Conquer Club

iancanton wrote:the roads are now much better, but the northwest corner still needs to be done in the same fashion. can u show the neutral 5s on aroer, hashmonah and others to make the initial situation easier to visualise?

ian.

Forgot about those roads! Will do on everything! Should be a new update sometime tomorrow!!

Okay so now that RL has calmed down for the moment here is Version 3.1 with the suggestions ian wanted.

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img695/6913/exodusv31.png[/bigimg]

Looking better and better

For the Pillars of Fire and Cloud, I just noticed the 'bombards pyramids' part in the legend... is that new? Snce the Red Sea Crossing was the real doomsday miracle for the Egyptians, maybe that should be the one that bombards the pyramids. Also the crossing was the big obstacle for the Israelites, so maybe that should be the one with the higher killer neutral.

Actually, I like the idea of have the Pillars of Fire and Cloud as low levels anyway, to open up travel in the map more and split it in half less. Like, say, killer neutral 2s. And then make the Red Sea a killer neutral 4? Anyway, just a thought.

MarshalNey wrote:Looking better and better

Thank you!!

For the Pillars of Fire and Cloud, I just noticed the 'bombards pyramids' part in the legend... is that new? Since the Red Sea Crossing was the real doomsday miracle for the Egyptians, maybe that should be the one that bombards the pyramids. Also the crossing was the big obstacle for the Israelites, so maybe that should be the one with the higher killer neutral.

No, they've been there for a while. I think that both pillars should be the ones to bombard the pyramids because just as the (hold on here ...) on a second thought since the pillar of cloud slowed the Egyptians down, should we have it the only one to bombard the pyramids with a higher killer neutral, say 10, or should we keep it at a 5? That would open the map up a little more. Look at it as the pillar of cloud "slowing" down the player(s) from getting those bonuses.

Actually, I like the idea of have the Pillars of Fire and Cloud as low levels anyway, to open up travel in the map more and split it in half less. Like, say, killer neutral 2s. And then make the Red Sea a killer neutral 4? Anyway, just a thought.

Pillar of Fire killer 2's, and see above.

So if there are no new critiques on GP, GR anyone??

I noticed you have transparency in the map image... you know CC doesn't support it, as it converts the maps to JPG?

Gameplay looks fine though...

Idk looks good. I was thinking since the Red Sea crossing was used by the Jews then came crashing down on the Egyptians, that only the orange path should go thru it. Idk how that would go gameplay-wise.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Idk looks good. I was thinking since the Red Sea crossing was used by the Jews then came crashing down on the Egyptians, that only the orange path should go thru it. Idk how that would go gameplay-wise.

Quite poorly. Having only one way to cross the sea would create a terrible, horrible chokepoint between the two sides.

Evil DIMwit wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:Idk looks good. I was thinking since the Red Sea crossing was used by the Jews then came crashing down on the Egyptians, that only the orange path should go thru it. Idk how that would go gameplay-wise.

Quite poorly. Having only one way to cross the sea would create a terrible, horrible chokepoint between the two sides.

Having the crossing reset to neutral would be better.

wisemanpsemc wrote:Having the crossing reset to neutral would be better.

Which it does, to 3 at the beginning of your turn.

Come to think of it, the lower two crossings won't be used very much. They're both one-way from West to East, which means that to use them, you'd have to enter through Succoth (which is already a horrible, horrible chokepoint, and if you didn't start at Rimmon Perez you'll probably have to go through the player there), conquer your way down the pyramids (which could take a while and doesn't offer much of a return compared to the neutrals you have to go through) and then go out through one of the pillars (which you'd hardly want to break the neutrals of, because then people can come in and bombard your hard-earned pyramids and reduce you to a shriveled husk made of negative bonuses). It hardly seems worth it.

Also, it'd be nice if the one-way arrows were a bit more clear. I find them a bit confusing. This might be for Graphics WS but I thought I'd say something.

Evil DIMwit wrote:Come to think of it, the lower two crossings won't be used very much. They're both one-way from West to East, which means that to use them, you'd have to enter through Succoth (which is already a horrible, horrible chokepoint, and if you didn't start at Rimmon Perez you'll probably have to go through the player there), conquer your way down the pyramids (which could take a while and doesn't offer much of a return compared to the neutrals you have to go through) and then go out through one of the pillars (which you'd hardly want to break the neutrals of, because then people can come in and bombard your hard-earned pyramids and reduce you to a shriveled husk made of negative bonuses). It hardly seems worth it.

Okay, good point. How would the lower two crossings work in if I reverted them back to 2 way??

Victor Sullivan wrote:Also, it'd be nice if the one-way arrows were a bit more clear. I find them a bit confusing. This might be for Graphics WS but I thought I'd say something.

Well they are kinda game play as well. So which arrows are you referring to?

isaiah40 wrote:Okay, good point. How would the lower two crossings work in if I reverted them back to 2 way??

A bit better but with the pillars blocking both southern routes with 5 neutrals... I'm not sure. I don't know if Egypt is even worth it. If you were playing this map, would you go for Egypt?

Evil DIMwit wrote:A bit better but with the pillars blocking both southern routes with 5 neutrals... I'm not sure. I don't know if Egypt is even worth it. If you were playing this map, would you go for Egypt?

