TOFU/S&M Discussion

[IcePack]

But they did good, went out as #1.

But did they ? They went out after losing to the #3 clan.

According to the iScore system, which only takes consideration of events and not pick up wars etc but TOFU ended in 3rd all time

[Swimmerdude99]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

[Extreme Ways]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

Can just wall MTIce no

@CoF I will await explicit permission before I elaborate on the example I mentioned as I don't know if they appreciate being involved. If you are in a hurry, feel free to DM me and I will elaborate in private provided you reply in private should you wish.

[IcePack]

Turning into a festivus airing of grievances and I’m here for it

[Swimmerdude99]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

Can just wall MTIce no

If I wanted it in private, I'd wall him, but I want everyone to know that he said he's a faster swimmer than me and when I asked him his times he "couldn't remember". That's no true competitive swimmer.

Edit: okay trolling over, I swear

[Extreme Ways]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

Can just wall MTIce no

If I wanted it in private, I'd wall him, but I want everyone to know that he said he's a faster swimmer than me and when I asked him his times he "couldn't remember". That's no true competitive swimmer.

Edit: okay trolling over, I swear

I'll reach out to TheSpaceCowboy to reach you.

[chipv]

Perhaps it is time to start a new clan and let Kort rest?
Would be poetic. The old foes heading to the retirement home at the same time.

Taking the TOFU players and keeping future wins on the KORT record, is that right? Anyone squirming?

KORT LIVES!

[LFAW]

Is it unreasonable to want to keep it active/combatant? I don't think so. It was a project I poured years of my life into - I never expected it to come to this - and when I asked to be readmitted in order to save it my request was turned down. Not because TOFU planned to carry on without me, but because the merger with S&M was now the priority and there wasn't a place for me in that scenario.

Well, here we are. The foremost clan now 'social' which let's face it will never work.

What is the problem with me wanting to resurrect it? Why deny me that opportunity? Is it born of spite because I ruffled feathers? Everyone has gone, so I'll start it from scratch if needs must, but at least consider CC is a better place for having more active clans and that everyone who ever was an Odd Fellow would be happier to see it continue and not be resigned to history. Cheers

I wonder if two usergroups could be made - give the clan usergroup to COF, and then create TOFU2.0 or something as a social group that he doesn't own as a splitoff? Migrate forum topics that make sense to the social group? Then have COF add people interested in being in the OG TOFU usergroup/clan so he can rebuild.

IMO this is the best solution - even if it's to the detriment of ACES. We keep another active clan and their history alive whilst also allowing what sounds like a much needed merger to take place.

[detlef]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

lol I kinda did already

[*Pixar*]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

lol I kinda did already

Meh nothing really. Just odd that the guy who poached me to join, is now off to another clan . I now have a good friend and teammate davekettering though so I guess it's not all bad. Just have to remember it's all for fun, while staying somewhat competitive. Remember everyone is a winner in today's soft world

[Swimmerdude99]

If I knew it would have turned out the way LIONS is now, I would have never left!

Does this deserve unpacking? Did he really throw his current clan under the bus?

Absolutely - would you volunteer to go make an inflammatory post to get this drama aired out please? I promise to join in on the prodding

lol I kinda did already

Meh nothing really. Just odd that the guy who poached me to join, is now off to another clan . I now have a good friend and teammate davekettering though so I guess it's not all bad. Just have to remember it's all for fun, while staying somewhat competitive. Remember everyone is a winner in today's soft world

Except you, of course. There are exceptions to everything

[Denise]

Give COF TOFU back, TOFU. It's his clan, based on history. There have been a few years of inconsistency but history and the success TOFU enjoyed in the old days when he was at the helm has to account for a lot.

@EW, so what if he wanted to cut a player because he didn't feel they were good enough? Breaking news! You know as well as I do that's how he's always worked which is 1 reason of his success, back in the day. edited - sorry, EW. This was an unnecessary dig, and uncalled for. I apologize.

I don't always agree with CoF's methods but I've never played as carefully and thoughtfully as when we're teaming together or, for that matter, against each other. CoF is not for everyone but it is undeniably that his methods is what led to TOFU's initial success.

As far as not letting him have TOFU back because it is now social, really? We all know social clans is where active clans go to die. Posts are rare. For socializing on CC, the forum at large is plenty. That's lame, really, and seems a bit vindictive to me.

Alternatively, Swimmer's idea, but I don't know if that's feasible.

[xroads]

Give COF TOFU back, TOFU. It's his clan, based on history. There have been a few years of inconsistency but history and the success TOFU enjoyed in the old days when he was at the helm has to account for a lot.

