*Community Discussion #2* - New Deadbeat Rule?

[JamesKer1]

We want to hear from you. Often times, many players have complained about it taking too long for a person to deadbeat out of a game, or for those players who miss two turns and play their third (repeatedly), as well as those in quadruple polymorph games. Many systems have been suggested in the past, but none of them have been quite the right solution. So, we would like to hear the community's opinion on the topic, and see what we can come up with together!

*Both bigWham and blakebowling have voiced support of a new system for deadbeaters that the community can come up with on multiple occasions.*

[owenshooter]

i'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out... however, i have heard people voice an opinion for 3 total and you are out (and that would eliminate a very cheap tactic often used)... my real concern is with poly games, as is already being voiced below in the non sticky threads... for poly, it should be 3 consecutive by the team or three overall.. i like the three overall misses, but am most concerned with the poly issue being resolved... good on, Big Wham, for addressing this...-el Jesus negro

[blakebowling]

There was also a previous idea to make it 3 consecutive turns or a certain percentage of turns after turn 10 (or so).

[codierose]

stop rewarding the missed turns that might stop peeps from doing it

[BigBallinStalin]

Apply the current rule collectively to a polymorph 'team', and that'll largely fix the problem without bothering others.

[clangfield]

How about whichever occurs first out of 3 consecutively or a set number in total?
I'm thinking that it should maybe 4 or 5 to being with; but to accommodate games that run longer, maybe get an extra allowed one every so-many rounds: perhaps every 10?
So, for example, 4 misses in the first ten rounds would be out; but three in the first 10, then a missed turn at round 11 (or any one time up to and including round 20), would not eliminate. One would then not be able to miss a turn again until round 21, and so on.

[Keefie]

Get rid of the deferred troops for a missed turn. If you miss, tough shit.

I never could understand why this was implemented.

[Bantam]

I think this is being addressed from the wrong angle and we seemingly want to make everything more complicated.
If you miss 3 turns you are out - no consecutive or other calculation. 3 strikes and gone.
But more importantly you get no deferred troops on each missed turn.
What other event would you turn up late for and get to play and get fresh ammunition.

For polymorph you amend it to be 3 misses for the 1 team

[BigBallinStalin]

I think this is being addressed from the wrong angle and we seemingly want to make everything more complicated.
If you miss 3 turns you are out - no consecutive or other calculation. 3 strikes and gone.
But more importantly you get no deferred troops on each missed turn.
What other event would you turn up late for and get to play and get fresh ammunition.

For polymorph you amend it to be 3 misses for the 1 team

So, how do you think this will affect games in the long-run? It's an unnecessarily harsh rule.

If you're going for simplicity (as oppose to some odd preference for hating on the occasional missed turn), then apply the 3-consecutive turn rule to polymorph games. Pretty simple, and this avoids imposing negative consequences on long-run games.

[Gweeedo]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

[Metsfanmax]

Logically, independent of the code, it should not be a "new system" to have a user who deadbeats out of one player on a polymorph game, deadbeat out of all of them. (Even more obvious in the case of someone who is kicked out for violating the rules.) This change ought to be made in any case, because it is not a change in the model of when someone should be kicked out of a game; it is merely applying the existing rule consistently.

James, you're going to quickly run into trouble if you search for the "right" answer. There almost certainly is no right answer, in the sense that you will find overwhelming agreement for that answer. However, there is a wrong answer (the current system) because it allows someone to miss 60 turns in a 100 turn game, and you would find overwhelming agreement that such a situation should not occur. I advise you to search for the solution that appears to be the best compromise and has a reasonable amount of support.

[yourientete]

In my opinion, intentionally missing turn is unfair. You can see it when your opponent is missing a turn with you but not in other games played at the moment. I have seen it in the beginning of escalating games. On the other hand, missing a turn non intentionally do happen.

Defered troops have too much advantages :

1. You can't kill them
2. They can't be zombified or nuked
3. You don't know where this double reinforcement will be parachuted

Proposal for one third decay in deferred troops
It's simple, if you were to receive 3 troops, you receive 2. If you were to receive 25 troops, you receive 17 (using the round function).
I think this would minimize intentionally missed turns.

[Gweeedo]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

As long as you are logged in, you have one hour to complete your move.
This would put a stop to players who intentionally miss turns.

Once you log in, the start button has been activated.
If there is a down side (too many games activated) limit the games that will be activated.

