[OFFICIAL] Charle's Fun Mafia - "Game On" Day 4

[chanakam2020]

What the...

One thing is Son!c OMGUS'ing completely (he attacks me because I have attacked him - typical scum tell), but what are you guys doing bringing AI into this game of psychology and social awareness? I agee with DDS - in spirit not wording (although I appreciate how he has apologised, which takes character) - and I agree with hjelp. Basically, rule 4 has been broken. Obviously, I expect Charle to handle that.

First of all old man with memory issues the game was not talked in pm or any other way with somebody else outside this forum.

So under the non updated rules that was not a violation.

Second chatgtp said you are slighty town (just paranoid). So that is not an attack i believe. It said kongming's answer had scum traits not you.

I am not going to read or infer anything based on what an AI has said about someone else, but you kind of dispute your own point about rule 4. "XYZ said you are slightly town" in which XYZ is not a player, is breaking at the very least the spirit of the rule. I think DDS and Rag have perfectly established why having someone or something else make reads for you is not part of social deduction. DDS' response I will treat as not indicative of their alignment.

I had been softly pushing Chana for being all bone no meat in his contributions to thread and it kinda follows. I was hoping Chana would respond to me calling him out, but alas.

Vote Chanakam
Maybe this will inspire more of a response.

What kind of response are you expecting from me ?
Here in this reply I posted my Apology, I explained my intention about using ChatGPT & My Promise for not using ChatGPT or any similar thing again.

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=242743&start=325#p5364247
.
.
And I did not think it as discussion outside the forum thread when I am doing it at posting it here.
ChatGPT is not a human and for me it is use of a software.
If I use some software like Excel sheet or Google sheet to mark things about each player and use python code extract keywords from forum posts I do not think it consider as a discussion?
And before charles updated Rule No : 04 there was no mention about using software in that rule.
.
Anyway the Game MOD decided it as violation of rules & he gave me a penaly and I accpted it.

So after all that why still dragging discussion of ChatGPT & AI ?

Explain me what kind of response you expecting from me by voting me after all those above explanations by me and Charles ?

[halrob64]

I think Chan made a genuine mistake, he is a nice guy regardless of what role he is playing in the game. As far as I see Charlie has amended the rules, there is no more need to AI chat, lets get on with the game in the spirit it is intended to be played in.
What I want to know is: Where is Max "Headroom" Maxleod and his furtive cohorts?

[SoN!c]

Im with Chanakam and Loose. It was just a funny thing to read.

Im sure if Chanakam would ask the same question today that AI chatbot would cook up a whole different picking order and give a whole different reasoning. People here seem to believe AI already knows who is scum by AI analysing. That is bullshit. Like i said it will give "yes but it could be no too" and vice versa answers on subjects like this..only when it can find scientific pages it will quote them correct. Some day AI will be genius level yes but that is still far from now.

Funny babblefish drool by some chatbot.

Do i believe Kongming is scum because that chatbot said it had scum traits? No. Not one bit. But it was funny to read.

Kongming didn't even react.. he knows that AI babblefish is horseshoe puddled shit. But DDS went nuts when AI called him out. So that was fishy and one thing lead to another..

That is all this big fuss is about. Lets call this storm in a beerglass over.

And get back on track with this great game. I hope with a DDS that sees the public excuses by Chanakam. We are all people and whoever is without a fault throw the first stone. Im not.

[Darin44]

with all that said let get to D2 because I don't like all this AI stuff

unvote, vote no lynch

[Loose Canon]

What the...

One thing is Son!c OMGUS'ing completely (he attacks me because I have attacked him - typical scum tell), but what are you guys doing bringing AI into this game of psychology and social awareness? I agee with DDS - in spirit not wording (although I appreciate how he has apologised, which takes character) - and I agree with hjelp. Basically, rule 4 has been broken. Obviously, I expect Charle to handle that.

First of all old man with memory issues the game was not talked in pm or any other way with somebody else outside this forum.

So under the non updated rules that was not a violation.

Second chatgtp said you are slighty town (just paranoid). So that is not an attack i believe. It said kongming's answer had scum traits not you.

