I had a dream.... about beta (MapMaker Killer series: MMK)

[ange noir]

hé je comprends pas bien le tous mais si le tournoi se fait je veux y etre

[dragon dor]

interresting idea like play vs the fondator map it s will be really fun and i see no lot tourney idea change except name and i can t get more medail so if something special here i want play in

[DJENRE]

There are other options available to include the mapmakers in the tournament, I was just specifically addressing the situation as originally presented.


I can't move the thread back without you getting a Cartographer to say it's fine (and to tell me which forum to put it in).

Ok nightstrike, thank you.
If any cartographer move it, it's ok.
If not, I'll send them Pm so they could follow how things are going...

I'm also going to post a proper example of what a MMK tournament could be on Middle ages.
And also a kind of rules guide which need to be approved.

Maybe I'm dreaming but is there any chance those MMK become [OFFICIAL]?

[DJENRE]

This is a first drop of MMK main rules.
Night Strike : Can u tell me if it's correct and if there is anything to add.
Is there any chance to see that MMK becoming [OFFICIAL] as it should be a big help for cartographers to see players feeling about beta maps. I would like to do things properly.
Cartographers : Could you also have a look and also tell me, regarding the feedback from players, if we link them to the thread directly or if u prefer to create another appropriate thread to avoid any mess in the map foundry.

Everybody can tell if there is any more rules or indication to make.
Thank you in advance

[spoiler=MapMaker Killer series main rules] MapMaker Killer series have been created to give players the opportunity to try new beat map and fight the MapMaker on his own map.
As those map are still building, players can give a feedback on maps through the Map Foundry forum. A link to the appropriate thread will be set for each tournament.

#1 are about the MM (MapMakers)
# 1-01
MM are allowed to play directly in the finale. But they can't win no tournament medals as It would be unfair for other players.
# 1-02
MM choose the format and settings for the finale. They also tell number of players they want in finale.
# 1-03
MM can also give the whole tournament format and number of players. If not, the organizer will set the tournament to match with MM criteria for finale.

Note : As we will be playing beta maps, no fog is highly recommended and No spoils or Nuclear.

#2 are for players who enter the MMK series.
# 2-01
Each players who enter MMK series agree to give a quick feedback on the appropriate thread after they played on Map. Tell what you think about the map or just say it's fine like that.
# 2-02
Each player will play a minimum of 2 games in the 1st round. That gives players the opportunity to adress an appropriate feedback.
# 2-03
As it will be hard to qualify the finale and fight the MM, any finalist will be allowed to play 3 games minimum VS the MM.[/spoiler]

[DJENRE]

This is a example of what thread could be.

Let me know if there is any change to make.
This has been done with fictives settings.
It's only to see how tournaments will be presented. See links to the thread and if cartographers are well deserved by this thread.

[spoiler=PREVIEW MMK series]MMK I : Middle ages - Be the "MapMaker Killer" [1/32]

(MapMaker Killer series main rules) there will be a link to the main rules here.

MapMaker is : [player]Thenobodies80[/player]

Post your feedback here




1st ROUND
As it's a beta map and most of the players do not know it yet, each player will have 3 chances to qualify to next round.

1st chance
81 players
3 players assassin games
27 killers go to next round
54 players have a second chance

2nd chance
54 players
3 players assassin games
18 killers go to next round
36 players have a third chance

3rd chance
36 players
4 players assassin games
9 killers go to next round
25 players are eliminated

1/8 FINALE
54 players
3 players assassin games
18 killers go to next step

1/4 FINALE
18 players
3 players assassin games
6 killers go to next round

1/2 FINALE
6 players
3 players assassin games
2 killers go to next step

FINALE Mapmaker [player]Thenobodies80[/player] enter the tournament
3 player assassin games
If any of those two players can win 3 games, he will be the only Official MapMakerKiller on Middle Ages.
If [player]Thenobodies80[/player] win only two games. Tournament is over and he remains the Master of his map.
Another tournament will be set later to found who can be the MapMaker Killer on Middle Ages.[/spoiler]

[DJENRE]

Maybe we could add a minimum of players for any tourney to be sure we have a maximum of feedback and also because those tourney must be quiet hard to win

[SirSebstar]

I support Djenre, I think he has enough to get a tournament started. medals will continue to be a problem for the tournament winners if they are the map mapers, but other then that. go for it

[DJENRE]

Thank you for your support SirSebstar

NightStrike : about a new special medal, If it's not possible, I'll ask for a general achiev medal. But if CC set a new medal only for MapMakerKillers, I'll be able to organize those tourney not only for beta map, but for any map if any cartogrphar ask for it...

[Night Strike]

Is there any chance to see that MMK becoming [OFFICIAL] as it should be a big help for cartographers to see players feeling about beta maps. I would like to do things properly.

No.

Thank you for your support SirSebstar

NightStrike : about a new special medal, If it's not possible, I'll ask for a general achiev medal. But if CC set a new medal only for MapMakerKillers, I'll be able to organize those tourney not only for beta map, but for any map if any cartogrphar ask for it...

Lack's not going to make a special medal just for this tournament.

[DJENRE]

Night Strike,

Thank you for answering that so quick.

I understand Lackattack is not going to make a medal only for one tournament but MMK SERIES are going to be set for beta first (already 6 tournaments, and more with upcoming beta) and also for non beta if any cartographer ask to do a MMK on his map. There are about 160 + maps on the list so it could be a lot of tournaments.
Then the medal wouldn't be only for one tournament.

I just thought it could be nice to see a new CHALLENGE on CONQUER CLUB : defeat a mapmaker. And earn a new medal.

But the MMK series will show up anyway, with or without an [OFFICIAL] and a NEW medal.

