[GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

[IcePack]

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

[clangfield]

Never going to happen I'm afraid.

[Silly Knig-it]

If the losing player cares at all about other people they will pay attention and play it out. It doesn't take long to hit deploy, end, end.

[BrutalBob]

+1

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

With respect, you have only played 9 speed trench games so the tedium of playing t out may not really affect you.

[IcePack]

+1

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

With respect, you have only played 9 speed trench games so the tedium of playing t out may not really affect you.

I understand that, but speed in general isn't my thing and part of the reason I wouldn't play speed + trench is because the lack of people finishing the actual games. It gets very frustrating, this suggestion wouldn't change it

[Donelladan]

If the losing player cares at all about other people they will pay attention and play it out. It doesn't take long to hit deploy, end, end.

I am not speaking about an hypothetic ideal world. I am speaking about reality here. I've said it in my first post. Deadbeating trench speed game is the norm for regular trench speed players.
This is an issue. We should do something about it. And it's getting worse.

And no the losing player doesn't care most of the time. Lot of speed players aren't nice at all. But this isn't what we should be talking about. We are not going to be able to change that

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

.

Why ?

In trench game we know when it's over and there is absolutely no point playing the game when it's over.
Try following : feudal epic poly (4) trench game - USA 2.1 poly(4) trench game. Those are quite terrible to deadbeat and took a lot of times to finish if you don't deadbeat them anyway
But sames goes for 1vs1 feudal epic trench game ( we are speaking of 23k speed games with those setting, so it's a relatively common game). The map is big, and it can take more than 10 turns to finish it. Yeah 10 turns aren't that long. But it's 10 turns for nothing. And when you play this map a lot it's quite boring to have to do that every fucking time you play the map.

This is true for speed, in which people deadbeat, and it's annoying for one of them. ( the one that stay).
But it's also true for 24h games, in which people don't deadbeat, but it's equally annoying to have to finish those game.

I believe you don't get it ( I see you only have a silver trench medal ) so just believe us - the trench players - we need it.

But give me a reason why in a 1vs1 game we shouldn't have a concede button ?
Is it people will simply click the button and give up the game rather than trying ? Already the case in trench speed. I can give you tons of example of people deadbeating very early, sometimes even before round 4 ( concede button should be available by round 4 only in my suggestion ).

[Donelladan]

I understand that, but speed in general isn't my thing and part of the reason I wouldn't play speed + trench is because the lack of people finishing the actual games. It gets very frustrating, this suggestion wouldn't change it

I am lost.
Let's assume you are playing baltic crusade game ( you seems to know the map a bit).
Let's assume we are round 5, you have four +3 auto deploy, 15 regions, your opponent has 7 regions and a +1 auto deploy only.
Also you are on your way to take or prevent your opponent to take most of the other +3 auto.
What's the point of playing the game ? It's over.

What is frustrating is your opponent leaving in the middle of the game without saying a word. And you having to wait 3 turns so that the game get over. My suggestion would change that.

[Rodion]

+1 to the OP.

[clangfield]

If the losing player cares at all about other people they will pay attention and play it out. It doesn't take long to hit deploy, end, end.

I am not speaking about an hypothetic ideal world. I am speaking about reality here. I've said it in my first post. Deadbeating trench speed game is the norm for regular trench speed players.
This is an issue. We should do something about it. And it's getting worse.

And no the losing player doesn't care most of the time. Lot of speed players aren't nice at all. But this isn't what we should be talking about. We are not going to be able to change that

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

.

Why ?

In trench game we know when it's over and there is absolutely no point playing the game when it's over.
Try following : feudal epic poly (4) trench game - USA 2.1 poly(4) trench game. Those are quite terrible to deadbeat and took a lot of times to finish if you don't deadbeat them anyway
But sames goes for 1vs1 feudal epic trench game ( we are speaking of 23k speed games with those setting, so it's a relatively common game). The map is big, and it can take more than 10 turns to finish it. Yeah 10 turns aren't that long. But it's 10 turns for nothing. And when you play this map a lot it's quite boring to have to do that every fucking time you play the map.

