not to have players just consolidate a region and play defensively, but invade Central Asia and take control of tankers / refineries there as well as prevent others from consolidating either Kasakhstan or Central Asia. The way to achieve this is to mark up the bonuses for both . But, if everyone insists, they could go down to 10/5.

while central asia has a huge bonus for only 4 regions, kazakhstan has a simlar central location but so many regions that it is virtually impossible to hold and therefore most sensible players will avoid attempting this bonus, which is surely not the intention. in an optimistic future, it's possible to see kazakhstan with as much wealth and influence as, say, iran or saudi arabia, but certainly not more. a sensible number of regions is therefore 4 or 5, given that it has no natural defensive barriers.

The Refinery and Tanker bonuses are going to have be modified. On a map with this many terts there's over a 34% chance I drop the refinery +4. That number should be under 3% so you're going to have to change the bonus structure there (spreadsheet indicates that requiring 11 to be held to trigger the bonus puts the drop probability under 2.5%). And you have the same problem with the tankers. Distribution is a problem too. Three refineries are included in the 6 Eastern Europe territories, and it borders 3 more tankers. India and AFPAK, a combined 15 regions, has 2 tankers and no refineries.

I need to check with pamoa on the initial status of the Capitals. My original understanding was that all capitals start as neutrals. If this is the case, then drop probability is irrelevant since no bonuses for tankers / refineries are avaialable until players conquer and hold a Capital. I will revert on this once I check.

The reason is that India and Afpak border right on the Central Asia / Kazakhstan regions with lots of bonus territories, while Eastern Europe is very far away from it. So this is done on purpose to balance the play. This will also push the India / Afpak players to move ASAP into the Central Asia / Kazakhstan region, which is the purpose of the entire game.

I haven't run the bonus drop probability for any of the other bonuses yet, but the above is more than enough to keep your time occupied for a little while . This is a very interesting map and could be a lot of fun. Looking forward to seeing your changes.[/quote]

I hope this addresses some of your concerns. Thanks.[/quote]