[Abandoned] - Trench Warfare!

[mibi]

some of those Trenches should be connected in the so its easyer to reach the artellery. And they cant be hit by artellery ofc but i get what your saying.

Well no player should go for the artillery, mortars, or reinforcements until they have complete control over their side of the trenches. It would be suicide to call in some 'orders' before you were ready.

[Androidz]

[quote=Androidz]some of those Trenches should be connected in the so its easyer to reach the artellery. And they cant be hit by artellery ofc but i get what your saying.

Well no player should go for the artillery, mortars, or reinforcements until they have complete control over their side of the trenches. It would be suicide to call in some 'orders' before you were ready.[/quote]

Even so it gives players option to try new things. new strategies...

[mibi]

Even so it gives players option to try new things. new strategies...

There are already many strategies to employ and all of them relate to the psychology and mechanics of trench warfare. We have to be careful when adding 'historical accuracy' that it doesn't ruin the psychology and game play and turn the map into something that is not really trench warfare.

[Androidz]

Even so it gives players option to try new things. new strategies...

There are already many strategies to employ and all of them relate to the psychology and mechanics of trench warfare. We have to be careful when adding 'historical accuracy' that it doesn't ruin the psychology and game play and turn the map into something that is not really trench warfare.

Still trenches was connected during that time, avoiding stepping on the top were they would be slaughtered like flies by the machineguns.


Now i get what you say but i getting the feeling that its nearly impossible to reach those arteillries since you must attack 8 terretories or so to reach them and you will be kiced back easly.

If that wont happen can explain me why pliss?

[Incandenza]

Still trenches was connected during that time, avoiding stepping on the top were they would be slaughtered like flies by the machineguns.

Now i get what you say but i getting the feeling that its nearly impossible to reach those arteillries since you must attack 8 terretories or so to reach them and you will be kiced back easly.

If that wont happen can explain me why pliss?

As always, if you go in with enough forces, you'll be able to knock out the orders, do some damage, and still have enough troops in reserve to maintain your foothold. And since deployments will be so low in any case, it will be the work of a couple turns (more if chained or adjacent forts) for the attacked player to get his house back in order.

The main point here is that having gaps between the trenches gives people more options, more chances to make strategic decisions. They can attack a trench head-on, they can slip around the side, they can bombard the crap out of it with artillery (once they get past the big honkin' neutral) and follow up with a smaller force, they can attack the bunker and the orders, etc. Plus it gives the defender more options, rather than just letting the autodeploy build up in the trenches.

Having trenches connect all the way across eliminates quite a few options on both sides of the equation and makes an attack across No Man's Land far less likely to succeed, which is not a good thing for the gameplay here. Successful trench warfare wasn't about just flinging brute force at the problem...

[Androidz]

Still trenches was connected during that time, avoiding stepping on the top were they would be slaughtered like flies by the machineguns.

Now i get what you say but i getting the feeling that its nearly impossible to reach those arteillries since you must attack 8 terretories or so to reach them and you will be kiced back easly.

If that wont happen can explain me why pliss?

As always, if you go in with enough forces, you'll be able to knock out the orders, do some damage, and still have enough troops in reserve to maintain your foothold. And since deployments will be so low in any case, it will be the work of a couple turns (more if chained or adjacent forts) for the attacked player to get his house back in order.

The main point here is that having gaps between the trenches gives people more options, more chances to make strategic decisions. They can attack a trench head-on, they can slip around the side, they can bombard the crap out of it with artillery (once they get past the big honkin' neutral) and follow up with a smaller force, they can attack the bunker and the orders, etc. Plus it gives the defender more options, rather than just letting the autodeploy build up in the trenches.

Having trenches connect all the way across eliminates quite a few options on both sides of the equation and makes an attack across No Man's Land far less likely to succeed, which is not a good thing for the gameplay here. Successful trench warfare wasn't about just flinging brute force at the problem...

Thx for answear:D

[Juan_Bottom]

Ok, I've been waiting for both trench maps.

Quibble! If you're going to generalize one side, you should generalize both. I.E. If you name one side 'allied' then the other should be 'axis.'

Let's not single the Germans out here!

[pepperonibread]

Ok, I've been waiting for both trench maps.

Quibble! If you're going to generalize one side, you should generalize both. I.E. If you name one side 'allied' then the other should be 'axis.'

Let's not single the Germans out here!

I don't think the Germans were called the Axis in WW1... they should be the "Central Powers".

[Incandenza]

True, the Germans were part of the Central Powers, but they were also the only ones fighting on the Western Front, whereas French, British, and American forces opposed them. Thus, Allies and Germans.

[gimil]

My first impressions are that for a mibi map im a little disappointed. the battle feild is much to plan and unexciting. There needs to be more carnage, trouble and mess! Right now I jsut think, "plowed field".

