Conquer Club

Mr_Adams wrote:and what would you have me call the redistribution of wealth through taxes and government benifits? I call 'em how I see 'em.

Except, first catalogue all those benefits the wealthy get without even thinking, including the ability to hire healthy and educated people and not pay them what it takes for those people to have a safe house, decent food and educate their kids.

Frigidus wrote:

King Berzerker wrote:

Frigidus wrote:I'm for universal health care. If you don't have a right to not die of simple, treatable diseases then something is messed up with your system. And seriously, stop calling it socialized medicine. If you're going to try to manipulate people, why not just go all the way and call it "The People's Great FASCIST Pinko Flag Burning Medicine"

sorry yo! i thought of you post when i saw this

To me that picture is almost a parody of itself. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intended to be sarcastic. I mean if you disagree with something, that's fine. But if I lay out a universal health care plan to somebody, and their best rebuttal is "well, that's all well and good, but it's SOCIALISM!", I would immediately discount their opinion, as they're a knee-jerk reactionary moron.

can u explain how its not SOCIALISM!

thegreekdog wrote:Conservatives see no problem with Haliburton (or any other government contracts doled out by President Bush) while having a major problem with universal healthcare. Liberals have a big problem with President Bush in general, but are vehemently in favor of universal healthcare.

I'm surprised that you can't see the difference. One lines the pockets of some billionaires who are friends with the elected officials, while the other is an attempt to provide basic health care for all citizens.

King Berzerker wrote:

Frigidus wrote:

King Berzerker wrote:

Frigidus wrote:I'm for universal health care. If you don't have a right to not die of simple, treatable diseases then something is messed up with your system. And seriously, stop calling it socialized medicine. If you're going to try to manipulate people, why not just go all the way and call it "The People's Great FASCIST Pinko Flag Burning Medicine"

sorry yo! i thought of you post when i saw this

To me that picture is almost a parody of itself. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intended to be sarcastic. I mean if you disagree with something, that's fine. But if I lay out a universal health care plan to somebody, and their best rebuttal is "well, that's all well and good, but it's SOCIALISM!", I would immediately discount their opinion, as they're a knee-jerk reactionary moron.

can u explain how its not SOCIALISM!

I shouldn't have to. There should be reasons for disliking something other than that it belongs to a school of thought used by a particular group of people who were also douche bags.

douche bags? who are ru saying r douche bags? and still, what about obamacare is not socialist. if it is socialist, then we call it socialist... i think it is, u say it isnt... how is it not is wut i asked

Lenin, Communist ruler of Russia said something to the effect of "to make a people communist, they must first be made socialist". It's a slippery slope, and you are in opposition of being cautious.

Run in fear, everyone!!!

The commies are coming! The commies are coming!

Now you sound like McCarthy. that is a great overstatment.

My point is that you're yammering on about pure bullshit. If "socialized medicine" was just a step down the "slippery slope" to communism, then EVERY wealthy, industrialized nation in the world (other than the USA) would be run by a bunch of commies by now.

Get your head out of your ass, and try joining the rest of the world.

Timminz wrote:My point is that you're yammering on about pure bullshit. If "socialized medicine" was just a step down the "slippery slope" to communism, then EVERY wealthy, industrialized nation in the world (other than the USA) would be run by a bunch of commies by now.

Get your head out of your ass, and try joining the rest of the world.

practically tho. why do u have to be insulting against someone that has different ideas than u. it makes you sound like a militant douche bag. some people r failures and want the gov to pamper them. they are not fun to be around. others like to stand on there own 2 feet and make there own way. i like them best. they are more interesting, less needy and have better character.

look dude... dont b a dick. it sucks.

All I'm "Yammering" about is that I don't trust the government with control of my health care. And you shouldn't either. And don't tell me to go out and get private health care on the side, because if you look at previous examples, such as Canada, there is no private sector of health care anymore, from what I understand. It was gradual government take over.

