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Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:53 am
by mrswdk
And yet Buddhism caught on with relatively poor people as well as relatively rich people.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:06 am
by nietzsche
mrswdk wrote:And yet Buddhism caught on with relatively poor people as well as relatively rich people.
I seriously have no clue lol. I know too little, if anything, about the history of eastern philosophies/religions. It did make sense on the western side and some sense on the eastern side. Thats why I was reluctant to share given the matter of fact point of view you guys have.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:14 am
by oVo
BBS wrote:Uh-huh. That's why they tend to have the highest per-capita homicide rates, right?
Their rates on average are even worse than the rates from all 20th century wars between nation-states. The "Noble Savage" idea is bullshit.
You're looking in the wrong corners of the world. I'm not speaking of noble savages at all, but cultures found in South America, the South Pacific and Indonesia. There's even arctic regions where people don't even possess weapons to assault other people. There are still people who actually have no concept of time, greed, possession, revenge or murder. The words don't even exist in their vocabulary.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:18 am
by mrswdk
@nietzsche
lel. No way of knowing either way really. Maybe the original Buddhists just wanted to seem deep in order to impress girls.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:09 am
by notyou2
nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:58 am
by BigBallinStalin
oVo wrote:BBS wrote:Uh-huh. That's why they tend to have the highest per-capita homicide rates, right?
Their rates on average are even worse than the rates from all 20th century wars between nation-states. The "Noble Savage" idea is bullshit.
You're looking in the wrong corners of the world. I'm not speaking of noble savages at all, but cultures found in South America, the South Pacific and Indonesia. There's even arctic regions where people don't even possess weapons to assault other people. There are still people who actually have no concept of time, greed, possession, revenge or murder. The words don't even exist in their vocabulary.
You might be right about a few groups. Hey, some were anarchic societies, but I wouldn't view them as optimal. Nevertheless, the general pattern of 'primitive' peoples has been pretty terrible. I'm gonna go with Pinker on this one.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:53 pm
by oVo
The dots you are connecting are stereotypes and not anthropological facts. Sure there were/are some nasty "primitives" with curious beliefs and habits, but it is not
as all inclusive as English speaking history teaches.
It's easier to justify colonization and the expansion of empire by force, when the previous inhabitants are labelled heathen savages.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:06 pm
by AndyDufresne
oVo wrote:The dots you are connecting are stereotypes and not anthropological facts. Sure there were/are some nasty "primitives" with curious beliefs and habits, but it is not
as all inclusive as English speaking history teaches.
It's easier to justify colonization and the expansion of empire by force, when the previous inhabitants are labelled heathen savages.
Very true. I was playing Europa Universalis 4 recently, and I was playing as the Papal State. Instead of being simply a religious power in Europe, I expanded a colonial empire into West Africa and South Africa, and we did well turning the heathens into good Catholics (or killing them and replacing them with good Catholics).
--Andy
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:28 pm
by thegreekdog
I still don't know that I fully appreciate the assumption that I'm unhappy as compared to a "pagan" (or that my alleged unhappiness has something to do with a monotheistic religion). I think that will need to be explained to me.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:02 pm
by oVo
I won't suggest that you are unhappy or that there is no joy in the way you live. But a society that doesn't require armed security to coexist is bound to sleep better.
Conform and do as you're told
and you'll be fine.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:26 pm
by thegreekdog
oVo wrote:I won't suggest that you are unhappy or that there is no joy in the way you live. But a society that doesn't require armed security to coexist is bound to sleep better.
Conform and do as you're told
and you'll be fine.
"requiring armed security" is a result of monotheism?
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:07 pm
by BigBallinStalin
oVo wrote:The dots you are connecting are stereotypes and not anthropological facts. Sure there were/are some nasty "primitives" with curious beliefs and habits, but it is not
as all inclusive as English speaking history teaches.
It's easier to justify colonization and the expansion of empire by force, when the previous inhabitants are labelled heathen savages.
I agree with the underlined.
The bold is false. Pinker makes heavy use of anthropological research too. He pretty much reverses what many have believed about 'primitive' groups being less violent than developed countries. It's odd that you're criticizing something without having read it.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:37 pm
by Dukasaur
... but I don't think of it.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:09 am
by Ray Rider
oVo wrote:BBS wrote:Uh-huh. That's why they tend to have the highest per-capita homicide rates, right?