[Extreme Ways]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

As long as you are logged in, you have one hour to complete your move.
This would put a stop to players who intentionally miss turns.

Once you log in, the start button has been activated.
If there is a down side (too many games activated) limit the games that will be activated.

I log in a lot, but I need to stall clangames until I get input sometime. This will kill clangames.

[demonfork]

3 total missed turns, this is a no brainer!

[Gweeedo]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

As long as you are logged in, you have one hour to complete your move.
This would put a stop to players who intentionally miss turns.

Once you log in, the start button has been activated.
If there is a down side (too many games activated) limit the games that will be activated.

I log in a lot, but I need to stall clangames until I get input sometime. This will kill clangames.

Ah, so you are slowing down the game...this can offer new dynamics to the game.
Often times (in War) it is difficult to get orders to the front in a timely fashion.
He who has better communication network will have an advantage.

[owenshooter]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

As long as you are logged in, you have one hour to complete your move.
This would put a stop to players who intentionally miss turns.

Once you log in, the start button has been activated.
If there is a down side (too many games activated) limit the games that will be activated.

I log in a lot, but I need to stall clangames until I get input sometime. This will kill clangames.

or maybe you could just pay for premium and stop whining about how long it takes people to take turns, because you can only have 4 active games at a time. not our issue, wholly on your plate. i log in often to check the forums, look for games i might want to join, see if games have started, check global, look at certain threads, etc... maybe i'll rattle off one or two turns, depending on how much time i have and if i'm waiting for input in a team game... forcing people to play within an hour is just non-sensical. there are time limits set on turns for a reason, and one of them isn't "gweedo is too cheap to pay for premium, so please play within 1 hour of logging in."

however, i still stand by 3 total missed turns AND/OR get rid of deferred troops... too many people use it as a cheap tactic...-Jésus noir™

Ah, so you are slowing down the game...this can offer new dynamics to the game.
Often times (in War) it is difficult to get orders to the front in a timely fashion.
He who has better communication network will have an advantage.

[Extreme Ways]

Maybe you could apply some kind of game start, once a player logs in.
I have noticed players logging in while ignoring certain game/turn....logging in and selecting what games they wish to make their move, ignoring other games altogether.
Logging in will automatically start your games for you.



I'm good with the current system of 3 and you are out...

As long as you are logged in, you have one hour to complete your move.
This would put a stop to players who intentionally miss turns.

Once you log in, the start button has been activated.
If there is a down side (too many games activated) limit the games that will be activated.

I log in a lot, but I need to stall clangames until I get input sometime. This will kill clangames.

Ah, so you are slowing down the game...this can offer new dynamics to the game.
Often times (in War) it is difficult to get orders to the front in a timely fashion.
He who has better communication network will have an advantage.

or maybe you could just pay for premium and stop whining about how long it takes people to take turns, because you can only have 4 active games at a time. not our issue, wholly on your plate. i log in often to check the forums, look for games i might want to join, see if games have started, check global, look at certain threads, etc... maybe i'll rattle off one or two turns, depending on how much time i have and if i'm waiting for input in a team game... forcing people to play within an hour is just non-sensical. there are time limits set on turns for a reason, and one of them isn't "gweedo is too cheap to pay for premium, so please play within 1 hour of logging in."

however, i still stand by 3 total missed turns AND/OR get rid of deferred troops... too many people use it as a cheap tactic...-Jésus noir™

fixed quote.

[JamesKer1]

Liking where this is headed- keep in mind that three missed turns total is nothing in a multi-hundred round game, and there may be some issues with that.

[demonfork]

Liking where this is headed- keep in mind that three missed turns total is nothing in a multi-hundred round game, and there may be some issues with that.

So what. If you cant be bothered to take your turns despite given 3 chances then you shouldn't be in the game regardless of how many rounds

[yourientete]

Liking where this is headed- keep in mind that three missed turns total is nothing in a multi-hundred round game, and there may be some issues with that.

It could be something like : If the number of turn missed is >= 3 and the percentage of turn missed is superior to X% then you're kicked out.

[Donelladan]

I have seen many people asking to remove the deferred troops in case of missed turns.
I hope this is not even an option for the developer.

The deferred troops are never an advantage in comparison to having them on your own turn. Never.

Furthermore I very often miss my first turn in speed game because the fucking pop-up didn't work, and when you wait 30 mins for a 1min speed to start you may miss the 1st turn. Without the deferred troops I would simply lose half of my games directly.