Mr_Adams wrote:All I'm "Yammering" about is that I don't trust the government with control of my health care. And you shouldn't either. And don't tell me to go out and get private health care on the side, because if you look at previous examples, such as Canada, there is no private sector of health care anymore, from what I understand. It was gradual government take over.

dood... dont forget how good they handle social sec, education, and all the other stuff they "do for the people." people r better off on thier own.

King Berzerker wrote:

Timminz wrote:My point is that you're yammering on about pure bullshit. If "socialized medicine" was just a step down the "slippery slope" to communism, then EVERY wealthy, industrialized nation in the world (other than the USA) would be run by a bunch of commies by now.

Get your head out of your ass, and try joining the rest of the world.

practically tho. why do u have to be insulting against someone that has different ideas than u. it makes you sound like a militant douche bag. some people r failures and want the gov to pamper them. they are not fun to be around. others like to stand on there own 2 feet and make there own way. i like them best. they are more interesting, less needy and have better character.

look dude... dont b a dick. it sucks.

Don't worry dude. It's not your fault you're uneducated. You can thank your parents for that.

Mr_Adams wrote:All I'm "Yammering" about is that I don't trust the government with control of my health care. And you shouldn't either. And don't tell me to go out and get private health care on the side, because if you look at previous examples, such as Canada, there is no private sector of health care anymore, from what I understand. It was gradual government take over.

It's (mostly) true. Although, most Canadians actually consider that to be one of the best things the government has ever done for its people. Also, you could look at any of a large number of other countries that DO have a functioning two-tier health care system. In fact, a lot of the countries in "socialist" Europe have exactly that.

Really though, when your country is founded on mistrust of its elected officials (as so many of you seem to think the USA was), I can see why you would fight everything they try to do that doesn't involve "getting the fuck out of my life".

Bottom line to me is, when the primary goal of the health care industry is profit, that's what you're going to get (well, the people running the insurance companies will, at least), and when the primary goal is to keep the ENTIRE population as healthy as possible, well, maybe those handful of people won't be making their millions, but at least I know my children aren't going to die of something preventable/treatable, and I'm not going to lose my home because I can't afford cancer drugs.

To support nothing but a privatized health care industry means one of two things. Either you're rich, and selfish, or you're stupid. And I suppose those things are not mutually exclusive.

Timminz wrote:
Don't worry dude. It's not your fault you're uneducated. You can thank your parents for that.

you wont even explain ur position and you are insulting, but you cal me uneduicated.

King Berzerker wrote:

Timminz wrote:
Don't worry dude. It's not your fault you're uneducated. You can thank your parents for that.

you wont even explain ur position and you are insulting, but you cal me uneduicated.

You clearly didn't (couldn't?) read the rest of my post.

Timminz wrote:

King Berzerker wrote:

Timminz wrote:
Don't worry dude. It's not your fault you're uneducated. You can thank your parents for that.

you wont even explain ur position and you are insulting, but you cal me uneduicated.

You clearly didn't (couldn't?) read the rest of my post.

u didnt explain how it isnt socialism.

King Berzerker wrote:

Timminz wrote:

King Berzerker wrote:

Timminz wrote:
Don't worry dude. It's not your fault you're uneducated. You can thank your parents for that.

you wont even explain ur position and you are insulting, but you cal me uneduicated.

You clearly didn't (couldn't?) read the rest of my post.

u didnt explain how it isnt socialism.

It's no more socialism than having a police force, or public schools are socialism. The point is that just because some asshole told you that anything socialist is the devil, doesn't make it so.

Look out! It's a witch!

i dont think i said socialism was evil. i just said that this was socialism. but i do think that government run stuff is not very efficient. schools are bad in amer4ica when compared to other countries. police is crap, lots and lots of them are on the take. so if those are ur shining examples of social programs in amerika then i will keep my hc as is thank you.