I am not going to read or infer anything based on what an AI has said about someone else, but you kind of dispute your own point about rule 4. "XYZ said you are slightly town" in which XYZ is not a player, is breaking at the very least the spirit of the rule. I think DDS and Rag have perfectly established why having someone or something else make reads for you is not part of social deduction. DDS' response I will treat as not indicative of their alignment.

I had been softly pushing Chana for being all bone no meat in his contributions to thread and it kinda follows. I was hoping Chana would respond to me calling him out, but alas.

Vote Chanakam
Maybe this will inspire more of a response.

Nothing wrong with your argument up to your vote extreme.
It's the vote and the maybe this will inspire more of a response bit that raises my eyebrows.

There's not going to be a lynch D1.
You might get 3 or 4 votes on Chana.

So what was the vote and the maybe inspiring after justification about?

Maybe you want to hold more sway over town votes D2 onwards.
A town extreme is usually resigned to being a mafia target asap.
Setting up to hold sway D2 onwards would be more mafia extreme.

If town has a cop reasonable to think mafia might have a framer.
Maybe lining Chana up to be investigated and framed.

The timing of your attack on Chana was opportune.
The vote and after vote justification has raised my eyebrows, just a bit of opportunity a mafia extreme couldn't resist perhaps.

[Extreme Ways]

Let’s slow this down a bit. Mafia only works if everyone’s on the same page about what counts as fair play.

Using AI tools like ChatGPT mid-game to "help" with reads or arguments is not ok and i get it "undermines" the whole point of social deduction. But i don't think Chanakam (not "chang") had intent whatsoever doing so.

That said, flaming each other about it won’t solve anything by all means. Blowing up the thread does neither. You make a comment and Charle can decide whether it’s a warning, a sub, or a modkill. But this way with this "sober" slander it's blown completely out of porportion. DDS his reaction is out the ball park. The ball he lauched and the flaming intensity it empowers made it fly into space, last seen near Voyager 1..

Let’s keep the focus on the game itself, and let the rules enforcement be handled by the mod only.

Charle will do a great job handling it.

And in the spirit of good sportsmanship i"ll unvote

Hooooold the phone, you never voted Chana for any ChatGPT related stuff. So why unvote?

[Extreme Ways]

So I see not much has really changed in my absence other then a possible town PR claim maybe not a claim. Anything of further interest? I'm all for a lynch D1 as that's our only town weapon to use but right now no one is jumping out as scum to me

The PR claim is a claim and should be ignored for elimination.

Heads up: Im flying to greece (crete) the day after tomorrow for two weeks. I'll be checking in around bed time or breakast (whenever breakfast time is ) from time to time.

Sound like you are going for a Mafia Dons meeting.

Vote SoN!c

Explain?

Spoiler

Chana seems to try fitting in but not actually doing anything. I dont want to move my vote but they are definitely in my scumreads

FP'd by Sonic, inclined to follow

@Chanakam, I voted you for this. Not for any other thing. I dont notice any attempt at solving the game.

[chanakam2020]

@Chanakam, I voted you for this. Not for any other thing. I dont notice any attempt at solving the game.

1. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363202
2. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5363260
3. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5363485
4. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363626
5. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363835

Read my above replies to this thread and tell me what was I doing all this time other than attempting to solving the game. ?
.
I am trying to do some logical reasoning which can convince my brain on solid facts.
The only solid fact known to me up to now in this game is Halrobs claim of town power role.
And I came to a solid conclusion that I should not vote to lynch Halrob on D-1.
.
This is my 3rd game and other two games I played couple of years ago.
So I am not experienced solver as you.
Your way of attempting to solve game should be different and more elegant than mine.

[SoN!c]

Let’s slow this down a bit. Mafia only works if everyone’s on the same page about what counts as fair play.

Using AI tools like ChatGPT mid-game to "help" with reads or arguments is not ok and i get it "undermines" the whole point of social deduction. But i don't think Chanakam (not "chang") had intent whatsoever doing so.

That said, flaming each other about it won’t solve anything by all means. Blowing up the thread does neither. You make a comment and Charle can decide whether it’s a warning, a sub, or a modkill. But this way with this "sober" slander it's blown completely out of porportion. DDS his reaction is out the ball park. The ball he lauched and the flaming intensity it empowers made it fly into space, last seen near Voyager 1..

