Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[pmchugh]

Of course I know the score, because everyone seemed pretty vigorous on that being a bad move, despite my luck in catching a mafia, so seemed like I should just confirm/clarify the point that I shouldn't kill as vig without actually outing myself.

So when you were talking to the "vig" what was the meaning behind that? To confirm/clarify that you shouldn't have done it? You have been playing for a while and thinking it is a good idea to shoot night 1 as a vig is rather hard to believe.

Also, while you can think of those as preemptive excuses, that honestly was the reasoning that I used to kill him.

OK lets see what your reasons were then

He benefited town so he's cool in my book

I'll ignore this one shall I?

it isn't really dissimilar to the D1 kill that we did yesterday which seemed to be killing for the sake of killing.

There is a world of difference, we got claims and info and we pressured him and could get further information. At the end of all of it we decided to lynch him with a majority of town. Randomly killing a player does not benefit town unless you have a strong scum vibe and just that he was one of many people on a BW is not a sufficient reason. He done it once, that is NOT enough to earn a kill.

Plus, no one has lent any doubt upon my name credentials, and I think I've seen my name mentioned in one of the scenes, so if you really think I'm third party (as eisenhower), you're well and truly bonkers.

This is harder to argue with, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SK was given a fake claim to help him out.

[safariguy5]

One of the ways to distance a vig from an SKer is precisely not shooting on Night 1 as SKer's must kill. By killing Night 1, you've put yourself in the situation where you exactly could be the SKer Leehar. I suppose it's true that we could have a Poisoner and you'd be off the hook, but the consistency of 2 night kills makes it more difficult to speculate.

[DoomYoshi]

Did anyone hear about a deadline or are we good for now?

[everywhere116]

Did anyone hear about a deadline or are we good for now?

I don't think ghostly would be around to enforce it anyway.

[Rodion]

viewtopic.php?p=3769804#p3769804

Deadline 6/12/12 9pm EST

lol

[DoomYoshi]

So deadline has already passed. The question is whether or not we should kill Leehar then. The flavor aspect is interesting, but the difference in flavor could be like a Jekyll/Hyde type thing. If he kills a mafia, it's a clean kill, if a town it's a dirty kill.

[Leehar]

This is harder to argue with, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SK was given a fake claim to help him out.

A fake claim of the guy who pops up as the pen name for the last 2 lynches(viewtopic.php?f=213&t=165179&start=1360#p3749137)? Awfully convenient? Would be kinda worthless to throw it out on an sk don't you think?

As I said, I 'fessed up on maybe it wasn't the best decision to kill night 1, but it's a bit hard to eat humble pie when I got a bullseye on mafia, while the best everyone else can come up with is lynching a vt and green survivor, and being desperate enough to want to lynch an inactive on day 3?

One of the ways to distance a vig from an SKer is precisely not shooting on Night 1 as SKer's must kill. By killing Night 1, you've put yourself in the situation where you exactly could be the SKer Leehar. I suppose it's true that we could have a Poisoner and you'd be off the hook, but the consistency of 2 night kills makes it more difficult to speculate.

I'm not understanding this correlation you have going on? I wasn't around for the end for at least the last fortnight and a bit, and I certainly didn't perform any night action. I didn't even know chuck and sparticus were dead until I looked at page 91 just now, since I was reading off the OP and thats only had 4 kills, which was actually making me think no one died last night.

Anyway, I certainly had nothing to do with chucks death, which lends credence to their being an actual sk out there, who's quite distinct from me. Scene flavour should also lend credence to that, since my guy died with a bullet, and this n2 kill with a knife apparently.
Perhaps his reasoning for not killing n1 was a counter for your reasoning Saf? They didn't want to stand out by killing n1 as sk?

[safariguy5]

SKer by definition must kill every night. Vigs can choose not to kill. That is why it's best for a vig not to shoot Night 1.

[pmchugh]

This is harder to argue with, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SK was given a fake claim to help him out.

A fake claim of the guy who pops up as the pen name for the last 2 lynches(viewtopic.php?f=213&t=165179&start=1360#p3749137)? Awfully convenient? Would be kinda worthless to throw it out on an sk don't you think?

As I said, I 'fessed up on maybe it wasn't the best decision to kill night 1, but it's a bit hard to eat humble pie when I got a bullseye on mafia, while the best everyone else can come up with is lynching a vt and green survivor, and being desperate enough to want to lynch an inactive on day 3?

Still bad play, you got very lucky. Also what is with bitching at towns play? If you really were a townie then you would be one of the worst of us, for not contributing anything and you haven't even read about 20 game pages. SKs are one of the hardest roles to win with, so I honestly would not be all that surprised if you got a decent name claim.

[jak111]

This is harder to argue with, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SK was given a fake claim to help him out.

A fake claim of the guy who pops up as the pen name for the last 2 lynches(viewtopic.php?f=213&t=165179&start=1360#p3749137)? Awfully convenient? Would be kinda worthless to throw it out on an sk don't you think?

Well check the recently finished Alien game. The cat was mentioned but was not a character. Was a good fake claim, but didn't work. So yes, I believe someone can be mentioned in a scene but not in the game.

[safariguy5]

This is harder to argue with, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SK was given a fake claim to help him out.

A fake claim of the guy who pops up as the pen name for the last 2 lynches(viewtopic.php?f=213&t=165179&start=1360#p3749137)? Awfully convenient? Would be kinda worthless to throw it out on an sk don't you think?