This is true for speed, in which people deadbeat, and it's annoying for one of them. ( the one that stay).
But it's also true for 24h games, in which people don't deadbeat, but it's equally annoying to have to finish those game.

I believe you don't get it ( I see you only have a silver trench medal ) so just believe us - the trench players - we need it.

But give me a reason why in a 1vs1 game we shouldn't have a concede button ?

Because there are some pathetic people who will set up 1v1 games against their multi account, concede as soon as is permissible, and gain themselves "vital" points. Unfortunately it's the abuse of it that rules it out.

[Donelladan]

Because there are some pathetic people who will set up 1v1 games against their multi account, concede as soon as is permissible, and gain themselves "vital" points. Unfortunately it's the abuse of it that rules it out.

What prevent them to do so and let the multi deadbeat currently ? How does it change anything ?
Or if i play doodle earth and suicide all my troops I can lose in less than 4 rounds. It's faster than using an eventuel concede button.
Also if someone does it as soon as is permissible in 1vs1 again his multi he'd be easily noticed and reported... just like currently.

The kind of abuse you describe is already possible, this suggestion doesn't change anything.

[IcePack]

I've always been against the concede button. The only instance where I go from against to neutral is trench games. But even then it's not something I really like the idea of

.

Why ?

In trench game we know when it's over and there is absolutely no point playing the game when it's over.
Try following : feudal epic poly (4) trench game - USA 2.1 poly(4) trench game. Those are quite terrible to deadbeat and took a lot of times to finish if you don't deadbeat them anyway
But sames goes for 1vs1 feudal epic trench game ( we are speaking of 23k speed games with those setting, so it's a relatively common game). The map is big, and it can take more than 10 turns to finish it. Yeah 10 turns aren't that long. But it's 10 turns for nothing. And when you play this map a lot it's quite boring to have to do that every fucking time you play the map.

This is true for speed, in which people deadbeat, and it's annoying for one of them. ( the one that stay).
But it's also true for 24h games, in which people don't deadbeat, but it's equally annoying to have to finish those game.

I believe you don't get it ( I see you only have a silver trench medal ) so just believe us - the trench players - we need it.

But give me a reason why in a 1vs1 game we shouldn't have a concede button ?
Is it people will simply click the button and give up the game rather than trying ? Already the case in trench speed. I can give you tons of example of people deadbeating very early, sometimes even before round 4 ( concede button should be available by round 4 only in my suggestion ).

How long are those games you mention? 50 rounds? So why are you playing them if 10 out of 50 rounds is "boring"?
You aren't allowed to deadbeat, speed or not so they shouldn't be doing that anyway!

I "dont get it" because I don't play the settings? Come on Don you are smarter than that. I dont play them because I dont like them, not because I dont understand or "get it". Silver medals in trench have nothing to do with the discussion. Your suggestion isn't new, its not bringing any new suggestion actually. It should be merged with the other 100 threads that have created asking for the same thing. Its been well debated to death, and its annoying to repeat the "why" in every thread. Why should I have to repeat literally what I've said in every other thread because you didn't bother to post in the existing one or read the existing ones?

There are several reasons, but to summarize my feelings on the matter the biggest factor for me is - I like to actually PLAY the game and WIN my battles.
You know how ANNOYING it is to have someone quit halfway through a game because they think its lost? It drives me crazy! I hate it when I sit down for board game night with friends, and I hate it here. I dont like people giving up, I want to be able to complete the escalating sweep, or take over the last territory, to feel the excitement of victory! Its something I enjoy and you earn through the battles. Someone who is "bored" of a game they joined, and then just getting up from the table and quitting is beyond frustrating just because they are losing. Teams in sports dont pack up and leave halfway through the game just because they are down 0-6. Play the game, finish it out, HELL maybe you can learn something from the person who just beat you!