Let’s keep the focus on the game itself, and let the rules enforcement be handled by the mod only.

Charle will do a great job handling it.

And in the spirit of good sportsmanship i"ll unvote

Hooooold the phone, you never voted Chana for any ChatGPT related stuff. So why unvote?

im voting DDS

[Maxleod]

Oh no, i was sober when all this nonsense started. Drunk now, but you're a damn fool for allowing this. Apology be damned, but if this allowed, and in some god forsaken future i get dragged into mafia on this site again, you, Chana, Loose and I hate Max because he does f*ck all, are black listed just for defending this. I can abide with alot, but absolute ignorance i cannot, and of you four have displayed the most. I wish you all the best, that's I'll i can say, but I'm not doing this again.

Come a again? When exactly did I defend it? Besides, Chatgpt puts me #1 on the suspects list and I just don't care because I never thought ppl were seriously gonna even consider it valuable input (chatgpt's that is).

You're overreacting. Pretty sure nobody gives any credit to a bot in the context of Mafia. This is not chess.

[Charle]

Vote Count:

Chanakan (3) - Kong, DDS, EW
Halrob (2) - Max, Devon
Sonic (1) - Ragian
Kong (1) - hjelp

No Lynch (3) - Loose, Halrob, Darin

With 13 Alive - 7 needed for a lynch

[Charle]

Kingm replaced DDS.

The vote from DDS against Chana still stands until King decides to change the vote.

Welcome King, enjoy the game and thanks for standing in!

Have fun!!

[Kingm]

Kingm replaced DDS.

The vote from DDS against Chana still stands until King decides to change the vote.

Welcome King, enjoy the game and thanks for standing in!

Have fun!!

My pleasure, I was kicking myself for withdrawing, so I'm happy to playing now.
I have been eagerly following the game, but just as a neutral spectator, now I probably have to read it all again.

For now Unvote Chana, have to make up my own mind first.

[SoN!c]

Welcome Kingm !

Very happy Kingm is here xD

But also a bit dissapointed in DDS

[SoN!c]

And just a quickie in case i don't make it tomorrow (on holiday).

Extra protection legal note warning: if i should die tonight a hard copy of all my evidence towards DDS (Kingm now) will be send to the newspapers!

[Extreme Ways]

@Chanakam, I voted you for this. Not for any other thing. I dont notice any attempt at solving the game.

1. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363202
2. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5363260
3. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5363485
4. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363626
5. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5363835

Read my above replies to this thread and tell me what was I doing all this time other than attempting to solving the game. ?
.
I am trying to do some logical reasoning which can convince my brain on solid facts.
The only solid fact known to me up to now in this game is Halrobs claim of town power role.
And I came to a solid conclusion that I should not vote to lynch Halrob on D-1.
.
This is my 3rd game and other two games I played couple of years ago.
So I am not experienced solver as you.
Your way of attempting to solve game should be different and more elegant than mine.

Most of these I would call information instead of analysis.

The number of replies each person has gives me nothing to see if you are trying to figure out someone else's alignment, it's public info. Harping on about role confirmation could be newbie mode, but could also be played up newbie mode.

Asking about lying is the same. It's not figuring out the players in the game, but figuring out the game.

Your hesitancy on bringing Halrob to L-1 is indeed a post worthy of some alignment. And while I think most of your post on "L'état, c'est moi" is again not really game related, it does in the end signal your intentions so I will count it too.

But given that you yourself brought up this as a solving post:

I am waiting to hear from Halrob & Rogue
or
Charles official stand about their silence
+
Waiting to hear from Max about protocol breach
or
Charles official stand about Max not following the protocol

What did you get out of waiting? What made you decide to wait instead of not waiting?

[Extreme Ways]

Let’s slow this down a bit. Mafia only works if everyone’s on the same page about what counts as fair play.

Using AI tools like ChatGPT mid-game to "help" with reads or arguments is not ok and i get it "undermines" the whole point of social deduction. But i don't think Chanakam (not "chang") had intent whatsoever doing so.

