WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

[Teya]

I cant see shadows either. Oh well.

I also think the attack lines need to be straight. The non straight ones are very obvious.

[Wisse]

look:

if you don't see a shade now you are blind

[Teya]

Wisse, I can see it in your zoomed version, but not on the actual map. Maybe I am just blind.

edit: ok, I can see them now.

[KEYOGI]

Ok, browser refresh did the trick.

The shadows for the ships are great, they look more like part of the board now. I think with the aircraft you could do one of two things. 1. Reduce the distance between the shadow and the aircraft, or... 2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

Taking into consideration what you said about the time and so on (nice touch by the way), I think the second option would be more appropriate.

[Wisse]

ow p.s sorry if that picture was too big i don't see it as big as most people do because of my 23' inch screen (1920 x 1200)

[DiM]

2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

definitely option 2. reduce the size so that the airplanes appear to be at a considerable height. right now it looks like they are a few feet above the ground

[cairnswk]

Ok, browser refresh did the trick.

The shadows for the ships are great, they look more like part of the board now. I think with the aircraft you could do one of two things. 1. Reduce the distance between the shadow and the aircraft, or... 2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

Taking into consideration what you said about the time and so on (nice touch by the way), I think the second option would be more appropriate.

Keyogi...here is the solution to aircraft attack lines i think...and the reduction in the size of the aircraft shadows....also didn't mean to be offensive in saying you must be blind...just surprised you couldn't see it when i knew it had been uploaded!
Hope this looks good.

[cairnswk]

2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

definitely option 2. reduce the size so that the airplanes appear to be at a considerable height. right now it looks like they are a few feet above the ground

And DiM...options 2 implemented in V13 Large below

[Sparqs]

2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

definitely option 2. reduce the size so that the airplanes appear to be at a considerable height. right now it looks like they are a few feet above the ground

Shadow sizes do not change based on height of the shadow-caster above the ground. And if they did they would get larger, like moving your hand towards the light when making shadow puppets. Since this is supposed to represent planes close to water, the sizes shouldn't be too different. Of course, we have some very large planes compared to some land features, but artistic license...

By reducing the size of the shadows what you've done is bring the camera view closer to the planes (we are now right above the planes and the shadows are far from us, thus they appear smaller). To change the height indicated by the shadows, change their distance from the planes.

This view seems fine to me - it just means we are looking at the map from a point directly above the planes.

[KEYOGI]

I like the new aircraft shadows, to me at least they seem a good size and distance. One little thing though, is perhaps you could play around with the transparency of them. A shadow doesn't completely block out what's underneath it. This is only really noticeable on the coastlines, but I think you should still be able to see some detail through the shadows.

New aircraft attack lines are nice also. In my opinion, they look more like appropriate.

[cairnswk]

2. Reduce the size of the shadows for the aircraft.

definitely option 2. reduce the size so that the airplanes appear to be at a considerable height. right now it looks like they are a few feet above the ground

Shadow sizes do not change based on height of the shadow-caster above the ground. And if they did they would get larger, like moving your hand towards the light when making shadow puppets. Since this is supposed to represent planes close to water, the sizes shouldn't be too different. Of course, we have some very large planes compared to some land features, but artistic license...

By reducing the size of the shadows what you've done is bring the camera view closer to the planes (we are now right above the planes and the shadows are far from us, thus they appear smaller). To change the height indicated by the shadows, change their distance from the planes.

This view seems fine to me - it just means we are looking at the map from a point directly above the planes.

Thanks Sparqs. Don't forget that this event took place at 7:57am in the morning, with the sun rising in the SE, i feel the shadows might have been some distance from the aircraft by degree of angle of aircraft to the sun.

[cairnswk]

I like the new aircraft shadows, to me at least they seem a good size and distance. One little thing though, is perhaps you could play around with the transparency of them. A shadow doesn't completely block out what's underneath it. This is only really noticeable on the coastlines, but I think you should still be able to see some detail through the shadows.

New aircraft attack lines are nice also. In my opinion, they look more like appropriate.

Thanks Keyogi.
Aircraft shadows are changed to 65% transparency in the V13 update bleow....please refresh your browser.

[Sparqs]

Aircraft shadows are changed to 65% transparency in the V13 update bleow....please refresh your browser.

I can't wait to play this map. A few notes:

1) Is it possible to add some small target indicator on the aircraft that are subject to bombardment? You could also add it to the legend, or use it as the bullet for the "AA Bombardments" legend. I suspect it would be too difficult to key the indicators to the AA batteries, which would show which AA is firing at the plane - but an indicator that the plane is subject to bombardment would help to remind you to check the legend.
Edit: If you don't like a target indicator, maybe a red glow around the labels for those planes and a matching glow around the bullet point on the legend?