Somebody being able to quit and take that emotion and excitement away would literally defeat the point of my playing the game. It takes the fun completely out of it.

Not only that, but in the past people have proposed / said "why dont we make it so both parties have to agree to the concession". Imagine how pissed you and everyone else will be and how much abuse will come to players who want to actually PLAY the game instead of accepting someones resignation? It will be "expected" to accept it and players chastized for wanting to play it out instead of quitting.

Sorry, but I'm here to have fun and this type of thing takes away the fun factor for me. that is the biggest reason why I always say no, will continue to say no, and have said no in the past.
And the attitude of "you dont know what you are talking about because you only have silver in trench medal" is BS.

[IcePack]

Mods:
Here is the thread this can be merged with.

viewtopic.php?p=1313#p1313

[Donelladan]

I wrote a very long answer to all you said. Replying you to everything point by point, but then I realized, it's not really important.
I hope you take a few second to try to consider what I am saying here without thinking of all the past suggestions about this concede button and your opposition to this one which is by principle.

So :

Somebody being able to quit and take that emotion and excitement away would literally defeat the point of my playing the game. It takes the fun completely out of it.

This is already happening. My suggestion does not allow you to quit and take that emotion and excitement away. People can already do that, then only need to start to deadbeat.

This is the real issue at hand here. It is already accepted by more or less everyone involved in the speed trench community that when the game is lost one can start to deadbeat. The thing you don't want, people quitting, is happening all the time. The fun is already being taken out.

The problem is, because it became such a common thing to deadbeat - some start to deadbeat no-trench speed game as well, or deadbeat trench game even though it would be faster to actually play out the game. It is getting worse.

I am not creating a problem. I am trying to fix one. The problem is already here. We need to fix that problem.

Sorry, but I'm here to have fun and this type of thing takes away the fun factor for me. that is the biggest reason why I always say no, will continue to say no, and have said no in the past.
And the attitude of "you dont know what you are talking about because you only have silver in trench medal" is BS.

See, you aren't playing this setting because people deadbeat them.
Meaning, first, fun is already not here, already a problem. Second, you aren't playing those setting, therefore a concede button for trench game only wouldn't be taking the fun out of the game for you.
I am assuming between 90 to 100% of the regular speed trench players are agreeing with my suggestion ( based on the fact that the same amount is deadbeating regularly).

But I hear what you say, and I can agree with you, this concede button is not necessary in no-trench game. I actually made the suggestion because I am seeing more and more people deadbeating no-trench speed game and this is taking the fun out of it for me. Therefore I'll edit my first post to make it trench only.

PS : I've talked to this previous suggestion mod about making a new topic about it. He told me to go ahead with it, that he would push it with developer if I was able to gather support. It was few months ago and I believe this mod now stepped down and I don't know about the new suggestion mod.

[BrutalBob]

To my mind the general consensus of people that I have played speed games against (an my own opinion) is that deadbeating a speed game is fine.

If thats the way most people want to play the game, then why not let them. Simple.

(@Ice) Saying that this would be destroying your theoretical enjoyment of the game should you ever decide to play one is not really an argument.

Deadbeating is what is happening now. Having the concede would tidy a few things up like-

1. Currently someone says will db but if you dont know them then you might have to hang around to make sure they do in fact db. With a concede button you could be sure they are not going come back and start playing after two missed turns and knife you. (And the answer to this is not that they shouldnt be deadbeating- everyone is doing it).

2. Speed games are designed for speedy play. This game is over, bang, lets just move on to the next one. Thats the idea of speed.

[IcePack]

BB,
Not so simple. Just because a sub group in the Community decides that something against the rules is "ok" (which it isn't) doesn't mean it should be allowed. If a group decides secret diplomacy is ok, or being a multi is ok, and start practising that against the rules - it doesn't then allow them to say "see everyone here thinks its ok and already does it, so we should just let it happen!" Wrong.

It is not my "theoretical enjoyment" of a game. I play the game, thats my stance on ALL games, not just non speed or speed.