[asl80]

good start, looks good.
haven't read the discussion so far, but i'll judt drop a couple along the way.
- can you attack in and out of the machine guns etc.? or just bombard ... as it says.
- maybe artillary shouldn't be able to bombard territories near it self, would be a little odd that an artillary could open fire on it's own front.
- can mortar's attack the bunkers?, this would be a little strange if the supposedly stronger artillary couldn't (i assume not the orders)
- i support keeping or increasing the value of these high powered weapons ... mortar poss. neutral 50., give some time to capture and hold the trenches.
- the 90o setup on the machine guns is great
- the auto deploy on the trenches is good too.

graphics;
- surely things were a little muddy on the field ... i suggest lightening things up, more browns(lighter) more mud

[mibi]

good start, looks good.
haven't read the discussion so far, but i'll judt drop a couple along the way.
- can you attack in and out of the machine guns etc.? or just bombard ... as it says.
just bombard, there are sandbags there so its a bit cumbersome to attack over them.
- maybe artillary shouldn't be able to bombard territories near it self, would be a little odd that an artillary could open fire on it's own front.
sometimes, tough decisions are made when one is overwhelmed, bombard your own front, sure if thats what needs to be done.
- can mortar's attack the bunkers?, this would be a little strange if the supposedly stronger artillary couldn't (i assume not the orders)
no, motars cannot, however the artillery CAN
- i support keeping or increasing the value of these high powered weapons ... mortar poss. neutral 50., give some time to capture and hold the trenches.
well its balance, if they are too high, then people woudl just run across the trench rather than build for the better weapons, so you want to place them within reach at around the point when its a tough decision to go for them or not.
- the 90o setup on the machine guns is great
- the auto deploy on the trenches is good too.

graphics;
- surely things were a little muddy on the field ... i suggest lightening things up, more browns(lighter) more mud

cool

[t-o-m]

Looks great!

[hulmey]

True, the Germans were part of the Central Powers, but they were also the only ones fighting on the Western Front, whereas French, British, and American forces opposed them. Thus, Allies and Germans.

The Central power were Germany and Austria-Hungary forces. The allies were mainly France, England and Russia. USA joined the was in late 1917 and hardly mae a contribution to it!!! Russia lost over 1,200,000 troops whilst america lost only 150,00!

[Incandenza]

True, the Germans were part of the Central Powers, but they were also the only ones fighting on the Western Front, whereas French, British, and American forces opposed them. Thus, Allies and Germans.

The Central power were Germany and Austria-Hungary forces. The allies were mainly France, England and Russia. USA joined the was in late 1917 and hardly mae a contribution to it!!! Russia lost over 1,200,000 troops whilst america lost only 150,00!

While the part I bolded is debatable, my original point was that only certain of the combatants participated in what we think of as "true" trench warfare, as practiced on the Western front. And since this map is somewhat of an abstraction of a tactical trench situation, and not a recreation of a particular battle, "Allies" and "Germans" makes the most sense.

[mibi]

Changes:

1.fixed some spelling.
2. Machine gun minimap is 'sharper'.
3. Added wooden supports to the bunkers to make them stand out a bit more.
4. Flags are gone.
5. Distressed the title
6. Added zing to the orders
7. Added text to the mortar explaining that they cannot attack trenches.
8. various neutral changes
0. Added graphical stuff to no mans land. Some tiny shards of shrapnel and some blood soaked dirt. I attempted to add little dead guys but it looked really dumb, espeically with the numbers in place. The blood soaked ground will hopefully add some carnage without having to add real carnage which just clutters the whole thing up.


[bigimg]http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7726/trench6ai0.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4765/trench6nve7.jpg[/bigimg]

[Ethitts]

Nice update. Me likey

[whitestazn88]

graphics are looking slick

[Juan_Bottom]

The graphics are nice.

How 'bout barbed wire impassables? Or -1 landmines or something?
I'm certain that you guys have already thought about this, but I'm just wondering what made you decide that these weren't for your map? I'm just guessing that it is because it is a smaller-sized map?


Also, has anyone printed this out and tesed it yet? I'm dying to know if the gameplay works as well as I hope....

[mibi]

The graphics are nice.

How 'bout barbed wire impassables? Or -1 landmines or something?
I'm certain that you guys have already thought about this, but I'm just wondering what made you decide that these weren't for your map? I'm just guessing that it is because it is a smaller-sized map?


Also, has anyone printed this out and tesed it yet? I'm dying to know if the gameplay works as well as I hope....

Barbwire was considered but it would be a bit superfluous. Considering the high neutral count in no mans land, the existence of impassables and having to go around them would be a huge change to game play. Currently, all of no man's land acts as kind of an impassible, until you have the army strength. And I don't think landmines existed back then, I could be wrong though.

[Juan_Bottom]

And I don't think landmines existed back then, I could be wrong though.

We had 'em during the Civil War even!

[Incandenza]

And I don't think landmines existed back then, I could be wrong though.

We had 'em during the Civil War even!

While land mines existed, they weren't a very significant part of WWI trench warfare. We made the same decision vis-a-vis airplanes.

As far as playtesting, well, perhaps a little farther down the road (tho I doubt my risk set has enough armies to stand in for all the neutrals!). Though any and all comments on the balancing of the neutrals are quite welcome.

Thanks to all who have commented thus far!

[gimil]

[adv. idea]

[Incandenza]

Word. Thanks, gim.

[yeti_c]

Sweet stuff guys - I'll pop in and comment fully when we get to the Found of Ry!

C.