That said, flaming each other about it won’t solve anything by all means. Blowing up the thread does neither. You make a comment and Charle can decide whether it’s a warning, a sub, or a modkill. But this way with this "sober" slander it's blown completely out of porportion. DDS his reaction is out the ball park. The ball he lauched and the flaming intensity it empowers made it fly into space, last seen near Voyager 1..

Let’s keep the focus on the game itself, and let the rules enforcement be handled by the mod only.

Charle will do a great job handling it.

And in the spirit of good sportsmanship i"ll unvote

Hooooold the phone, you never voted Chana for any ChatGPT related stuff. So why unvote?

im voting DDS

my bad

[Extreme Ways]

Kingm replaced DDS.

The vote from DDS against Chana still stands until King decides to change the vote.

Welcome King, enjoy the game and thanks for standing in!

Have fun!!

My pleasure, I was kicking myself for withdrawing, so I'm happy to playing now.
I have been eagerly following the game, but just as a neutral spectator, now I probably have to read it all again.

For now Unvote Chana, have to make up my own mind first.

Why do you have to read it again?

Does your rolecard tell you you need to push out townies?

[chanakam2020]

Your hesitancy on bringing Halrob to L-1 is indeed a post worthy of some alignment.

How can I put Halrob to L-1 . Because when Halrob was put to L-2 & when he made claim my vote is already in that 5 votes there and
I cannot vote twice. And Explain me why you expected to put some one claimed town power role to L-1 after he claimed power role & there was no counter claim. Now this is very suspecious to me.

Most of these I would call information instead of analysis.

I do not know how to do analysis without gathering information.
OK , then show me some analysis you did on this game & explain me logics behind your analysis?

But given that you yourself brought up this as a solving post:

I am waiting to hear from Halrob & Rogue
or
Charles official stand about their silence
+
Waiting to hear from Max about protocol breach
or
Charles official stand about Max not following the protocol

What did you get out of waiting? What made you decide to wait instead of not waiting?

Again I was waiting for solid information before analysis & come to a conclusion. Becaue I did not know whether Halrob & Rogue were asked by Game MOD to stay silent or not.
Tell me what did you do to slove game during that period ?

[Loose Canon]

And just a quickie in case i don't make it tomorrow (on holiday).

Extra protection legal note warning: if i should die tonight a hard copy of all my evidence towards DDS (Kingm now) will be send to the newspapers!

The Giornale di Sicilia and La Sicilia?

[SoN!c]

And just a quickie in case i don't make it tomorrow (on holiday).

Extra protection legal note warning: if i should die tonight a hard copy of all my evidence towards DDS (Kingm now) will be send to the newspapers!

The Giornale di Sicilia and La Sicilia?

Yes those too! But mainly the Cretan Good Times and CCNN ofcourse.

[hjelp]

welcome Kingm

A second replacement and because of that I won't vote for a lynch D1.
Unvote Kong
Vote No Lynch

[Extreme Ways]

Your hesitancy on bringing Halrob to L-1 is indeed a post worthy of some alignment.

How can I put Halrob to L-1 . Because when Halrob was put to L-2 & when he made claim my vote is already in that 5 votes there and
I cannot vote twice. And Explain me why you expected to put some one claimed town power role to L-1 after he claimed power role & there was no counter claim. Now this is very suspecious to me.

That's how you decide to read my post. I said that you preferring others not to put him in hammer range (=execution range) is indeed something which helps in telling your alignment. I didn't say it makes you scummy, or towny for that matter.

Most of these I would call information instead of analysis.

I do not know how to do analysis without gathering information.
OK , then show me some analysis you did on this game & explain me logics behind your analysis?

But given that you yourself brought up this as a solving post:

I am waiting to hear from Halrob & Rogue
or
Charles official stand about their silence
+
Waiting to hear from Max about protocol breach
or
Charles official stand about Max not following the protocol

What did you get out of waiting? What made you decide to wait instead of not waiting?

Again I was waiting for solid information before analysis & come to a conclusion. Becaue I did not know whether Halrob & Rogue were asked by Game MOD to stay silent or not.
Tell me what did you do to slove game during that period ?