Better enforcement against deadbeaters in this game catagory would also solve #1, because then people wouldn't deadbeat.
And I'm sorry but saying, "the end of the game is super boring so I choose to ignore the deadbeating rules in trench or trench speed" is NOT an excuse for rule breaking, and should be enforced better. If you think its boring, dont play it. Otherwise, STAY WITHIN THE RULES.

To my mind the general consensus of people that I have played speed games against (an my own opinion) is that deadbeating a speed game is fine.

If thats the way most people want to play the game, then why not let them. Simple.

(@Ice) Saying that this would be destroying your theoretical enjoyment of the game should you ever decide to play one is not really an argument.

Deadbeating is what is happening now. Having the concede would tidy a few things up like-

1. Currently someone says will db but if you dont know them then you might have to hang around to make sure they do in fact db. With a concede button you could be sure they are not going come back and start playing after two missed turns and knife you. (And the answer to this is not that they shouldnt be deadbeating- everyone is doing it).

2. Speed games are designed for speedy play. This game is over, bang, lets just move on to the next one. Thats the idea of speed.

Don,
Again, "this is already happening" is not an excuse to continue breaking the rules or that it should be allowed or condoned. if anything, it should be better enforced so that people dont deadbeat and quit the game! As I stated above, just because "its accepted more or less" to deadbeat, doesn't mean its right. Guess what, the admin have stated multiple times that its STILL against the rules and if you do it to much / someone calls you out on it, its still considered intentional deadbeating. Fixing the problem should not be by encouraging people to quit more games / sooner. It just creates a new problem in exchange for a different problem.

Somebody being able to quit and take that emotion and excitement away would literally defeat the point of my playing the game. It takes the fun completely out of it.

This is already happening. My suggestion does not allow you to quit and take that emotion and excitement away. People can already do that, then only need to start to deadbeat.

This is the real issue at hand here. It is already accepted by more or less everyone involved in the speed trench community that when the game is lost one can start to deadbeat. The thing you don't want, people quitting, is happening all the time. The fun is already being taken out.

The problem is, because it became such a common thing to deadbeat - some start to deadbeat no-trench speed game as well, or deadbeat trench game even though it would be faster to actually play out the game. It is getting worse.

I am not creating a problem. I am trying to fix one. The problem is already here. We need to fix that problem.

Sorry, but I'm here to have fun and this type of thing takes away the fun factor for me. that is the biggest reason why I always say no, will continue to say no, and have said no in the past.
And the attitude of "you dont know what you are talking about because you only have silver in trench medal" is BS.

See, you aren't playing this setting because people deadbeat them.
Meaning, first, fun is already not here, already a problem. Second, you aren't playing those setting, therefore a concede button for trench game only wouldn't be taking the fun out of the game for you.
I am assuming between 90 to 100% of the regular speed trench players are agreeing with my suggestion ( based on the fact that the same amount is deadbeating regularly).

But I hear what you say, and I can agree with you, this concede button is not necessary in no-trench game. I actually made the suggestion because I am seeing more and more people deadbeating no-trench speed game and this is taking the fun out of it for me. Therefore I'll edit my first post to make it trench only.

PS : I've talked to this previous suggestion mod about making a new topic about it. He told me to go ahead with it, that he would push it with developer if I was able to gather support. It was few months ago and I believe this mod now stepped down and I don't know about the new suggestion mod.

[Donelladan]

Enforce the rule, actually make it that people deadbeating speed trench are punished : you would just kill the setting.

I have no feud with you, I love this website, and I want it to become better. Trench is an awesome addition to the website, trench is a very popular setting. But a concede button should go with trench. It make sense.

Don,
Again, "this is already happening" is not an excuse to continue breaking the rules or that it should be allowed or condoned. if anything, it should be better enforced so that people dont deadbeat and quit the game! As I stated above, just because "its accepted more or less" to deadbeat, doesn't mean its right. Guess what, the admin have stated multiple times that its STILL against the rules and if you do it to much / someone calls you out on it, its still considered intentional deadbeating. Fixing the problem should not be by encouraging people to quit more games / sooner. It just creates a new problem in exchange for a different problem.