Their rates on average are even worse than the rates from all 20th century wars between nation-states. The "Noble Savage" idea is bullshit.
You're looking in the wrong corners of the world. I'm not speaking of noble savages at all, but cultures found in South America, the South Pacific and Indonesia. There's even arctic regions where people don't even possess weapons to assault other people. There are still people who actually have no concept of time, greed, possession, revenge or murder. The words don't even exist in their vocabulary.
I can't speak for cultures elsewhere but I was born on a Native reserve, grew up around Native people, and have traveled to many First Nations & Metis communities in Canada so I feel I can speak with some authority on Native cultures here. I agree that most (I'm generalizing here) don't have a concept of time and their view of possessions and ownership is different that of the White culture; however greed, revenge, murder, etc. is still an issue and has always been an issue since before the Europeans came to North America. I've never heeard of any community where this doesn't exist; do you have some more information about this?
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:59 am
by nietzsche
notyou2 wrote:nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
If I said yes, would it change the way you feel about me?
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:07 pm
by TA1LGUNN3R
nietzsche wrote:notyou2 wrote:nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
If I said yes, would it change the way you feel about me?
Your rich friend can give me some money. I would love to be "bored" all the time. Who gets bored with 'sex, books and friends+beer'? That's, like, my ideal day.
-TG
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:19 pm
by oVo
If your friend is "bored" then he doesn't have it all,
but financial security is plenty.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:50 pm
by Serbia
BigBallinStalin wrote:You slovenly drunk! Are you care about is derailment--and not construction!
Construct, Serbia! Construct!
BigBallinStalin wrote:Are you care about is derailment--and not construction!
BigBallinStalin wrote:Are you care
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:32 pm
by BigBallinStalin
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:nietzsche wrote:notyou2 wrote:nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
If I said yes, would it change the way you feel about me?
Your rich friend can give me some money. I would love to be "bored" all the time. Who gets bored with 'sex, books and friends+beer'? That's, like, my ideal day.
-TG
You'd be surprised. Humans can have a unquenchable thirst for stimulation.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:33 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Serbia wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:You slovenly drunk! Are you care about is derailment--and not construction!
Construct, Serbia! Construct!
BigBallinStalin wrote:Are you care about is derailment--and not construction!
BigBallinStalin wrote:Are you care
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:39 pm
by mrswdk
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:nietzsche wrote:notyou2 wrote:nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
If I said yes, would it change the way you feel about me?
Your rich friend can give me some money. I would love to be "bored" all the time. Who gets bored with 'sex, books and friends+beer'? That's, like, my ideal day.
-TG
When you were a kid you never got to the end of a summer holiday and were perfectly happy to go back to school?
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:04 am
by TA1LGUNN3R
mrswdk wrote:TA1LGUNN3R wrote:nietzsche wrote:notyou2 wrote:nietzsche wrote:god damn it, i posted a long second response to Mrs. WDK last night, pressed submit, put the phone on the desk and the fucking thing failed to send the message.
Basically it was like this, boredom is a fact for some rich people, I have a rich friend, of those who won't have to work in their life, even his grand kids will have enough, and he complains he's always bored, that it's all the same, sex, books and friends+beer. That he doesn't feel like doing anything. Basically he's bored he has it all. You perhaps (Mrs.) are not rich enough, or even though you are rich you have other goals. In any case you are not a subject that would follow a religion I assume. But many people is, and more than trying to say one thing is right and another is wrong, i was interested in discussing, or knowing if anyone else had hear the authors idea.
Is the rich friend you?
If I said yes, would it change the way you feel about me?
Your rich friend can give me some money. I would love to be "bored" all the time. Who gets bored with 'sex, books and friends+beer'? That's, like, my ideal day.
-TG
When you were a kid you never got to the end of a summer holiday and were perfectly happy to go back to school?
No. 'Course, non-college schooling never offered much to me besides the social aspect. The only people who say they don't want to be rich are the people who've never experienced poverty.
If I were rich I could find plenty of things to occupy my time.
-TG
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:53 am
by oVo
If you are rich and bored?
You're doing it wrong.
Re: What do you think of this?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:48 pm
by mrswdk
oVo wrote:If you are rich and bored?
You're doing it wrong.
You mean 'if you are bored, you're doing it wrong'. Being rich has nothing to do with it. Poor people can get bored as well.