2) Some of the bonus numbers are hard to read in the legend. In particular I can't tell if Cruisers are 2 or 3. Also a little tough to read are numbers for Bombers and Destroyers; and somewhat tough for Naval Yard and SP Tenders.

3) It looks like the Pennsylvania borders both the Dry Dock and the Navy Yard. If so, you might want to change the legend to read "Ships in dock border the Navy Yard and/or Dry Dock". If it just borders the Yard, maybe you could remove the bit that appears to connect to the Dock.

4) It's a little unclear to me which territories you need for the Ford Is. bonus. I don't see stars on the Hangars and Control Tower but I suspect they are part of it. What about about the AAs on the island? I just thought of a suggestion: how about a tiny blob of flag on each related building and along the edge of the runway - and of course the legend.

5) Oil seems to progress from hex to hex: A, upper-right to B, upper-left to C, ur to D, ul to E, ur to F - but then H & G are out of order.

6) You may want to change the legend from "barb-wire" to "barbed wire". It didn't sound right to me, and a google search for "barb-wire" tops off with hits for the comic/movie, as does wikipedia.

Please don't let the number of notes suggest otherwise, I think this map looks great!

[cairnswk]

I can't wait to play this map. A few notes:

1) Is it possible to add some small target indicator on the aircraft that are subject to bombardment? You could also add it to the legend, or use it as the bullet for the "AA Bombardments" legend. I suspect it would be too difficult to key the indicators to the AA batteries, which would show which AA is firing at the plane - but an indicator that the plane is subject to bombardment would help to remind you to check the legend.
Edit: If you don't like a target indicator, maybe a red glow around the labels for those planes and a matching glow around the bullet point on the legend?

2) Some of the bonus numbers are hard to read in the legend. In particular I can't tell if Cruisers are 2 or 3. Also a little tough to read are numbers for Bombers and Destroyers; and somewhat tough for Naval Yard and SP Tenders.

3) It looks like the Pennsylvania borders both the Dry Dock and the Navy Yard. If so, you might want to change the legend to read "Ships in dock border the Navy Yard and/or Dry Dock". If it just borders the Yard, maybe you could remove the bit that appears to connect to the Dock.

4) It's a little unclear to me which territories you need for the Ford Is. bonus. I don't see stars on the Hangars and Control Tower but I suspect they are part of it. What about about the AAs on the island? I just thought of a suggestion: how about a tiny blob of flag on each related building and along the edge of the runway - and of course the legend.

5) Oil seems to progress from hex to hex: A, upper-right to B, upper-left to C, ur to D, ul to E, ur to F - but then H & G are out of order.

6) You may want to change the legend from "barb-wire" to "barbed wire". It didn't sound right to me, and a google search for "barb-wire" tops off with hits for the comic/movie, as does wikipedia.

Please don't let the number of notes suggest otherwise, I think this map looks great!

Sparqs....glad to hear you're looking forward to playing on this one.
I'd be happy to look at all of those suggestions, they are not unreasonable, although I will have to think about the AA Bombardments issue.

[Sparqs]

I'd be happy to look at all of those suggestions, they are not unreasonable, although I will have to think about the AA Bombardments issue.

Great!

While taking another look at:

4) It's a little unclear to me which territories you need for the Ford Is. bonus. I don't see stars on the Hangars and Control Tower but I suspect they are part of it. What about about the AAs on the island? I just thought of a suggestion: how about a tiny blob of flag on each related building and along the edge of the runway - and of course the legend.

I noticed a similar issue with the Naval Yard. I assume that the Naval Yard includes the Navy Yard (and by extension, the Dry Dock) but there are no orange-roofed buildings there. Are they (and the AAs) needed for the bonus? If so, some little shacks with matching roofs would clarify it. If not, maybe you could rename one or the other.

[cairnswk]

1) Is it possible to add some small target indicator on the aircraft that are subject to bombardment? You could also add it to the legend, or use it as the bullet for the "AA Bombardments" legend. I suspect it would be too difficult to key the indicators to the AA batteries, which would show which AA is firing at the plane - but an indicator that the plane is subject to bombardment would help to remind you to check the legend.
Edit: If you don't like a target indicator, maybe a red glow around the labels for those planes and a matching glow around the bullet point on the legend?

AA Bombardments - this one is a bit hard. I tried your suggestions and I'm sorry they look messy and hard to colour code. I'll have to think on this one more. I'm not in favour of adding more bits and pieces as this map is fast filling up with things one has to watch for. I did change the names on AA Bombardments from A,B,C,D to Oil AA, NY AA, FIN AA, FIS AA, I hope that clears this naming and what belongs where issue. Although I really think that players are going to have to use the legend reference to see where thay can bombard.

