Money Mafia - Archive please

[Rodion]

My 4th attempt at modding. No guarantees regarding balance.

In this game, everyone has money and night actions cost money.

Standard rules apply: you (should) know them. I'll clarify on a need-to-know basis.

Specific rules.

1 - Each player gains 100 gold pieces whenever a day begins.
2 - When a player is lynched, his gold pieces are equally divided between everyone on the wagon.
3 - When a player is NKed by mafia, his gold pieces are equally divided between mafia members. If he is NKed by someone else, then all gold pieces go to this someone else.
4 - At night, you may buy a night action (or several, provided you have the money) or save your money for the following night and perhaps a more powerful night action.
5 - Before the game starts, I'll publish a list with town night action prices and mafia night action prices so you all have an idea of what to expect.
6 - Game setup is meant to be 15-5, unless supply/demand persuades me to go with more or less than 20 players.

Players

1. new guy1
2. Nebuchadnezer
3. Iron Butterfly
4. jonty125
5. DoomYoshi
6. Some7hingCLEVER
7. zimmah
8. sheepofdumb
9. jak111
10. safariguy5
11. spiesr
12. Shape
13. ben1212
14. Nendreel
15. gregwolf121
16. ghostly447
17. thechuck51

Reserves

A. rishaed

[new guy1]

I told myself I was gonna break till jak's mansion mafia, but I have to get in on this. Im in!

[Nebuchadnezer]

Very interesting...an added piece of strategy...I'll go.

[Iron Butterfly]

Im in

[edocsil]

/in.

[superkeener]

Will each players amount of money be made public and would be be tradeable? Example, Could Player A give Player B (X) dollars to assist with buying a night action?

[jonty125]

In please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s

[DoomYoshi]

I will play.

[gregwolf121]

the best thing about mafia is all the great game ideas that come out, this sounds really promising, but im a bit full right now, so put me in as a reserve,

[Rodion]

Will each players amount of money be made public and would be be tradeable? Example, Could Player A give Player B (X) dollars to assist with buying a night action?

Unless someone has a specific power allowing them to do what you asked, the answer is no to both questions.

[Rodion]

This is the provisory list of town and mafia night actions. I'll be adding more actions and tweaking some values until the game actually starts. Feel free to give feedback.

Town

Track – 90
Roleblock – 90
Vig – 150
Protection – 150
Watch – 150
Busdrive – 180
Investigate – 350

Mafia

Protection – 80
Track – 80
Watch – 150
Frame – 150
??? - 150
Vote steal – 200
Roleblock – 200
??? – 300
??? – 500

[aage]

So we're supposed to buy a vig as soon as we can in order to buy another vig to buy another vig to buy another vig because we're never ever getting enough cash for an investigation, right?

The ??? - 500 sounds very intriguing, but I won't play, sorry.


Edit
Overlooked the bit where we get 100g each round. I had read that this was our starting funds and killing was our only income. Still not in, though, sorry.

[jonty125]

Vig should be more same or more expensive than investigate.

[rishaed]

Put me down as a reserve.

[DoomYoshi]

Vig should be more same or more expensive than investigate.

Agreed. VIg is like a 100% accuracy cop, plus you get money.

EDIT: Cop Investigate is more expensive than frame, which is weird.

EDIT again: If a wagon is formed, and people jump on after lynch, but before scene is posted, do they get a share of the money?

[rishaed]

^i would think that they wouldnt get any money.... they effectively didn't lynch the person so they shouldnt get money from them.

[Rodion]

Agreed. VIg is like a 100% accuracy cop, plus you get money.

But if you target a townie, said townie dies. With a cop, if you target town, town gets to live with an innocent result.

I think Jonty and you are overestimating the value of a vig. Vig is such a dangerous role that vigilantes are usually encouraged not to act. Cops have no such problem.

EDIT: Cop Investigate is more expensive than frame, which is weird.

That's intended. Frame is only good if it hits the exact player that was investigated. I may bump its cost to 200-250, but it should still be cheaper than an investigation.

EDIT again: If a wagon is formed, and people jump on after lynch, but before scene is posted, do they get a share of the money?

After the hammer vote, all votes are invalid.

[aage]

That's intended. Frame is only good if it hits the exact player that was investigated. I may bump its cost to 200-250, but it should still be cheaper than an investigation.

