Haggis_McMutton wrote:My money would be on a space elevator being step 1.
My money is not on that. The implications would be massive and significant. We are talking about a major increase in tech levels that would probably filter down to all sorts of things (you are talking about industrial grade carbon nanotube or boron nitride nanotube technology). Yes we can spin a carbon nanotube into the thickness of a human hair but we have to go orders of magnitude thicker to get the elevator cable.
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.
Here's my somewhat uneducated (but I'm a space-geek!) view of things:
We SHOULD establish a base on the Moon first, but ONLY for production. The Moon has vast resources that we could use as aid to manufacturing/launching capabilities, and since the Moon's gravity is significantly less than that of the Earth, we gain a tremendous amount in that regard as well.
So yes to a base on the Moon, but no to colonization on the Moon. Send that to Mars. Why Mars? Because it's fucking Mars, and I wanna be John Carter, dammit! (My absolute favorite series as a kid) Seriously, though...the gravity on Mars is much closer to the Earth, so you mitigate a lot of the health problems that will arise on the moon (kidney stones, osteoporosis, etc...).
Not only resources but you could have better radio relays on the Moon that wouldn't be subject to atmospheric noise of Earth.
Unfortunately, it will never take off. I am sadly completely convinced that this is either a scam (as they take in funding) or a very misguided plan (as their timeline and such is not very sound).
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?
Note that if you really want to go overboard you locate the -1 G point on the elevator and start building sideways. With a few elevators in place you could easily build a habitation ring around the earth with the earth always being directly above you in the habitation ring. It would be interesting to see where that point would like in relation to the magnetic lines of the earth.
BigBallinStalin wrote:What about something like Heinlein's catapult from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?
Yeah I thought that was a pretty cool idea. Don't know of its actual feasibility, but it sounded plausible to me.
For those who don't know, one of the characters in the book proposes building long catapults on a tall mountain range where stuff is launched horizontally at escape velocity (think like shooting it from a rifle), since you don't actually have to shoot things straight up. Something at escape velocity in any direction will escape provided nothing is in the way. I don't remember the propulsive methods in the book. After that it's just a matter of timing the launches such that they intercept the moon orbital path.
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?
Note that if you really want to go overboard you locate the -1 G point on the elevator and start building sideways. With a few elevators in place you could easily build a habitation ring around the earth with the earth always being directly above you in the habitation ring. It would be interesting to see where that point would like in relation to the magnetic lines of the earth.
Somehow that picture doesn't look right. How far out is the counterweight that its CoM is so far away from the Earth? The Moon-Earth CoM is something like 1000 miles below Earth's surface (and I assume that we can't build anything rivaling the Moon's mass).
2dimes wrote:The fact that it has not returned to the moon probably is due to a reason.
Yes there was never a reason to do so. We only went to the Moon for two reasons; to really prove ICBM technology and to keep the Soviets from getting there first and doing nuclear testing on the dark side of the moon. Real space exploration was never an issue. Real space exploration wanted to build an orbiting station first and go from there.
Besides there was only one person in the entire history of US space flight; George M Lowe. Before him we had the disaster that was Apollo 1, After he left to become President of R.P.I. NASA slowly went to hell in a hand basket. We settled on near orbit stations that could be supplied by a shuttle that could only get to near earth orbit.
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?
Note that if you really want to go overboard you locate the -1 G point on the elevator and start building sideways. With a few elevators in place you could easily build a habitation ring around the earth with the earth always being directly above you in the habitation ring. It would be interesting to see where that point would like in relation to the magnetic lines of the earth.
Not.... possible... I don't think.. lol. Not very efficient wither.. Plus it would be weird as shit.. "Mommy mommy, whats THAT star?" "Well son, its a giant elevator in the sky...."
I smell another tooth fairy type thing coming on..
Nobunaga wrote:Three necessary reads to make this trip:
...
...
I'm 2/3ds of the way there then. I've never heard of the first one by Dick, but I've read the other two (I'm not much of a Bova fan, and didn't care for that one).