2) Some of the bonus numbers are hard to read in the legend. In particular I can't tell if Cruisers are 2 or 3. Also a little tough to read are numbers for Bombers and Destroyers; and somewhat tough for Naval Yard and SP Tenders.

Legend re-worked

3) It looks like the Pennsylvania borders both the Dry Dock and the Navy Yard. If so, you might want to change the legend to read "Ships in dock border the Navy Yard and/or Dry Dock". If it just borders the Yard, maybe you could remove the bit that appears to connect to the Dock.

Fixed

4) It's a little unclear to me which territories you need for the Ford Is. bonus. I don't see stars on the Hangars and Control Tower but I suspect they are part of it. What about about the AAs on the island? I just thought of a suggestion: how about a tiny blob of flag on each related building and along the edge of the runway - and of course the legend.

White flag added to all Ford Is terts and the legend - this should be quite clear now.

5) Oil seems to progress from hex to hex: A, upper-right to B, upper-left to C, ur to D, ul to E, ur to F - but then H & G are out of order.

Fixed

6) You may want to change the legend from "barb-wire" to "barbed wire". It didn't sound right to me, and a google search for "barb-wire" tops off with hits for the comic/movie, as does wikipedia.

Fixed

I noticed a similar issue with the Naval Yard. I assume that the Naval Yard includes the Navy Yard (and by extension, the Dry Dock) but there are no orange-roofed buildings there. Are they (and the AAs) needed for the bonus? If so, some little shacks with matching roofs would clarify it. If not, maybe you could rename one or the other.

Fixed with the addition of small orange roofed building.

[Sparqs]

AA Bombardments - this one is a bit hard. I tried your suggestions and I'm sorry they look messy and hard to colour code. I'll have to think on this one more.
...
Legend re-worked
...
Fixed
...
White flag added to all Ford Is terts and the legend - this should be quite clear now.
...
Fixed
...
Fixed
...
Fixed with the addition of small orange roofed building.

Wow! Everything looks great!

I'm slightly confused about something. The Ford Is. AAs are required for the bonus (pennants make that clear) but is the NY AA required for the Naval Yard bonus? No orange roofed shack, but the rename and the FI AAs, make me wonder.

And a question on the aircraft bonus: I assume the any-2 and any-4 bonuses are stepping-stones to holding the whole squadron. What would you think of adding the word "disputed" to the legend to make it clear that owning 6 Kates does not entitle you to +10?
"Within Any Disputed
Aircraft Group"

Edit: I like "Oil AA" and such, but you might also consider "North AA", "South AA", etc. Especially if the NY AA is not required for the Naval Yard bonus.

[cairnswk]

AA Bombardments - this one is a bit hard. I tried your suggestions and I'm sorry they look messy and hard to colour code. I'll have to think on this one more.
...
Legend re-worked
...
Fixed
...
White flag added to all Ford Is terts and the legend - this should be quite clear now.
...
Fixed
...
Fixed
...
Fixed with the addition of small orange roofed building.

Wow! Everything looks great!

Kewel!

I'm slightly confused about something. The Ford Is. AAs are required for the bonus (pennants make that clear) but is the NY AA required for the Naval Yard bonus? No orange roofed shack, but the rename and the FI AAs, make me wonder.

Yes the NY AA belongs to the Navy Yard. Does it relally need a roofed shack if it is named NY AA?

And a question on the aircraft bonus: I assume the any-2 and any-4 bonuses are stepping-stones to holding the whole squadron. What would you think of adding the word "disputed" to the legend to make it clear that owning 6 Kates does not entitle you to +10?
"Within Any Disputed
Aircraft Group"

Is the word disputed the correct word. +2 and +4 are stepping stones to gaining the whole Sections....more suggestions on that one please, don't know about "disputed".

Edit: I like "Oil AA" and such, but you might also consider "North AA", "South AA", etc. Especially if the NY AA is not required for the Naval Yard bonus.

NY AA is required for the Bonus as part of the Navy Yard.

[Sparqs]

I'm slightly confused about something. The Ford Is. AAs are required for the bonus (pennants make that clear) but is the NY AA required for the Naval Yard bonus? No orange roofed shack, but the rename and the FI AAs, make me wonder.

Yes the NY AA belongs to the Navy Yard. Does it relally need a roofed shack if it is named NY AA?

Well, I find it a little confusing, especially since the FI AAs now have pennants and all the other Naval Yard spaces have orange roofed shacks. How about if you made something 1/2 the size of the new ones and tucked it part-way under the army-circle, on the east side? Just the triangle of orange would make it clear.

I kind of hate to ask, but you don't need the Oil AA for the Oil Storage bonus, do you?

