Poppy Burning

[GreecePwns]

The common rumour floating around about the suicide bomber dudes is the promise of "A trip to paradise with the prize of one virgin per infedel they take with them."

How does that fit in with, "all major religion believe that killing someone will send you to hell." and why doesn't the sign clearify. "Soldiers that killed" as opposed to just "British" ones.

A promise from who exactly? Not Allah.

Extremists act on their beliefs more often than not. For example, Muslim terrorists (or any religious violence group, for that matter) act on their extreme belief that killing people will get them into paradise.

These protesters are extreme in the way they expressed their beliefs, not in their beliefs. The signs said "British soldiers" because they were in Britain of course, a by product of their attention-whorish way of expression. Had they been in America or any other nation that has historically had a military presence there they would have said the same thing.

[soldierboy]

So, for those of you that don't know. Today a bunch of Muslims (now this isn't bigotry, it's simply the fact) burnt a giant poppy in the middle of london at 11am, coinciding with the 2 minutes silence for remembrance day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html

Now, I am of the belief that if they don't like what our army has done, then they can f*ck right off out of our country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328703/Remembrance-Day-Poppy-burning-Muslim-protesters-mar-Armistice-Day.html

That contains some of the disgusting slogans that these disrespectful little tossers were carrying today

At the end of the day, the people they disrespected died so that they are able to live in our country, work in our country and died for their freedom to express their own religion.

So if they want to do this, then the Koran burning is obviously allowed.

Bunch of fucking mugs!

ENGLISH AND PROUD!
11/11 - ALWAYS REMEMBERED

I feel the same way buddy!

[nagerous]

A group of 50 muslims is not indicative of the wider populace, the average quiet peaceful muslim family who will now feel terrorised by the hate and vitriol they will now see posted on newspapers like the daily mail. There are radicals in all fields of life and now unfortunately due to actions of a small minority there are going to be numerous rammifications.

surely then Nag it is time for ALL the peaceful muslim family to stand up and be counted. they either want to be part of the British culture(I'm not saying denounce all links to Pakistan) or they don't. why don't they have a rally supporting the British troops. I won't hold my breath, because then the extremists will attack them.

Seriously, the idea of counting peaceful muslim families is so out there I am shocked that you even mentioned it. Throwing out Godwin's rule out there, it has connotations to Hitler making Jewish families wear the Star of David so that they would be singled out. The concept of being British is changing as the nation is evolving into a more multi-cultural country, especially in the inner cities. This of course is going to lend itself to some extremists and a few madmen but this is just the way of life. I am just saying that making generalisations about all muslims as some have is quite wrong. The other thing I don't like about this 'counting' idea is it reminds me greatly of that awkward scene in This is England where Combo asks Milky, just tell me one thing 'do you consider yourself to be British or Jamacian.' That film is an excellent portrayal of the brainwashing that can take place for us to start hating our fellow man. However, this film was also set in the 80s and I'd like to think that society has matured and we are becoming more acceptable/tolerant of others since those times.

[PLAYER57832]

It's hard not to call bullshit.

Poppies may mean something different to those burning them, but they CHOSE November 11th to do it on for the sensationalism.

Well f*ck them for their insensitivity. This kind of backlash, ignorant or otherwise was expected and welcomed by those planning it.
I can't go and burn a Koran in the middle of Masjid al-Harām in Makkah on Laylat al-Qadr then fall back on that I'm protesting all organized religion. Then berate those who protest my actions that they should be more open minded and tolerant when I choose to settle in their country.

JRockets

I agree. On the other hand, how many Brits are taught the role of Poppies and Opium in their history? (I honestly do not know). If this is neglected, much like Native American oppression was long neglected (still is, in some cases) in US schools, then perhaps there is something that needs to be addressed, though absolutely NOT in this particular way.

And, yes, it makes a big difference that these protests are happening in Britain, done by people welcomed into the country, given various advantages. Protests in the former colonies might be more understandable.

My point above wasn't to say this was OK (I believe I said I did not think it was), but that no one seemed to even know why this protest happened. If you don't know why, you cannot combat it effectively.

[Fircoal]

I really don't get why there is such an extreme response to this. I mean what's wrong with them protesting in a peaceful way. Are you all really so insensitive to believe that your side is the only side and that if people don't adhere to what you say that they're "evil", "Scum" and other such? I mean I personally don't honor the veterans because I don't really see a point to it. I don't care about patriotism, and I personally don't think that the act of killing someone is a good thing. I'm not going to honor people who I consider amoral. I mean in a way I'm glad that people do it so that there isn't a draft or anything stupid like that, but it'd be so much better if we could do away with all this nonsense.

