Conquer Club

I see. WWII was simply about Jews and how many died and questioning the issue is racist.

Got ya.

_sabotage_ wrote:I see. WWII was simply about Jews and how many died and questioning the issue is racist.

Got ya.

And denying its existence is a crime. Preaching that holocaust never happened is not allowed and is not covered by freedom of speech.

_sabotage_ wrote:
I just don't respect AIPAC and the hypocrisy that is involved in championing Jews over other genocides that get ignored.

I agree that other genocides are important, but it really wasn't the Jews, per se that brought this one to our culture so strongly.

In most other cases, either the people being slaughtered or the people doing the slaughtering were "others" -- "primitive peoples", "people who worshipped other, inherently strange gods", etc. They were people we could set ourselves apart from.

A lot of other events were tragedeies, but "nothing to do with us", really.... so for most of the other examples. The holocaust, to contrast, was perpetrated by Germans, Europeans, people with whom most Americans identify, even have in their own families. Not just any Germans, even, but highly technological Germans, highly educated and "civilized" Germans. They were, plain and simply very much "like us". To think that "we"

Lil_SlimShady wrote:

_sabotage_ wrote:I see. WWII was simply about Jews and how many died and questioning the issue is racist.

Got ya.

And denying its existence is a crime. Preaching that holocaust never happened is not allowed and is not covered by freedom of speech.

Holocaust denial isn't a crime in the U.S. (we don't police thought and its expression). Is it so in Canada?

Yeah, it is. There was a case in Northern Canada of a high school teacher who openly denied that ever happened Holocaust in front of his students. He was accused of spreading hateful propaganda and sentenced to prison.

Lil_SlimShady wrote:Yeah, it is. There was a case in Northern Canada of a high school teacher who openly denied that ever happened Holocaust in front of his students. He was accused of spreading hateful propaganda and sentenced to prison.

Damn. That's like jailing people for being stupid.... wait a minute... that's not a terrible idea.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

_sabotage_ wrote:
I just don't respect AIPAC and the hypocrisy that is involved in championing Jews over other genocides that get ignored.

I agree that other genocides are important, but it really wasn't the Jews, per se that brought this one to our culture so strongly.

In most other cases, either the people being slaughtered or the people doing the slaughtering were "others" -- "primitive peoples", "people who worshipped other, inherently strange gods", etc. They were people we could set ourselves apart from.

A lot of other events were tragedeies, but "nothing to do with us", really.... so for most of the other examples. The holocaust, to contrast, was perpetrated by Germans, Europeans, people with whom most Americans identify, even have in their own families. Not just any Germans, even, but highly technological Germans, highly educated and "civilized" Germans. They were, plain and simply very much "like us". To think that "we"

The Germans are civilized and they slaughtered Jews. Is that what the fuss is about? We didn't seem to care when it was Christians slaughtering Christians or Muslims. Or Jews massacring Muslims. But we do care about Muslims killing Christians and Jews and Christians killing Jews.

Do we care if Jews kill Jews?

I wouldn''t. Internal conflict is none of anybody's business. Which is a concept that America doesn't seem to comprehend.

The only reason we give a shit about the Jews is because they could afford the propaganda. Otherwise, they'd just be a group of assholes like the rest of us.

AndyDufresne wrote:

Lil_SlimShady wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:

premio53 wrote:Although out numbered a 100 to 1 there is no power on earth that will destroy modern day Israel and woe be to anyone who tries.

Actually, I think one power might be able to. I think they could probably destroy themselves.


--Andy

The tendency of all great nations is to over-reach. All one has to do is look at human history. Napoleon, Hitler, Rome, Greece, Alexander the Great, Chingiz-Khan (sp?). Eventually the Jews will follow.

Israel may follow. But not all Jews, since not all Jews live in Israel or lead nation states.

--Andy

Don't believe the hype. Everyone in Israel is a Jew; otherwise, the numbers don't make sense.

Ok so I watched the whole 20 odd minutes of the guy pointing out the 6,000,000,000 Jews references in the newspapers along with the dates and the fact that all of this was written before Hitler had even entered the government. So to be clear, this is implying a number of things:

-The 6,000,000,000 number just sounded good so the papers kept using that number for 20 years
-The media was proposing a Jewish Holocaust long before WWII
-The number of people killed in the Holocaust of 1933-1945 (6,000,000,000) is coincidentally the same as the number proposed were at risk for 20 years before.

Is this what I was supposed to get out of the video?

_sabotage_ wrote:Yes, that is true for many of the stans and subcontinent through the middle east as well.