Mr_Adams wrote:Lenin, Communist ruler of Russia said something to the effect of "to make a people communist, they must first be made socialist". It's a slippery slope, and you are in opposition of being cautious.

Lennin also apparently like beer and breathed air... definitely a slippery slop there!

King Berzerker wrote:i dont think i said socialism was evil. i just said that this was socialism. but i do think that government run stuff is not very efficient.

Using what measure? The government is in control of things that we really don't want to make a huge profit.

King Berzerker wrote:schools are bad in amer4ica when compared to other countries. police is crap, lots and lots of them are on the take. so if those are ur shining examples of social programs in amerika then i will keep my hc as is thank you.

Show a country that does these things effectively through private ownership and you might have a discussion. And, actually, the US has historically had excellent schools. However, when you have 30 years of presidents and Congress fightnig against spending any money on much of anything but defense... things do tend to slide.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:Lenin, Communist ruler of Russia said something to the effect of "to make a people communist, they must first be made socialist". It's a slippery slope, and you are in opposition of being cautious.

Lennin also apparently like beer and breathed air... definitely a slippery slop there!

this is a distraction. a vin diagram could be made from this. beer and breathing is mutually exclusive from being a communist dictator.

I think Obama is great. Just what the USA needs right now after eight years of surely one of the most corrupt administrations in its history as well as one of the most moronic presidents in its history.

I remember when Bush was running in 2000 and thinking there is no way the Americans will elect such an obvious idiot. But they did. I didn't realise that guns, religion and pro-life could get him so far.

One thing that's always confused me is how so many Americans on the right go loopy at the Democrats for being socialists (which seems to suggest almost Maoist in its meaning) yet supported a Republican administration who vastly overspent but did it through tax cuts and increased debt...and then didn't even bother to invest in hospitals and schools with the money. Totally kafka, that.

By god you've had a 'big government' for the last eight years anyway (patriot act and all the rest of it) yet without any of the benefits going to the people. I once read that the average American's wage hasn't gone up since 1981, your public schools close at 2.30pm due to lack of funds in many states and a sizeable bulk of your people can't go to the hospital. At least when Attlee indebted the UK (1945-1951) the principles of universal education and healthcare were enshrined.

'Big governments' that devote themselves to redistribution are socialist in nature. Nothing wrong with that at times. 'Small governments' that devote themselves to minimising the state, keeping money in your pocket and increasing competitiveness in the market are fine too. We call that capitalism. But 'big governments' that rack up the national debt, don't spend on the people but rather plunge the cash into massive tax relief for big business and foreign invasions are something else entirely. We call that fascism.

That is completely off topic. nobody said that they would rather have Busch, and frankly, I'm not happy with any of the last 4 presidents, and I've only been around for 3 of them! The point now is that Obama is leading us down a path we don't like. Now, I know we have Bush-Chainy crap that needs to be repealed, and dismantled, but the way to do that is most certainly not more crap from the new administration.

King Berzerker wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:Lenin, Communist ruler of Russia said something to the effect of "to make a people communist, they must first be made socialist". It's a slippery slope, and you are in opposition of being cautious.

Lennin also apparently like beer and breathed air... definitely a slippery slop there!

this is a distraction. a vin diagram could be made from this. beer and breathing is mutually exclusive from being a communist dictator.

And all of the Mr. Burns' of the world are capitalists. This doesn't mean everything capitalist is evil.

Mr_Adams wrote:That is completely off topic. nobody said that they would rather have Busch, and frankly, I'm not happy with any of the last 4 presidents, and I've only been around for 3 of them! The point now is that Obama is leading us down a path we don't like. Now, I know we have Bush-Chainy crap that needs to be repealed, and dismantled, but the way to do that is most certainly not more crap from the new administration.

If by 'off-topic' you mean adding a little historical context then I suppose I am guilty as charged, though I'm not sure that would be considered off-topic by most people.

But hey! You've got your view and don't let anyone stand in your way with some useless old facts!