[DAZMCFC]

A group of 50 muslims is not indicative of the wider populace, the average quiet peaceful muslim family who will now feel terrorised by the hate and vitriol they will now see posted on newspapers like the daily mail. There are radicals in all fields of life and now unfortunately due to actions of a small minority there are going to be numerous rammifications.

surely then Nag it is time for ALL the peaceful muslim family to stand up and be counted. they either want to be part of the British culture(I'm not saying denounce all links to Pakistan) or they don't. why don't they have a rally supporting the British troops. I won't hold my breath, because then the extremists will attack them.

Nag you missed my point mate. I know there are thousands of muslim families that are hard working and get shit loads of abuse from scroats up and down the country. surely they should realise grassing up these extremists would give them a more peaceful life in this country where they choose to live and make a living in. people would see them in a different light. it's the same as if everyone on a working class council estate told the police about local drug dealers to clean up said estates, but that doesn't happen too often surprisingly.

Seriously, the idea of counting peaceful muslim families is so out there I am shocked that you even mentioned it. Throwing out Godwin's rule out there, it has connotations to Hitler making Jewish families wear the Star of David so that they would be singled out. The concept of being British is changing as the nation is evolving into a more multi-cultural country, especially in the inner cities. This of course is going to lend itself to some extremists and a few madmen but this is just the way of life. I am just saying that making generalisations about all muslims as some have is quite wrong. The other thing I don't like about this 'counting' idea is it reminds me greatly of that awkward scene in This is England where Combo asks Milky, just tell me one thing 'do you consider yourself to be British or Jamacian.' That film is an excellent portrayal of the brainwashing that can take place for us to start hating our fellow man. However, this film was also set in the 80s and I'd like to think that society has matured and we are becoming more acceptable/tolerant of others since those times.

[2dimes]

Just want to clarify, this is not about the remembrance. The burning was not against soldiers.

Oh.

[AlgyTaylor]

A group of 50 muslims is not indicative of the wider populace, the average quiet peaceful muslim family who will now feel terrorised by the hate and vitriol they will now see posted on newspapers like the daily mail. There are radicals in all fields of life and now unfortunately due to actions of a small minority there are going to be numerous rammifications.

Totally. And it's not 50, it's 35. They're an insignificant minority and I wish the bloody press would just ignore them. They're (Telegraph, Daily Mail) just encouraging this kind of pathetic attention-seeking behaviour.

[2dimes]

Do you think there is any way this sort of behaviour could be discouraged?

[PLAYER57832]

Education, tolerance.
Most people just want to be heard. If they feel they are heard, they are less likely to move onto other measures.

[2dimes]

Tolerance of complete and utter disrespect for the country you're in, tolerance of burning british soldiers in hell? Or just tolerance by pretending burning poppies in the streets on november 11 is about some other thing?

[jefjef]

Do you think there is any way this sort of behaviour could be discouraged?

Yes. Some education should suffice...

[2dimes]

Looks like the pilot just released a couple of "tolerance 856" missiles there too.

[billy07]

the liberals can dumb down this and say it's only a few muslims. the truth is, these occurances are happening more and more often by just a few muslims.

there's alot of ex-forces here in portsmouth and this didn't go down to well. there was a giant poppy painted onto portsmouths biggest mosque along with a protest.

[PLAYER57832]

the liberals can dumb down this and say it's only a few muslims. the truth is, these occurances are happening more and more often by just a few muslims.

Hmm, yes, and it seems the number of people who thing Muslim=terrorist is growing as well.

Maybe this is even an example?:

there's alot of ex-forces here in portsmouth and this didn't go down to well. there was a giant poppy painted onto portsmouths biggest mosque along with a protest.

Why is it that only one side is allowed to protest "legitimately?". Again, not saying I agree with those guys at all, but the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right"...

Then again, maybe it should change to "two wrongs really do make a right wing".

[2dimes]

Just want to clarify, this is not about the remembrance. The burning was not against soldiers.

Oh.

[PLAYER57832]

Oh.