27 million Russians died in WWII, but I don't see many of their descendants producing movies in Hollywood. I know many Jews and individually they are as nice or as big of assholes as would be found any other group of people.

I just don't respect AIPAC and the hypocrisy that is involved in championing Jews over other genocides that get ignored.

I dunno. [insert something about history, immigration laws of Soviet Union, and centuries-old public policies restricting Jews to financing].

That might explain it. If not, CONSPIRACY!!!

Army of GOD wrote:What are Jews?

Acts 13:26 - Men [and] brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

In Genesis 14:13, the name "Hebrew" was applied to Abram. Consequently, the name came to refer to the physical descendants of Abraham. It was used to distinguish them as a class of people distinct from the foreigners around them. It means that Abram was a descendant of Eber in the line of shem. "Hebrew" is the ethnic appellation.

Actually, it did not mean physical descent of Abraham. Note that all his servants were circumcised with him, further note that the exodus had a large number of strangers accompanying them.

puppydog85 wrote:Actually, it did not mean physical descent of Abraham. Note that all his servants were circumcised with him, further note that the exodus had a large number of strangers accompanying them.

Race has nothing to do with Darwin or evolution. Daniel Webster long before Darwin came along describes "race" as such:

"The linage of a family, or continued series of descendants from a parent who is called the stock. A race is the series of descendants indefinitely. Thus all mankind are called the race of Adam; the Israelites are of the race of Abraham and Jacob. Thus we speak of a race of kings, the race of Clovis or Charlemagne; a race of nobles, etc." (1828)

The Jews come from the stock of Abraham (Acts 13:26). Only in modern politically correct dictionaries will you find "race" being morphed into "nation." When the census asks what "race" you are, they aren't asking where you are from.

In 2000 M.F. Hammer who was with the National Academy of Sciences confirmed the common ancestry and common geographical origin of world Jewry.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html

"Jewish men from communities which developed in the Near East –- Iran, Iraq, Kurdistan, Yemen -- and European Jews have very similar, almost identical genetic profiles."

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
(M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000)

"A low rate of intermarriage between Diaspora Jews and local gentiles was the key reason for this continuity. Since the Jews first settled in Europe more than 50 generations ago, the intermarriage rate was estimated to be only about 0.5% in each generation."

God has miraculously preserved the descendants of Abraham. He put them back in their land where they became a nation again for the first time again in many centuries on May 14, 1948 and all hell will never drive them out again according to Bible prophecy. If Israel were indeed destroyed or driven into the sea, I would be first to admit the Bible is nothing but a book of lies. It isn't though and anyone who wishes to reject it has that choice, but to their own peril.

Sorry but you really do need to read your Bible a little more. One of my pet peeves with modern evanglicals is their utter ignorance when it come to the Bible and Israel.
FYI, most of what the Bible records about Israel is them getting their butt's kicked because they did not repent and worship him. In fact, that's why he exiled them. But now for some reason God reversed his course with modern day Israel and has decided to favor them despite the fact that they still are as stuck in their ways as ancient Israel.

Maybe God thought that enough exile is enough? You know, as in they had their fair share of suffering and its about time he rewarded them. So he killed 6000000 of them and gave them their land back. God is a fickle one.

(Its a joke, dont start a religious debate, the topic here is jews)

puppydog85 wrote:all his servants were circumcised with him

Tried to do that to my gardener, pool cleaner and tennis pro last year as a fun gag.

Unfortunately, none of them have a sense of humor.

_sabotage_ wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

_sabotage_ wrote:
I just don't respect AIPAC and the hypocrisy that is involved in championing Jews over other genocides that get ignored.

I agree that other genocides are important, but it really wasn't the Jews, per se that brought this one to our culture so strongly.

In most other cases, either the people being slaughtered or the people doing the slaughtering were "others" -- "primitive peoples", "people who worshipped other, inherently strange gods", etc. They were people we could set ourselves apart from.

A lot of other events were tragedeies, but "nothing to do with us", really.... so for most of the other examples. The holocaust, to contrast, was perpetrated by Germans, Europeans, people with whom most Americans identify, even have in their own families. Not just any Germans, even, but highly technological Germans, highly educated and "civilized" Germans. They were, plain and simply very much "like us". To think that "we"

The Germans are civilized and they slaughtered Jews. Is that what the fuss is about?

In big part, yes. Germans represented ideals of the time, ideals held by many in the US and made us face what the extreme of some of those ideals could lead to.