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
In 2018, the planets will literally align, offering a unique orbit opportunity to travel to Mars and back to Earth in only 501 days. Inspiration Mars is committed to sending a two-person American crew – a man and a woman – on an historic journey to fly within 100 miles around the Red Planet and return to Earth safely.
The mission’s target launch date is Jan. 5, 2018. This exceptionally quick, free-return orbit opportunity occurs twice every 15 years. After 2018, the next opportunity won’t occur again until 2031. The mission will provide a platform for unprecedented science, engineering and education opportunities, using state-of-the-art technologies derived from NASA and the International Space Station. It will be financed primarily through philanthropic donations, with some potential support from government sources.
This mission will be a flyby passing within 100 miles of the surface of Mars. Additional maneuvers will be minor course corrections only, using the gravitational influence of Mars to “slingshot” the vehicle onto a return course to Earth. An inflatable habitat module will be deployed after launch and detached prior to re-entry.
So to re-cap
NASA wants to go to Mars in 2031, China plans to go there in 2040, and Russia will be ready by 2021. But Mars One and Inspiration Mars are being put together by enthusiastic space-heads.
http://www.marsinitiative.org/ ^ Will pay the first entity that lands on Mars with the intention of colonization with everything in it's coffers.
Juan_Bottom wrote:NASA wants to go to Mars in 2031, China plans to go there in 2040, and Russia will be ready by 2021. But Mars One and Inspiration Mars are being put together by enthusiastic space-heads.
Bush wanted us there earlier than 2021 (via the Moon first). Obama has further restricted that by essentially gutting the Constellation program.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Juan_Bottom wrote:NASA wants to go to Mars in 2031, China plans to go there in 2040, and Russia will be ready by 2021. But Mars One and Inspiration Mars are being put together by enthusiastic space-heads.
Bush wanted us there earlier than 2021 (via the Moon first). Obama has further restricted that by essentially gutting the Constellation program.
Goddamn Obama! Always cutting government budgets! We need to go back to that big government guy - Bush.
MegaProphet wrote:What are the benefits of a flyby mission? Is there anything to be learned from one?
Of Mars? We were doing that in the 1960s.
We've got four rovers (two actually active) on Mars now, if I remember correctly.
Heck, we've got two probes who are well outside of our Solar System now and travelling at about a million miles per day. Pretty soon one of them will crash into an alien space probe and we'll need the Enterprise to get out there and save us.
Last edited by Woodruff on Fri May 10, 2013 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Juan_Bottom wrote:NASA wants to go to Mars in 2031, China plans to go there in 2040, and Russia will be ready by 2021. But Mars One and Inspiration Mars are being put together by enthusiastic space-heads.
Bush wanted us there earlier than 2021 (via the Moon first). Obama has further restricted that by essentially gutting the Constellation program.
Goddamn Obama! Always cutting government budgets! We need to go back to that big government guy - Bush.
The NASA budget for getting to Mars was almost negligible. Aside from that though, I am a firm believer that the benefits of space exploration far outweight the meager costs.
Really pisses me off.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
MegaProphet wrote:What are the benefits of a flyby mission? Is there anything to be learned from one?
Absolutely. All the technology to do it has yet to be invented.
But! we do have a firm grasp on how to do everything, we just need the capital to start. I mean-uh, if we could just get funding of a trillion dollars, we could terraform Mars in about 100 years. How cool would that be? I know.... a trillion dollars sounds like a lot of money when everybody is poor and there's wars and stuff. But is it really a lot of money to buy a second Earth?
MegaProphet wrote:What are the benefits of a flyby mission? Is there anything to be learned from one?
Of Mars? We were doing that in the 1960s.
We've got four rovers (two actually active) on Mars now, if I remember correctly.
Heck, we've got two probes who are well outside of our Solar System now and travelling at about a million miles per day. Pretty soon one of them will crash into an alien space probe and we'll need the Enterprise to get out there and save us.
I guess what I'm saying is will having two humans fly around the planet without landing give a better opportunity to learn than the rovers can offer? I just don't see the point of sending humans if they aren't going to land and start the terraforming process