And a question on the aircraft bonus: I assume the any-2 and any-4 bonuses are stepping-stones to holding the whole squadron. What would you think of adding the word "disputed" to the legend to make it clear that owning 6 Kates does not entitle you to +10?
"Within Any Disputed
Aircraft Group"

Is the word disputed the correct word. +2 and +4 are stepping stones to gaining the whole Sections....more suggestions on that one please, don't know about "disputed".

Well, "disputed" is certainly a correct word, as in "In other news, fighting between rival forces continued in the disputed territory."

It may not be the best word. It's clear to me, but since I came up with it that may not mean much. Searching wikipedia for "disputed territory" got me this: Border Dispute

[cairnswk]

Well, I find it a little confusing, especially since the FI AAs now have pennants and all the other Naval Yard spaces have orange roofed shacks. How about if you made something 1/2 the size of the new ones and tucked it part-way under the army-circle, on the east side? Just the triangle of orange would make it clear.

OK I'll stick a building on it.

I kind of hate to ask, but you don't need the Oil AA for the Oil Storage bonus, do you?

It's staying!!!

Well, "disputed" is certainly a correct word, as in "In other news, fighting between rival forces continued in the disputed territory."

I understand what you are saying here. But will every other player understand this. We need something much simpler to describe that!!!?

[Sparqs]

Well, I find it a little confusing, especially since the FI AAs now have pennants and all the other Naval Yard spaces have orange roofed shacks. How about if you made something 1/2 the size of the new ones and tucked it part-way under the army-circle, on the east side? Just the triangle of orange would make it clear.

OK I'll stick a building on it.

Thanks!

I kind of hate to ask, but you don't need the Oil AA for the Oil Storage bonus, do you?

It's staying!!!

Um, what's staying? You mean the name? Sounds good to me, especially with the orange indicator on the NY AA - I think that and the pennants make it clear that those AAs are part of the bonus areas.

Well, "disputed" is certainly a correct word, as in "In other news, fighting between rival forces continued in the disputed territory."

I understand what you are saying here. But will every other player understand this. We need something much simpler to describe that!!!?

OK. I tried some online thesauri but couldn't come up with anything else. Maybe I'm wrong and the change is unnecessary, but I can say that the first time I looked at Siege! I was very intimidated. It took a while to understand about the camps & gate and such. This map is more complex. I expect most veterans will understand how the aircraft bonus works but noobs may have a difficult time.

Sorry if I sound annoyingly picky, but it's such a great looking map I'd hate to see confusion cause some people to avoid it.

[cairnswk]

Thanks!

OK. I tried some online thesauri but couldn't come up with anything else. Maybe I'm wrong and the change is unnecessary, but I can say that the first time I looked at Siege! I was very intimidated. It took a while to understand about the camps & gate and such. This map is more complex. I expect most veterans will understand how the aircraft bonus works but noobs may have a difficult time.

Uh uh...i have play Siege and got booted very quickly unfortunately.
Yes I would like to get it correct also, but i think that whole expression needs reworking, as adding the word disputed might cause more confusion.
If you come up with something before I do, or anyone else does, then let me know.

Sorry if I sound annoyingly picky, but it's such a great looking map I'd hate to see confusion cause some people to avoid it.

Sparqs...you're not annoyingly picky. I am pleased your are taking the interest to help sort out some of these on behalf of players and the forum. It is very encouraging to say the least.

Now, what i meant is....the Oil AA is staying as part of the OIL STORAGE bonuses. it is needed to make a round 72 terts for good division numbers.

[onbekende]

*obligated post to tell cairnswk to be ready for full review by me in couple days*

[Sparqs]

Now, what i meant is....the Oil AA is staying as part of the OIL STORAGE bonuses. it is needed to make a round 72 terts for good division numbers.

Ah, so the Oil AA is required for the Oil Bonus. Is there any way to add some sort of visual indicator of that? For example, would it be possible to make the territory shape a hex, like the oil storage tanks? Have you already rejected the idea of putting some sort of border around that whole section?

Is the Oil Tap required for the Oil Storage bonus?

For the Aircraft Group legend, how about:
"Within Any Uncontrolled
Aircraft Group"?

[cairnswk]

Ah, so the Oil AA is required for the Oil Bonus. Is there any way to add some sort of visual indicator of that? For example, would it be possible to make the territory shape a hex, like the oil storage tanks? Have you already rejected the idea of putting some sort of border around that whole section?

No i haven't rejected any idea about that and am still mulling that over....in fact hexing those terts is a good idea.

Is the Oil Tap required for the Oil Storage bonus?

yes....and am thinking on border for this also

For the Aircraft Group legend, how about:
"Within Any Uncontrolled
Aircraft Group"?

this still doesn't covey that this bonus is only available up to 1 less than the whole group.
I had thought about:
"Until Aircraft Group taken, within any group" wordy i know but does convey that idea and no questiosn could surely arise from misunderstanding with this. What do you think?