_sabotage_ wrote:We didn't seem to care when it was Christians slaughtering Christians or Muslims. Or Jews massacring Muslims. But we do care about Muslims killing Christians and Jews and Christians killing Jews.

Actually, people do. In fact, attention to the holocaust has led to more attention to those other types of issues as well. To some extent, though, its like learning about a chemical reaction. You see a few demonstrated in science classes early on and get the idea that big things can happen from mixing stuff... then beyond that you need to get into actual equations. You realize that while not every reaction results in "clouds of vapor" or "sparks" or other dramatic shows, these equations are important. Only those going to study higher chemistry really need to memorize long strings (and they mostly memorize patterns and such, not long strings per se). BUT.. because we all have that basic foundation we all "get" that chemistry matters and works.. even if we don't know the details.

Today, just say "holocaust" and we know you are talking about a massive slaughter, usually of a group of people. We know it is bad and wrong, but cannot always instantly fix things. On the other hand, while we cannot necessarily fix Rowanda.. or Siria today, we can teach our kids to respect other people, to understand that the world needs people who think and act differently, etc.

_sabotage_ wrote:Do we care if Jews kill Jews?

Most human beings care if people kill people, but one group killing another group because they are deemed inferior is quite different than, say the guy on the street killing you for your wallet or other such violance. The difference is in the means of prevention. Random violance is difficult to prevent because its basically a form of "insanity" in individual humans. Genocide, to contrast, is about not recognizing others as being of value, of classifying a whole group of people, way of thinking as being so harmful they need to be done away with or demeaning other people to the point that they don't deserve to live. (both work together in nasty ways). Combatting that takes mass education. Its in some ways much easier, but also more important to do than just combatting individual violance. It is more important because when you fight or exclude an entire group of people, its not just about the violance, its about the ideas they represent.

You smoke way too much crack.

You have no concept of history and can only reiterate mainstream jargon.

Read a book or two that wasn't part of your suggested summer holiday reading list or recommended by Oprah.

The scariest thing that you could tell the citizens of any nation is that the US is coming to "save" them. You still believe that we were welcomed as freedom fighters in Iraq don't you? You believe that those darned Palestinian terrorists have no right to be in Israel and that certain Jewish leaders didn't exploit the holocaust to the greatest possible extent and don't continue to do so today, because you were told that to think or say so is racist.

Any group would take advantage of any situation, but not every group is equally able to do so. Maybe you should take a support for Israel support letter in to work and make sure everyone signs it just so you can make sure they are free, anti-racist, linetoers.

Lil_SlimShady wrote:(Its a joke, dont start a religious debate, the topic here is jews)

Considering the randomness that this topic has gone through in 3 pages, I don't think you have much to stand on telling me to butt out. Sorry if religious remarks are boring to you, but may I suggest keeping it to yourself?

I never said they were boring. I didn't want to offend anyone by an iil placed joke that I thought was relatively funny and risk starting another debate that already has a 60+ page thread on the front page. I can see that my attempt to be politically correct has backfired and you are experiencing much butthurt.

This thread, ... wow... just wow.

Funkyterrance wrote:Ok so I watched the whole 20 odd minutes of the guy pointing out the 6,000,000,000 Jews references in the newspapers along with the dates and the fact that all of this was written before Hitler had even entered the government. So to be clear, this is implying a number of things:

-The 6,000,000,000 number just sounded good so the papers kept using that number for 20 years
-The media was proposing a Jewish Holocaust long before WWII
-The number of people killed in the Holocaust of 1933-1945 (6,000,000,000) is coincidentally the same as the number proposed were at risk for 20 years before.

Is this what I was supposed to get out of the video?

This is more to the point. The whole premise of the video is a crock, and anyone who thinks it actually says anything is naive. The "6 million" in all of those articles is based on one same estimate of the Jewish population of eastern Europe 20+ years before WWII. The fact that it is the same as the estimated number killed in the Holocaust is meaningless.

The use of the word "holocaust" in the other article was well before the official beginning of WWII, but well after Hitler took power in Germany. Once again, meaningless.

Nobunaga wrote:

Executions of Kiev Jews by German army mobile killing units (Einsatzgruppen) near Ivangorod Ukraine.

The exterminations in the Ukraine were not only of Jewish people but also a large chunk of Christians. Perhaps as many as three million Christians in the Ukraine were killed by just the Nazis, now how many did the Communists kill?

I am not familiar with this part of history and too lazy at the moment to google it. I am hoping someone already knows this stuff and is willing to elaborate my lazy arse.