As I said, I 'fessed up on maybe it wasn't the best decision to kill night 1, but it's a bit hard to eat humble pie when I got a bullseye on mafia, while the best everyone else can come up with is lynching a vt and green survivor, and being desperate enough to want to lynch an inactive on day 3?

Still bad play, you got very lucky. Also what is with bitching at towns play? If you really were a townie then you would be one of the worst of us, for not contributing anything and you haven't even read about 20 game pages. SKs are one of the hardest roles to win with, so I honestly would not be all that surprised if you got a decent name claim.

After thinking about it some more, the fact that Leehar tries to use his lucky hit of a mafia player on Night 1 as justification for shooting night 1 as a vig seems to me to be more like an SKer getting lucky and trying to establish town cred. Not saying that Leehar can't be the vig, but you can't claim your Night 1 kill was justified after the fact because you hit a mafia player, especially if you agree that shooting Night 1 as the vig is extremely risky play at best with the majority of shots hitting townies.

Hindsight is 20/20, unvote vote Leehar

[DoomYoshi]

Also, in clue mafia, every time somebody fake claimed, the mods added it to the scenes. In the end we had like twice as many characters wandering about.

Anyways, I am willing to hammer if this seems to be the end of day. Any discussion points for tonight?

[Rodion]

Ok, I'll turn my last post into a list format, sheesh >_>

/
everywhere
chuck

Happy?

This is why I said only Ragian was entitled to claim Dazza's kill without coming across as suspicious. A town vigilante should not kill without massive evidence. Regardless, if he IS to kill, it's only reasonable that he'll kill one of the players he suspects the most.

Not sure if I can hammer post-deadline. Or even if he is not hammered already by the latest votes today. Or even if it is needed at all, as it's possible/likely that he has already been secretly hammered.

I'll add my vote later today if nobody has anything else to add.

[pmchugh]

I don't think its fair for the mod to deadline us when he is less active than us. Any last words lee?

[Leehar]

Just that I'm not just a random in the scene, but am writing the scene.
So just as I expect you to not doubt that there exists an Adolf here as the one writing the kill scenes at the end of night, there exists a Dwight (me) that's writing the lynch scenes at the end of day.
And just as it's undoubtable that hitler is a bad guy, I Eisenhower am good.

I also apologise if I seem somewhat hostile to 'town', but I do feel unjustly victimised that I'm being targeted as a goodie, and if therefore I have a suspicion there's a mafia in those amongst you baying for my blood, I feel I am somewhat justified.

Also, I can understand it's a bit hard to imagine it from my perspective, but to reiterate, even if I get killed here, I'll feel happy upon my contribution, since I harmed an enemy. If you contrast that with the Skyrim game, where I died N1 as a JoAT Dovahkin (dragonborn-main character) where essentially I had supercool powers but didn't get to use them at all, I think I've done better here.
It's a similar scenario here, where I'm also placed in the situation of a main good guy, and if I've managed to kill a mafia rather than run on empty, then I've left my impact and at least benefited my side, unlike having none.
It's also in contrast I think to Rodion's style as I see it. He didn't last until the latter stages of a game, so his decision was to be quiet in the early stages so that he can at least be there at the end; my attitude was just to (if I have actions) use my actions when I have the ability to do so, instead of let them be wasted, and if I die so be it, but at least I was able to do something in the time I had.


However, please also don't mistook my attitude to killing as vig before, as what it was afterwards. There seemed to be much dismay over the action n1, so I recognised the call and admitted to it not being the best course (without exposing myself), and rephrased it into words which would convince me (the risk/reward factor) rather then a generic it's an accepted bad strategy which is oft-pervailing but doesn't often have as much impact in convincing on a line of course, and which wasn't what I upheld before my action night 1, but do now. So please don't assume that before I killed night 1, I already knew about the negatives which I have been quoted as saying in Day 2 (after reading the responses to my actions)

[new guy1]

Okay guys. I am going to actually postpone the continuation of this game for a little while. I will try to get back to it within 7-14 days time, but it seems that I am super busy and I feel it is not fair to the players that are still alive.

I will request that this game is not archived until 2 weeks passes without any sign of hope for a revival, but when I get back I will re-read the last few pages and see where to go from there (Start of N3 or give time for D3).

When and if I am able to re-open this game, I will end up sending a re-opening message to inform you all of the circumstances. Life has just gotten too busy and I have not been able to keep up with any of my games, etc. I will try to get to doing a bit better as far as all around playing and hosting.

Thanks guys for being patient with me, but I no doubt stretched this one too far. Have to go now, so talk to you all soon hopefullly.

Adam

[new guy1]

PS above message was from me (ghostly) not New guy1. Sorry, forgot to log out before typing it.

[DoomYoshi]

Fuckin nutsacks of hell

[Leehar]

Bollocks and Barnacles

[pmchugh]

Aw I was enjoying that. I'll hold my response to lee until the game is back on.

Ghostly if you can't continue after a week or two then save the roles and we can get another mod to take over (I'll even do it and replace myself if there is no other choice).

[ghostly447]

I am happy to say that once I return from my trip on the 28th. I should be able to re-open this game for play. Please allow till the 30th anyways though.

[pmchugh]

I am happy to say that once I return from my trip on the 28th. I should be able to re-open this game for play. Please allow till the 30th anyways though.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

[blakebowling]

I'm going to archive this game. ghostly, if you'd like to pick it back up, PM myself or another discussions moderator and we'll move it back for you.

[DoomYoshi]

I vote we just reveal our roles and see if we were close to winning.

[new guy1]

Please dont, I will be taking it over if he doesnt get back soon...