UPDATE see next post, cartographer could make a special sig maybe?

DJENRE

[MarshalNey]

DJ, I looked through your sample rules and an example and I think that you've mostly got a good idea... I like that you put in the rules a part about the players making a comment on the map itself, that goes with the spirit of Beta testing- perhaps only for the winners, in order to advance they give some feedback? Dunno, forced feedback isn't great, but I think often a player just doesn't know- or take the time perhaps- to comment on a map to the mapmaker, even though they have opinions that they'd like to share.

Anyway, there is at least one big problem, and that's the winner of the finale. I don't like that there can be 'no winner', and 'another tournament played'... it seems like a bait-and-switch that could leave players angry. If a tourney is created, at the end I think at least one of the players who entered at the beginning should get a medal.

If you have to use a scoring system (and I think you will), so be it, but make sure that a winner is determined somehow. I would suggest scoring the Finale according to who goes out first, second, etc., then add up the points earned to determine a winner. If they kill a mapmaker, have a funny little sig (maybe the mapmaker could make one?) that the player can use- it's a neat gimmick that doesn't require making a whole new medal for a special kind of tourney.

Anyway, hope this helps.

-- Marshal Ney

[DJENRE]

DJ, I looked through your sample rules and an example and I think that you've mostly got a good idea... I like that you put in the rules a part about the players making a comment on the map itself, that goes with the spirit of Beta testing- perhaps only for the winners, in order to advance they give some feedback? Dunno, forced feedback isn't great, but I think often a player just doesn't know- or take the time perhaps- to comment on a map to the mapmaker, even though they have opinions that they'd like to share.

The feedback can be just "optionnal", (but many players won't take the time) or "Higly recommended" but you're right about forced feedback. But it the meantime I want the MMK to help the cartographer community as most of you were happy to see those tournaments become true.

Anyway, there is at least one big problem, and that's the winner of the finale. I don't like that there can be 'no winner', and 'another tournament played'... it seems like a bait-and-switch that could leave players angry. If a tourney is created, at the end I think at least one of the players who entered at the beginning should get a medal.

What I have in mind was to make something official where you have the possibility to fight a mapmaker in a finale and earn a medal for it (a new medal, created only for those series, but it's not going to be created, see NightStrike post). Those tournament would be really hard to win and there is a possibility nobody win on the first try. But if a player win that tourney, He become the MapMaker Killer on that map ONCE AND FOR ALL... That could become a nice challenge for players.
And this has been discussed on first posts... The Map Maker can win the tourney, but he can't win a medal for that if he just enters the finale. So when I say "nobody wins", I should say "the MM wins and another tourney will be created to have a second chance to defeat the MM".

If you have to use a scoring system (and I think you will), so be it, but make sure that a winner is determined somehow. I would suggest scoring the Finale according to who goes out first, second, etc., then add up the points earned to determine a winner. If they kill a mapmaker, have a funny little sig (maybe the mapmaker could make one?) that the player can use- it's a neat gimmick that doesn't require making a whole new medal for a special kind of tourney.

Yes, that's a really good idea!!! Instead the medal, we could have this kind of sig. Only for those who defeat a MM on his own Map into MMK series. That could be a nice alternative.
just remember that if we set something special in those series, we will have more players, then more feedback for the cartographer community.

Can you see if it's possible to make something with the cartographer community?

Thank you for your time
and YES, it helps!!!
DJENRE

[DJENRE]

I also added rules and tournament preview to the first page so people can see a resume of everything.

[DJENRE]

I saw ghost of my thread is not anymore in the cartographer forum so I hope cartographers will keep an eye on it.

[benga]

Do not limit it to beta maps only.

What about?
ROUND 1 - map maker plays round robin vs all,
if he wins at the rate of 50% he goes to finals
where he meets the winner of single elimination bracket?

[dolomite13]

Sorry I was on my honeymoon in Cancun and just returned. I am totally in for this =)

Now I need to get Conquer 500 into beta.

=D=

p.s. I would also be up for doing this with Monsters!

[DJENRE]

Sorry I was on my honeymoon in Cancun and just returned. I am totally in for this =)

Now I need to get Conquer 500 into beta.

=D=

p.s. I would also be up for doing this with Monsters!

Cool, i hope your honey moon was nice.
I'm happy you agree with my idea.

I'll let you know how it is going.

DJENRE

[DJENRE]

I'm waiting for thenobodies80 answer to go farer(1st toourney)
also from sirsebstar (you know why...lol)
and from cartographers (for the sign)

[DJENRE]

thenobodies80 is ready to go in the first MMK
I gonna send a pm to sirsebstar.

[Dukasaur]

I think it's an excellent idea.

[Dukasaur]

The problem here is, most people play in tournaments for the winner's medal. What happens if the mapmaker wins, he/she gets a medal for winning one game? The other person in the finals comes away with nothing after all their hard work getting there? I think the only way you could do this is if the mapmaker was in the tourney from the very beginning and had to play/win just as many games as anyone else to win it. That's possible now, if said mapmaker is interested.

There would be no guarantee that the mapmaker would make it through the preliminary rounds, and that would defeat the whole purpose. The point is to face the mapmaker in the grand finale, and that requires giving him a free pass to get there, which in turn disqualifies him from a medal.

After all, any mapmaker can sign up for any tournament at any time and he has a chance to win a medal the regular way. This would be something special, something extra.

[DJENRE]

Ty for ur post. I send u a pm

[DJENRE]

Update with new map in final forge

And a quick sign done! coul be something like this one : but I'm sure cartographer can do much better.

[DJENRE]

It's a real nice idea, If some day my map arrived at beta, I will participate for sure

[DJENRE]

WHat do you think about that one?