@EW, so what if he wanted to cut a player because he didn't feel they were good enough? Breaking news! You know as well as I do that's how he's always worked which is 1 reason of his success, back in the day. You don't want to team with COF because of his style? Seems to me you probably should have stuck with the clan that only plays for fun.

I don't always agree with CoF's methods but I've never played as carefully and thoughtfully as when we're teaming together or, for that matter, against each other. CoF is not for everyone but it is undeniably that his methods is what led to TOFU's initial success.

As far as not letting him have TOFU back because it is now social, really? We all know social clans is where active clans go to die. Posts are rare. For socializing on CC, the forum at large is plenty. That's lame, really, and seems a bit vindictive to me.

Alternatively, Swimmer's idea, but I don't know if that's feasible.

This 100%

CC needs active clans, and it would be interesting to see what COF could do starting almost from scratch again. Realistically, what would it hurt at all? Take a vote from all active clans if needed.

[fishydance]

CC needs active clans, and it would be interesting to see what COF could do starting almost from scratch again. Realistically, what would it hurt at all? Take a vote from all active clans if needed.

Clans can’t vote to take a social usergroup away from a the group leader/members and give it to someone else to be made into a competitive clan, nor do the CDs have that authority.

[LFAW]

CC needs active clans, and it would be interesting to see what COF could do starting almost from scratch again. Realistically, what would it hurt at all? Take a vote from all active clans if needed.

Clans can’t vote to take a social usergroup away from a the group leader/members and give it to someone else to be made into a competitive clan, nor do the CDs have that authority.

They can keep the usergroup, it's the Clan and it's legacy that we are arguing for.

[loutil]

Give COF TOFU back, TOFU. It's his clan, based on history. There have been a few years of inconsistency but history and the success TOFU enjoyed in the old days when he was at the helm has to account for a lot.

@EW, so what if he wanted to cut a player because he didn't feel they were good enough? Breaking news! You know as well as I do that's how he's always worked which is 1 reason of his success, back in the day. You don't want to team with COF because of his style? Seems to me you probably should have stuck with the clan that only plays for fun.

I don't always agree with CoF's methods but I've never played as carefully and thoughtfully as when we're teaming together or, for that matter, against each other. CoF is not for everyone but it is undeniably that his methods is what led to TOFU's initial success.

As far as not letting him have TOFU back because it is now social, really? We all know social clans is where active clans go to die. Posts are rare. For socializing on CC, the forum at large is plenty. That's lame, really, and seems a bit vindictive to me.

Alternatively, Swimmer's idea, but I don't know if that's feasible.

Not sure I can agree with you that it is his clan? He has left the clan at least 3 times. You could make that argument in the early years. But, I believe he left in 2014 and did not return until 2017? Left again. Came back. Left again. Further, guys like Rock and Doc ran the clan for many years. When was he last in a position of leadership for TOFU?

[fishydance]

CC needs active clans, and it would be interesting to see what COF could do starting almost from scratch again. Realistically, what would it hurt at all? Take a vote from all active clans if needed.

Clans can’t vote to take a social usergroup away from a the group leader/members and give it to someone else to be made into a competitive clan, nor do the CDs have that authority.

They can keep the usergroup, it's the Clan and it's legacy that we are arguing for.

The issue is that the usergroup is TOFU, and that includes the war record and forum. Just like THOTA is still out there as a social group with its legacy connected to it.

[laughingcavalier]

C'mon guys, you have some responsibility here. I cannot believe that we are on page 2 of this thread and people are offering constructive solutions and even apologising to each other. What has happened to Conquer Club while I have been away? Don't you know this is a feud? You have 14 years of history here. You cannot let this go. Some of us measure our lives by this, and you are letting us down.

Rarely in the field of human gaming has so much bitterness been owed to the signing-up of one player to too many games. Let's not sweep it under the carpet now. This stuff matters.

[IcePack]

https://youtu.be/ixZDTiXiHsc?si=h2Eyx05Su-_xEkDd

[Doc_Brown]

To reiterate something I said earlier in this thread, there was an active discussion in the clan forum about whether to proceed with the merger with S&M, and whether to either bring CoF in to try to restart the clan, or at least to hand off the clan to him once everyone left. The decisions made were by the consensus of the clan membership. Based on the comments in that thread, there are probably 1-2 clan members that would have joined CoF in trying to rebuild TOFU. LFAW expressed interest in CoF rebuilding TOFU, even if it means drawing from ACES membership. To have a successful clan, he'll need to bring in at least 8-10 active members from ACES or other clans. Are you prepared to contribute that much of your clan to seeing TOFU re-established? And to that point, CoF has not been a leader of TOFU since 2013 (maybe early 2014, I don't remember exactly which month he stepped down). So does a leader from more than a decade ago and a group of people with no connection to TOFU have a better claim to the TOFU legacy than the players who have been loyal to the clan through the ups and downs of many years? Could keyborn and I find 10 more people and restart THOTA and claim their legacy? I'm pretty sure no one would reasonably regard this hypothetical restart containing only a small connection to the original as having any meaningful connection to that historic clan or any rightful claim to their legacy and accolades.