Already said I goofed, in part. I also said from the start that this particular protest was wrong. There is a broader protest that does object to using poppies specifically as a symbol. There is also a contingent in the occupied areas particularly, that sees celibration of wars in their country was improper. (gee can't imagine why they might feel that way )

So, how about getting on to the real debate, instead of just looking for holes in anything I say?

[2dimes]

What is the debate? If these morons hate a country they reside in that much I feel said country should assist them in departure. Unfourtunately no one seems to be running countries properly at this time.

They should clearly be deported as they don't represent Islam or the UK. All in favour?

[PLAYER57832]

What is the debate? If these morons hate a country they reside in that much I feel said country should assist them in departure. Unfourtunately no one seems to be running countries properly at this time.

They should clearly be deported as they don't represent Islam or the UK. All in favour?

Seems there is this underlying principal of allowing people to voice their opinions.. even when that opinion is offensive.

We have that in the US. Its part of what makes us strong. Only those without ground to stand upon need fear dissent. The people most harmed by these protestors are folks who actually support their cause (but who express it in a more reasonable manner). Them, and if too many keep latching onto this "a few Muslim protestors mean all Muslims are bad" type rhetoric that seems to be as prevalent in the UK as here in the US, then we ALL are harmed.

[2dimes]

Unlike you I don't care what their religious beliefs are or if they are offensive.

I just think eleven truck loads of british soldiers should have been brought by when this was going on.

[PLAYER57832]

Unlike you I don't care what their religious beliefs are or if they are offensive.

I just think eleven truck loads of british soldiers should have been brought by when this was going on.

I see. And who gets to decide what is offensive? Exactly what speech is limited? Religious beliefs ARE irrelevant, yes. However a lot of the criticism voiced here was about "those Muslims". Why is this more offensive and less to be allowed than, say, some of the protests by PETA, etc?

[2dimes]

I don't find it offensive in particular. Regarding your perceived notion that I'm trying to styfle their freedoms of speech, on the contrary, I much rather they come out and say these things so that the UK government is aware that they don't want to be there.

[PLAYER57832]

I don't find it offensive in particular. Regarding your perceived notion that I'm trying to styfle their freedoms of speech, on the contrary, I much rather they come out and say these things so that the UK government is aware that they don't want to be there.

I think you missed a big part of the point.

The point is that not liking things one government does is not equivalent to "not wanting to be there". And, while some posts here were along the lines of "I really don't like this" (very legitimate), some was also along the lines of "just goes to show what those Muslims are like...", which is not.

In any case, this is a UK matter. I only stepped in because so many, initially, seemed unaware of why the poppies in particular were a target.

[Johnny Rockets]

I really don't get why there is such an extreme response to this. I mean what's wrong with them protesting in a peaceful way. Are you all really so insensitive to believe that your side is the only side and that if people don't adhere to what you say that they're "evil", "Scum" and other such? I mean I personally don't honor the veterans because I don't really see a point to it. I don't care about patriotism, and I personally don't think that the act of killing someone is a good thing. I'm not going to honor people who I consider amoral. I mean in a way I'm glad that people do it so that there isn't a draft or anything stupid like that, but it'd be so much better if we could do away with all this nonsense.

I agree that it would be better if we could do away with ll this nonsense.
But there will always be people that choose to oppress others. Take WWII as a prime example.
If you, your race, your family, or your country was the target of that kind of oppression, you would be pretty damn grateful that there were those willing to protect your ass with their lives to ensure your safety and those you love.

Perhaps then you would be able to conceive how inappropriate and insensitive that this group of people would stage this protest on the day where we should be thanking those who gave their lives to ensure the well being of ours.

Johnny Rockets

[PLAYER57832]

[Perhaps then you would be able to conceive how inappropriate and insensitive that this group of people would stage this protest on the day where we should be thanking those who gave their lives to ensure the well being of ours.

Johnny Rockets

For the record, my family was. And my family fought in that war in many ways overtly and covertly.

Even so, I also recognize that the war in Europe and Japan were very different from the wars waged in Africa, the mideast and such. So, people who are from that area have a very, very different perception.

I don't agree with their protest, the day they chose or any other part of it. However, as I said earlier, there is a big difference between saying "i don't like this, don't consider this protest appropriate" and saying "ship em all back home... how dare they, etc." They dare because in their minds, those same soldiers did not create the freedom we celebrate. and.. they are at least partially correct.

That said, I think all such issues should be kept seperate from the soldiers themselves.