Deferred troops are a small compensation for people that miss turns. And missing a turn happens to everyone, you never know when you'll have a real life issue that will prevent you from taking a turn.



Concering polymorph. I understood the fact that people are not kicked after missing 3 turn on polymorph was a bug, isn't it?? This should be fixed and treated independently of the pbs of people missing many turns in very long games.


Now on the real topic. I barely ever had the problem of people missing many turns but not being kicked because they play 1 turn over 3 or 1 turn over 2.
I think it affect very very few numbers of people and games. I think there is more important stuff to be improved on CC rather than taking care of what I think is a minor problem. Do we have statistics on that?
Nevertheless if the problem has to be adressed, the fix seems simple by making it a percentage of missed turns after 10 rounds as it has been suggested. We can have a more or less complex formula in order to cover most of the case. Several of them has been proposed in the past.
Let say maximum of total 10 missed rounds if the game is less than 100 rounds. I think it is fair.
If it goes to more than 100 rounds just keep it 10% miss round maximum ?

OR 3% maximum of missed rounds after 10 rounds. That is quite harsh but then it make people happy. It means 97% attendance minimum after 10 rounds. And before 10 rounds we simply keep the 3 consecutive miss = kicked out.

[Metsfanmax]

Liking where this is headed- keep in mind that three missed turns total is nothing in a multi-hundred round game, and there may be some issues with that.

So what. If you cant be bothered to take your turns despite given 3 chances then you shouldn't be in the game regardless of how many rounds

Not every case of missing three turns -- especially in a hundred round game -- is the result of pure laziness. And why the focus on 3 turns anyway? What's special about that number?

[Gweeedo]

I am not sure my suggestion even touches base on this topic?
There might be a way you can manipulate (my suggestion) it into working.
I have a few Idea's.


@Extreme Ways: Sorry if I provoked you to anger.
Fact still remains; you are slowing down the game...are you not?
No worries, throughout history there have been many a General kept waiting for Orders (that never come) from central command...never a good thing.
Not my problem.

There is a bigger problem (for freemiums/premiums) with players purposely giving up, before the game begins; having
too many Speed (oh, lookie there...premium) games going on at one time; this Game is already lost for me...no need to continue taking my turn; this kinda attitude skews the game.
Once a player signs in, what could be more important than ''the Game''

Don't presume that the problem is limited to Freemium alone.
I would tend to believe that CC would be more concerned with freemium players, oppose to all others.
You are right in saying that I am cheap..I am.
Becoming a CC premium is not on my list (never was), I want to limit the time spent on this site, no premium for me.
You can have it, I don't want it...its too dicey for me.

Is there a down side holding your turn while you wait for...
Still no room for improvement?

[Dukasaur]

I have seen many people asking to remove the deferred troops in case of missed turns.
I hope this is not even an option for the developer.

The deferred troops are never an advantage in comparison to having them on your own turn. Never.

Furthermore I very often miss my first turn in speed game because the fucking pop-up didn't work, and when you wait 30 mins for a 1min speed to start you may miss the 1st turn. Without the deferred troops I would simply lose half of my games directly.

Deferred troops are a small compensation for people that miss turns. And missing a turn happens to everyone, you never know when you'll have a real life issue that will prevent you from taking a turn.



Concering polymorph. I understood the fact that people are not kicked after missing 3 turn on polymorph was a bug, isn't it?? This should be fixed and treated independently of the pbs of people missing many turns in very long games.


Now on the real topic. I barely ever had the problem of people missing many turns but not being kicked because they play 1 turn over 3 or 1 turn over 2.
I think it affect very very few numbers of people and games. I think there is more important stuff to be improved on CC rather than taking care of what I think is a minor problem. Do we have statistics on that?
Nevertheless if the problem has to be adressed, the fix seems simple by making it a percentage of missed turns after 10 rounds as it has been suggested. We can have a more or less complex formula in order to cover most of the case. Several of them has been proposed in the past.
Let say maximum of total 10 missed rounds if the game is less than 100 rounds. I think it is fair.
If it goes to more than 100 rounds just keep it 10% miss round maximum ?

OR 3% maximum of missed rounds after 10 rounds. That is quite harsh but then it make people happy. It means 97% attendance minimum after 10 rounds. And before 10 rounds we simply keep the 3 consecutive miss = kicked out.

+1