[LFAW]

To reiterate something I said earlier in this thread, there was an active discussion in the clan forum about whether to proceed with the merger with S&M, and whether to either bring CoF in to try to restart the clan, or at least to hand off the clan to him once everyone left. The decisions made were by the consensus of the clan membership. Based on the comments in that thread, there are probably 1-2 clan members that would have joined CoF in trying to rebuild TOFU. LFAW expressed interest in CoF rebuilding TOFU, even if it means drawing from ACES membership. To have a successful clan, he'll need to bring in at least 8-10 active members from ACES or other clans. Are you prepared to contribute that much of your clan to seeing TOFU re-established? And to that point, CoF has not been a leader of TOFU since 2013 (maybe early 2014, I don't remember exactly which month he stepped down). So does a leader from more than a decade ago and a group of people with no connection to TOFU have a better claim to the TOFU legacy than the players who have been loyal to the clan through the ups and downs of many years? Could keyborn and I find 10 more people and restart THOTA and claim their legacy? I'm pretty sure no one would reasonably regard this hypothetical restart containing only a small connection to the original as having any meaningful connection to that historic clan or any rightful claim to their legacy and accolades.

Good points. But the THOTA argument has no weight here, we’re talking about resurrecting a clan that dissolved a week ago, not 14 years ago.

When myself and Traf started ACES we said the goal was to make the clan scene better and more competitive. If TOFU or TOFU2 need to draw on clans with healthier memberships that’s fine, but when we started we gained 90% of ours from outside the clan scene because we put the effort in to do so.

That is not to say that you guys did anything wrong by making this decision. I can’t imagine the stress of being THAT consistently good with so few players. But if CoF or any of your clan wanted to keep it going, they should have the opportunity. Again it’s been a week, in the grand history of CC no-one will notice if TOFU needed a year off to rebuild and if that means swallowing some pride to make the clan scene better, so be it.

[Iron Maid]

As a longtime member of TOFU I understand both sides of the story. CoF did a hell of a job to build TOFU. Nevertheless leaving a few times was not helpful imo. Other members like Rock & Doc did a great job to keep TOFU going. To see TOFU go is very disappointing for me. But personally I don't have the energy and time to make contributions.

I would suggest to give users in the TOFU social group the opportunity to edit posts if they don't feel comfortable with those posts and then give TOFU back to CoF.

[Donelladan]

. So does a leader from more than a decade ago and a group of people with no connection to TOFU have a better claim to the TOFU legacy than the players who have been loyal to the clan through the ups and downs of many years?

You're viewing this from a strange point of view to me, since you're not keeping that legacy.
If the question was : who should keep TOFU alive, then indeed the players that have been loyal to the clan through the ups and down seems a reasonable option.
But TOFU doesn't exists at the moment, so you're not claiming anything.
I don't understand why you'd rather have TOFU not exists than have someone else lead it.

[Extreme Ways]

TOFU exists, as a social usergroup of people who were in TOFU when the clan stopped being a competitive clan. Imo the players who disbanded it also have a right to the name in their profile. I like having TOFU in my usergroups because it shows I was once part of TOFU.

From this point of view, all past members should be welcome in this usergroup if they were part of TOFU at some point. From this point of view, I changed my mind and dont mind him joining the social usergroup. I still think CoF has no right to claim the usergroup as competitive usergroup. A clan rising from its ashes would be nice, but to me they do not have more of a claim to the TOFU name than the current members of the social usergroup called TOFU.

Iron Maid summarises it well, though I thus slightly disagree with their conclusion.

[.SCuD.]

It's a real shame to see my first competitive clan disappear.

It's even more of a shame to the clan world. I've posted about this elsewhere, but given the position of CC I really think the competitions need some reconsideration.

I have a lot of personal thoughts on the people involved here after spending years playing with most of them as clan mates, and it's a shame that such drama exists, but it isn't terribly surprising. It's emotional stuff.

I do believe that the future of TOFU is a decision for that member list who closed it down. Sure I sympathise with CoF in not wanting that legacy retired, but I can also sympathise with people who would say "if TOFU is to disband, we want it to retire on a high". and if people like Doc, EW, rockfist, loutil who were all instrumental to TOFU over the years as far more than just players have decided that option 2 is the option they want to take, then really that is their prerogative.

What would I prefer? Well, who cares to be honest.