I wasn't in the game yet and never really backread tbh, but if it's not solving then idk why you put it forward as you doing something in the game.

As for my own solving:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5364365
I push Kingm on a stupid technicality because the wording of this pings me the hell of. Either he has been eagerly following and has an idea about the game, or he hasn't. Re-reading implies that after receiving his rolecard he now has a new pov. And to some extent that's true, as he now knows DDS' role. But the way it is presented reads more like "now that I know I'm scum, I need to re-read what everyone said to see what I can push"

I think you can call my whole pushing you as solving. I'm trying to figure out your alignment.

While the premise of this post is outdated: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5364293
I call out Sonic for unvoting someone for what I thought was poor arguments, not realising he had already voted someone else. The thought being that I didn't understand why he would unvote you all of a sudden when the priors of his vote on you hadn't changed.

In general, you can see me pushing some buttons and back off/push more depending on responses.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p5364058
I ask you to explain your vote, and this post ultimately leads to me voting you. I am asking questions, and doing things with the answers I get. You vote Sonic for going to Kreta. I vote you because the reasoning has no meat.

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5363882
This whole interaction with Sonic you can try to analyse too. It's consistent in that I was once again wondering from what place a vote came from (feeling like just following me), except this time I accepted the explanation as probably town.
---------------
Yes, I make general posts about mafia theory too. No, I do not count those as solving. What I like to see is people taking stances on people whether right or wrong, and figure out of there's some internal logic that lead to that stance. Whether some logic is lacking. Whether that implies they should be doing something else.

For example: Sonic/Ragian are (to the best of my memory) currently not townreading each other. I am townreading Ragian, and to a certain extent townreading Sonic. Based on this, do you expect me to address them both and see if I can help them find each other as town? I'm not doing that because I am not confident enough in my townreads, and because some of the points they have mentioned make sense.

I'm also reluctantly townreading hjelp just based on energy and vibes, and townreading Loose. I am forced to townread halrob, and think his claim is true.

I am not townreading you so when a light townread of mine, Sonic, backs off, I do question it. Even if I missed the part in between where Sonic voted DDS.

Now, can you do the same for your reads on some players?

[Extreme Ways]

As for Loose: he was clearly doing something with the 5th vote on Halrob thing after I said that maybe one of the pushers was a mafia partner. I think this is not a natural thought for scum!Loose to come up with, even more so after Halrob is a cop claim. That's what I mean with the "I dont quite understand what exactly youre doing, but youre doing something and idk how you would come up with it" or whatever I said.

[chanakam2020]

@Extreme Ways

Now this is becoming interesting and worthy analyze

Your hesitancy on bringing Halrob to L-1 is indeed a post worthy of some alignment.

How can I put Halrob to L-1 . Because when Halrob was put to L-2 & when he made claim my vote is already in that 5 votes there and
I cannot vote twice. And Explain me why you expected to put some one claimed town power role to L-1 after he claimed power role & there was no counter claim. Now this is very suspecious to me.

That's how you decide to read my post. I said that you preferring others not to put him in hammer range (=execution range) is indeed something which helps in telling your alignment. I didn't say it makes you scummy, or towny for that matter.

Your hesitancy on bringing Halrob to L-1 is indeed a post worthy of some alignment.

You did not answer my most important question here.
Why Did you wanted to keep my vote to Halrob without Unvoting him and put Halrob in L-1 even after he claimed that he is town and holding a power role for town.
He made his claim when he was in L-2.

This is the vote count when Halrob is in L-2 .

Vote Count:

Halrob (5) - Loose, Sonic, Darin, Chanakam, Max
Loose (1) - hjelp
Darin (1) - Kong
hjelp (1) - Devon

13 Alive - 7 Needed for a Lynch

You have not voted at that point. Still you was expecting someone else to put Halrob to L-1
And you are not casting that 6th Vote putting Halrob to L-1.
So why you wanted to some one else put him to L-1 instead doing it by yourself even ahfte he claim powr role at L-2?
You waited If some one put him to L-1 then To cast 7th Vote and nail the coffin ?
Or
if players did not put Halrob to L-1 then stay away from voting him and act innocient ?
Explain.