Which problem does it create ? - You totally fail to show it would create problem.
The only problem you spoke about, is that it would take the enjoyment out of the game for you.
But you don't play the setting, so how is that a problem ?

And for god's sake there is not a single speed trench player that think deadbeating is forbidden. See that's why I told you you don't have the experience so you don't get it. That wasn't bs.
You don't want a concede button for you. But you don't play that setting. You won't have the damned button. Let us have it.


Game 13411554
Game 16114389

Seriously, care to explain ? You've played 9 speed trench. Lost 6 of them, managed to deadbeat 2 of that.
Didn't you think that's that spanish trench armada poly (2) game was lost, and that there was no fun neither for you nor for your opponent anymore ? Well, because if it's the case I think you were right.


- bottom line : I am still looking for why a concede button only for 1vs1 ( and poly) and only for trench game would create any problem.

[Ander023]

i think its a great idea, the winner should have the option of accepting the "white flag" or not though.

[litos29]

For the life of me, I don't understand why this button isn't already part of the game - particularly in trench games, there is no point in playing the game out after it becomes obvious that a game is lost.

And, while deadbeating is effective - it can force the winning player to sit there and stare and wait to ensure that his opponent has deadbeated and not, say, gone off to the bathroom briefly...

[maroshka851]

it's surely a must, we dead beat (or wait for a dead beat) in speed games, because no such a button

[IcePack]

Don,
Sorry if enforcing the RULES makes something "boring" but guess what, its the rules...just like secret diplomacy, or multi. You and your friends can't just choose to start playing with secret diplomacy and then say that because nobody follows it in the group, that it would "kill the fun" of the game if you can't do secret diplomacy.

I'm sorry I dont follow your argument of "you dont play it or have experience, so you can't comment on this". So if you dont do secret diplomacy, you can't comment on secret diplomacy rules? Really? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I said that there were many reasons for it, and theres 73 pages for you to go read on what those other ones are. I said the main one for ME personally was the fun aspect. But it wasn't the only one. But I dont want to recreate 73 pages of arguing in a new thread. Understand now?

I do "get it" from your perspective, you dont need 10,000 games on a setting to "get" something and understand why someone wants a feature.
I also get that you are breaking the rules, and so are many others that play the setting.

If you are looking for the other problems, you can read the other 73 pages of comments once this thread is merged...

Enforce the rule, actually make it that people deadbeating speed trench are punished : you would just kill the setting.

Which problem does it create ? - You totally fail to show it would create problem.
The only problem you spoke about, is that it would take the enjoyment out of the game for you.
But you don't play the setting, so how is that a problem ?

And for god's sake there is not a single speed trench player that think deadbeating is forbidden. See that's why I told you you don't have the experience so you don't get it. That wasn't bs.
You don't want a concede button for you. But you don't play that setting. You won't have the damned button. Let us have it.

Game 13411554
Game 16114389

Seriously, care to explain ? You've played 9 speed trench. Lost 6 of them, managed to deadbeat 2 of that.
Didn't you think that's that spanish trench armada poly (2) game was lost, and that there was no fun neither for you nor for your opponent anymore ? Well, because if it's the case I think you were right.

- bottom line : I am still looking for why a concede button only for 1vs1 ( and poly) and only for trench game would create any problem.

[bandini02]

Please do this.

[Stbtgal]

Have to agree that a concede button would be nice for speed games.

[keck_11]

I am a big supporter of the concede button. I will leave it at that, but I agree with all of the comments of why there should a be concede button!!

[malabrosse]

I support this option for two players as it is described.

[Metsfanmax]

Merged.

This has been proposed before and was not implemented then. It is vastly unlikely in any circumstance that such an option will be implemented.