I would back up Rodion on this, the chances of having a "successful" frame are incredibly low.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

IN Like Flynn!!!! this sounds like a blast

[Hank44Soccer]

In please

[DoomYoshi]

Agreed. VIg is like a 100% accuracy cop, plus you get money.

But if you target a townie, said townie dies. With a cop, if you target town, town gets to live with an innocent result.

I think Jonty and you are overestimating the value of a vig. Vig is such a dangerous role that vigilantes are usually encouraged not to act. Cops have no such problem.

I used to hate vig's. Actually on Mafiascum, I started a lengthy discussion about whether vig's should be modkilled for using their role. However, I have since flipped entirely to the other side of the vig/cop debate. This is a matter of perspective, but the most basic argument is that the game is decided at LYLO. When you are at LYLO, you want maximum information. Information gained from a dead player is maximum information. Information gained from a cop is not maximum information, as it has the potential to be tainted.

First off, town living isn't the greatest thing ever. It would be nice if town got a perfect game, but I don't think that's a realistic goal, and I would argue that because it isn't a realistic goal it shouldn't be your goal. You shouldn't be thinking: how can town only lynch scum and not lynch or vig any townies? You instead should be thinking: how can I insure that by LYLO there will be enough correct information for town to win the game?

Second: a cop investigate might still end up getting lynched. I am willing to bet that one of the ???s is a recruit, and as the game progresses, Cop Investigates will be worth less and less. Second, with cheap framing, results will always be in question, regardless of your posited accuracy. Not that I have ever played a great framer (my first mafia game I was a framer), but I know enough now about meta that as mafia, I could figure any frame by night 3 (the first time someone can afford a cop).

Third: without casting doubt on results, the mafia now has a target for killing, as cop-confirmed, while not maximal information is still better than no town information. So, does it matter to a player that you get killed by a vig or you get subsequently killed thanks to the meddling cop? Maybe, but it shouldn't too much.


Anyways, I am going to announce my town strategy now. I am going to do nothing N1 and Vig whoever is scummiest N2. I suggest everyone else do the same, so we get a D2 bloodbath and a D3 LYLO. Not sure if that is the "correct" strategy, but if half of the town uses it, and pushes us to D4 LYLO, we should be winnable.

[DoomYoshi]

Actually, if half vig and half watch, we will have enough info (hopefully).

Does the mafia NK cost money? Is that the ??? @ 150. I understand if you can't tell us.

2 strategies:

N1: P1 tracks P2, P2 tracks P3, ... , P20 tracks P1.

Anyone who kills is busted.

N2 repeat.

This may never end in victory if mafia chooses not to kill, but it is an endgame scenario.

One could argue that mafia doesn't have to track but then the player tracking them would see that they went nowhere and are saving money for a kill.

By the time they can afford a kill (if they have to spend on one), mafia will have won if we haven't lynched them. Essentially making it a nightless game... hmm.

Rodion, I think for this to work, different players are going to need to have slightly different buy-in values, and those values should potentially be mod-enforced hidden.

[superkeener]

screw it... i feel greedy. In please.

[jak111]

In, I promised myself I wouldn't play any more games while I host, but what the hell, you're a good player and this game looks too interesting to pass up XD

[aage]

Might be "interesting", but most roles are pretty useless.

Town

Track – 90 - useless, everyone has all actions
Roleblock – 90 - T/N chance to hit town (which is always >50%) and therefore inefficient to use on mafia
Vig – 150 - best action town has
Protection – 150 - this should have been "bulletproof for 1 round" or something along those lines, or simply be more expensive; this ability can be bought twice every three rounds on base income alone. Even though the rest of town actions suck, this one is actually overpowered.
Watch – 150 - useless, everyone has all actions
Busdrive – 180 - only screws up everything town does
Investigate – 350 - bloody expensive

Mafia

Protection – 80 - why protect, you're mafia
Track – 80 - useless, you have no power roles to find and therefore no actions to track
Watch – 150 - same
Frame – 150 - you have a one in N chance to hit the right guy and an even smaller chance to do so in the correct round, useless
??? - 150 - only interesting ability so far
Vote steal – 200 - only useful if entire mafia group does it at lylo (which then is no longer lylo)
Roleblock – 200 - only actual useful role in the game, since all towns will probably use something by day 3/4
??? – 300 - another interesting ability
??? – 500 - again

Just saying.

Don't take my critique as personal Rodion, I have the best intentions... but half of these actions will either never be used and the game will simply blow itself up by day 2/3 due to excessive vigging.