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. I could lower the neutrals down to 3 and either add in a 3rd crossing between Hawara/Kahun and Serabit el-Khadim. or add back in the any 2 cities/pyramids or combination of both for +1 as an extra enticement. This would open the left side a lot more and would possibly entice players to go for it.

Would that work?

Good heavens, sorry for the lull in posting.

isaiah40 wrote:Okay, now we are getting somewhere. I could lower the neutrals down to 3 and either add in a 3rd crossing between Hawara/Kahun and Serabit el-Khadim

I think this would be best.

MarshalNey wrote:Good heavens, sorry for the lull in posting.

isaiah40 wrote:Okay, now we are getting somewhere. I could lower the neutrals down to 3 and either add in a 3rd crossing between Hawara/Kahun and Serabit el-Khadim

I think this would be best.

Okay, I'll get it done here in a few days when my very hectic RL settles down for a couple!

can we make snakes start with 5 neutrals, so that jotbathah and zalmonah are at least 10 neutrals apart like all of the other starting points?

a bigger bonus for israel's journey, such as +3 for every 5, seems appropriate because of all the neutrals compared with, for example, the pyramids.

ian.

iancanton wrote:can we make snakes start with 5 neutrals, so that jotbathah and zalmonah are at least 10 neutrals apart like all of the other starting points?

a bigger bonus for israel's journey, such as +3 for every 5, seems appropriate because of all the neutrals compared with, for example, the pyramids.

ian.

Thanks ian. These I can do. RL has me very busy lately, so it might take a while to get an update, so please be patient

Okay here we go Version 3.2 coming your way with changes recommended by ian, evil and marshall!

I also removed the one way attacks in Egypt which should open that side a whole lot more.

[bigimg]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1610/exodusv32.png[/bigimg]

I feel like the pillars should just be an auto-decay instead of a killer neutral since there's an alternate way to get to the pyramids without using the pillars, if that makes sense.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote:I feel like the pillars should just be an auto-decay instead of a killer neutral since there's an alternate way to get to the pyramids without using the pillars, if that makes sense.

-Sully

Yes it does. I think I'll hold off on making that change until I get more feedback on it.

On another note, I am seriously thinking of making Moses able to one way attack all plagues instead of just bombarding them. Any thoughts or ideas on this? I think (without going back through all the posts), marshall might have mentioned this. It would probably make the game play a little more challenging?

isaiah40 wrote:Yes it does. I think I'll hold off on making that change until I get more feedback on it.

On another note, I am seriously thinking of making Moses able to one way attack all plagues instead of just bombarding them. Any thoughts or ideas on this?

The auto-decay for the pillars and a killer neutral for the Red Sea gives each more distinctive relevance to the story (Pillars only lasted a little while; the Red Sea was a quick bam), while keeping the legend the same. I like it.

As for Moses, I did suggest at first 1-way attack. It might make Moses too powerful I think.

Is there some way maybe to give each 'character' in that trio and ability? Pharaoh would make sense to be able to 1-way attack any pyramid; perhaps Aaron could 1-way attack any plague? (Aaron can start the plagues, Moses ends them, a little artistic license here I know)

If you do this, increase Pharoah's/Aaron's neutral value to 4 perhaps.
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I'm also thinking that some (or most) of the neutral values should go down. Particularly on the small settlements like Tarah, which are way too high at 5. Maybe 2, perhaps even 1. Think about places where you could put 2s and 1s, even on the Pyramids, to let the game flow and players get somewhere even in the early rounds. Then put up a few choice higher neutrals- like 4s or 5s- to act as 'obstacles'.

If Aaron doesn't do anything special, he should also be a 2 neutral I think.

Looking good, keep it up

Marshal Ney

MarshalNey wrote:

isaiah40 wrote:Yes it does. I think I'll hold off on making that change until I get more feedback on it.

On another note, I am seriously thinking of making Moses able to one way attack all plagues instead of just bombarding them. Any thoughts or ideas on this?

The auto-decay for the pillars and a killer neutral for the Red Sea gives each more distinctive relevance to the story (Pillars only lasted a little while; the Red Sea was a quick bam), while keeping the legend the same. I like it.

As for Moses, I did suggest at first 1-way attack. It might make Moses too powerful I think.

The auto-decay will be done next update. As for Moses being too powerful, maybe but we could find out during beta testing right??

Is there some way maybe to give each 'character' in that trio and ability? Pharaoh would make sense to be able to 1-way attack any pyramid;

Now this idea I like!!

... perhaps Aaron could 1-way attack any plague? (Aaron can start the plagues, Moses ends them, a little artistic license here I know)

If you do this, increase Pharoah's/Aaron's neutral value to 4 perhaps.

I think I will leave Aaron as he is and then do the increase for Pharaoh to the neutral 4.

I'm also thinking that some (or most) of the neutral values should go down. Particularly on the small settlements like Tarah, which are way too high at 5. Maybe 2, perhaps even 1. Think about places where you could put 2s and 1s, even on the Pyramids, to let the game flow and players get somewhere even in the early rounds. Then put up a few choice higher neutrals- like 4s or 5s- to act as 'obstacles'.

Iancanton suggested that they should be at least a 4 or 5 to help any early elimination. Now i can reduce some of them to 2's. AS for the choice higher neutrals, I will use them as 'obstacles' to slow people down in getting bonuses.

If Aaron doesn't do anything special, he should also be a 2 neutral I think.

Looking good, keep it up

Marshal Ney

This will also be changed in my next update, and thank you!