Ultimate Captain+ Doubles [Big_Whiskey & nikola_milicki]

chessplaya · Post by **chessplaya** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:16 am

hello!?

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:33 pm

Sets 5/6/7 are open. Please join ASAP!

Tables are updated as of Nov 15.

firstholliday · Post by **firstholliday** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:39 am

who stole our dice?

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:02 pm

There are still some games which some teams haven't join. Please do it ASAP. You would have 24 hours to join the games.

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:42 am

Scott/Chess defeated Nikoli/B Whiskey in game # 1165513 Mid Earth

Scott/Chess defeated RL/Blitz in game # 1165545 Cairns Coral Coast

pjdon/goggles defeated Scott/Chess in game # 1165524 N America

Blitzaholic · Post by **Blitzaholic** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:36 am

gg guys

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:20 pm

All games in sets 5/6/7 are started. Tables will be updated on Monday.

I am planning to start all escalating games next Wednesday.

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:13 am

Scott/Chess defeated Nikoli/BWhiskey in game # 1201493- Alexander

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:57 pm

Tables are updated as of Nov 19.

RL_Orange · Post by **RL_Orange** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:56 pm

1165522 GAME OVER

BLITZ and RL beated Karlo Veliki and LEONE

chessplaya · Post by **chessplaya** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:07 am

I hope that no points will be taken to the last round?

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Being a seeded tournament- I'm not sure if I totally agree with advancing points from the previous rounds to begin with. You're right Chess- I can't imagine points being advanced again............ with only 6 final teams.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:59 pm

It is tough for me to argue, because I can be called impartial again.

But still here goes my reasoning behind the points transfer:

1. First of all it is just 50% of points difference. For the next round i suspect we will have between 6 and 9 points. So max bonus u can have will be around 2 points. Which is just 1 win against 1 lose.
2. Points transfer makes every game count.
3. Players who played good during the duration of the tournament have benefits. Players who barely got into the next round are penalized for that. At the end of the day, why only 10 last games should decide the winner, but not all 30. Otherwise, what the point of previous games???
4. Even though it was not written in the original tournament description, I always had it in mind. In fact, it was one of the reasons, why i didn't like original Selin's tournament. Check this post, dated back in march: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=272310#272310. I apologize for not disclosing my ideas beforehand more clearly.
5. There is a parallel from playing poker, where you have to transfer 100% of your winnings to the next round. You played better, you have more chips.
6. Just because I am on receiving end of this rule, and I don't want to be called partial, again; I can consider reducing 50% points transfer to 25%. But this change must be retroactively applied to the current points transfers.

To do that I would like to hear other people's opinion first.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:01 pm

Scott-Land wrote:Being a seeded tournament- I'm not sure if I totally agree with advancing points from the previous rounds to begin with. You're right Chess- I can't imagine points being advanced again............ with only 6 final teams.

I don't understand your reasoning, Scott-land. What number 6 has to do with points advancement? Can you please elaborate more?

Blitzaholic · Post by **Blitzaholic** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:54 pm

AndrewB wrote:STANDINGS:

Table #12
Qualified Round 1:

Code: Select all

o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
| #  | Group A                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Total| 
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
|    | Blitzaholic - RL_Orange      | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 |  7  |
|    | jaydog - Nephilim            | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |  6  |
|    | nvwinelover - Mike Doherty   | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  5  |
|    | reptile - luckywar           | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |  5  |
|    | alstergren - eye84free       | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |  4  |
|    | merz - hknox7                | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |  3  |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o


o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
| #  | Group B                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Total|
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
|    | AndrewB - David_Wain         | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |  8  |
|    | pjdonald - goggles paisano   | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  5  |
|    | trestain - ptlowe            | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |  5  |
|    | Fantine - Rebellionleader    | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |  5  |
|    | casper - nickfox             | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  4  |
|    | AAFitz - Wild_Tiger          | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |  3  |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o


o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
| #  | Group C                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Total|
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
|    | Donkey - Greycloak           | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 |  7  |
|    | chessplaya - Scott-Land      | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |  6  |
|    | RiskTycoon - Big Yuma Ripper | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |  5  |
|    | Karlo Veliki - LEONE         | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 |  5  |
|    | Forza AZ - dragon dor        | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  4  |
|    | aliakber1001 - 4 u 2 nv      | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |  3  |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o


o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
| #  | Group D                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Total|
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o
|    | yorkiepeter - chard          | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  8  |
|    | Big Whiskey - nikola_milicki | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 |  6  |
|    | Firstholliday - Sir Titus    | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 |  6  |
|    | wolfmaster - DP07            | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 |  5  |
|    | General Franco - Chubarik    | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |  3  |
|    | jiminski - Uberwald          | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |  2  |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o

Table #13
Qualified Round 2:

Code: Select all

o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o
| #  | Group A                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Prev.|Curr.|Total|
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o
|  1 | AndrewB - David_Wain         | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 |   |   | 1 |   |   |   | 1.5 |  4  | 5.5 |
|  4 | Donkey - Greycloak           | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |   |   |   |   |   |   | 1   |  2  | 3   |
| 12 | trestain - ptlowe            |   |   | 1 | 1 |   | 1 |   |   |   |   | 0   |  3  | 3   |
|  9 | nvwinelover - Mike Doherty   |   | 0 | 1 | 1 |   | 0 |   |   |   |   | 0   |  2  | 2   |
|  8 | jaydog - Nephilim            |   |   | 0 | 0 |   |   |   |   |   |   | 0.5 |  0  | 0.5 |
|  5 | Firstholliday - Sir Titus    |   | 0 | 0 | 0 |   |   | 0 |   |   |   | 0.5 |  0  | 0.5 |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o


o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o
| #  | Group B                      | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |Prev.|Curr.|Total|
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o
| 11 | pjdonald - goggles paisano   | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |   | 0 | 1 |   |   |   | 0   |  5  | 5   |
|  7 | chessplaya - Scott-Land      | 1 | 0 |   | 1 |   | 1 | 0 |   |   |   | 0.5 |  3  | 3.5 |
|  2 | yorkiepeter - chard          |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   | 1.5 |  0  | 1.5 |
|  6 | Big Whiskey - nikola_milicki | 0 |   | 1 | 0 |   | 0 |   |   |   |   | 0.5 |  1  | 1.5 |
|  3 | Blitzaholic - RL_Orange      |   | 1 | 0 | 0 |   |   |   |   |   |   | 1   |  1  | 1   |
| 10 | Karlo Veliki - LEONE         | 0 | 0 | 0 |   |   | 1 |   |   |   |   | 0   |  1  | 0   |
o----o------------------------------o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o-----o-----o-----o

Table #14
Finals:

wouldnt are total be 2 right now?

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:04 am

Blitzaholic wrote:wouldnt are total be 2 right now?

Corrected.

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:56 am

I wasn't asking you change the rules- Andrew. I was merely following up on Chess' question. It was just an opinion for future tournies , I suppose.

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:40 am

AndrewB wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:Being a seeded tournament- I'm not sure if I totally agree with advancing points from the previous rounds to begin with. You're right Chess- I can't imagine points being advanced again............ with only 6 final teams.

I don't understand your reasoning, Scott-land. What number 6 has to do with points advancement? Can you please elaborate more?

I think that 3 to 4.5 points are gonna be very difficult to make up for the two or so last place teams within 10 games- 30 available points and a max of 10. But that's how you're running this tournament- an escalating advantage putting more importance on the 2nd and 3rd rounds of play. Think the final round will be less competitive and a formality.........

Generally speaking for the teams advancing because I don't think Chess and I will make the finals. It shouldn't affect us at all.

There's nothing wrong with how you are running the tournament-Andrew. I'm just giving you my two cents worth since you asked. = ) I've had a blast so far-

EDIT: Format is also reseeding each round instead of keeping 1 bracket, we're playing 3 separate ones. I also think that with the points and teams that are playing better gets an added advantage. That also maybe the way the tournament is designed- again nothing unfair about it.

pjdonald · Post by **pjdonald** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:46 am

Andrew, I must say I am solidifying an opinion of you that are too shifty to be counted on. I didn't appreciate the change in rules that carried forward points, not only because it put my team at a disadvantage, but because it just seemed under-handed.

Now if you're talking about changing again, I think that just exacerbates the problem. FWIW, my team is now in position to benefit from the rule change (as currently in place). Removing that now would be ridiculous, IMO.

Also, I don't think you've explicitly stated how, if at all, round 1 points apply to round 3. I'm not sure I'm thinking about this totally correctly, but I think you should determine the 3 advancers to round 3 using the 50% round 1 adjustment, but that adjustment should not be applied to round 3. Doing so would give double credit to round 1.

For example, if division B were to end right now, the top 3 teams advancing would do so based on 5, 3.5, and 2 points. But in calculating their finals adjustment, I think 5,3,1 should be used.

chessplaya · Post by **chessplaya** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:23 am

ummmm

i think for the final table no points should be transfered with any of the teams

I did see the need for it in the 2nd round

but for the final its all different

Again not that it will affect us ( scott-land And I ) cuz as already stated by him we r not doing good so we dont think we r qualifying!

chessplaya · Post by **chessplaya** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:26 am

+ i think

lets say 4th of group B has 5.5 points as for 3rd of group A has 5 points

I would say 3rd of group A is not qualified

4th of group B qualifies

Again just my 2 cents

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:01 pm

I would like to hear other people opinion first, before making my decision.

But effectively we have 3 options:

1. No points transfer at all.
2. Points transfer of 50% from the previous round.
3. Points transfer of 25% from the previous round.

We currently set at the option 2. I won't be able to consider option 1 at all. But I can consider option 3.

When we talk about points transfer we talk about total point transfer. That means that effectively round 3 will include 25% (50%*50%) of round 1 winnings, as it stands right now.

The rebuttal to both your Scott-land's and pjdonald's comment is this:
1. This tournament consists of 30 games. And every one of them counts. What is the reason of playing well in the qualification rounds? If you played bad in the first 20 games, you have to be panished for that.

Anyhow, the last 10 games will have a weight of 100%, whereas games from round 2 will only weigh 50% and from the first round only 25%.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:06 pm

Sets 8/9/10 have been open, please join.

firstholliday · Post by **firstholliday** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:09 pm

Not that it matters (we didn't won a game...sigh) BUT

I think both sides are having a point, that is in poker you take all to next rounds. But in football it will be a winner takes all.

My personal opinion is that there should be no points carried over to future rounds. The begin stages are just there to loose Teams so you can work to a final. However if this is the way you want this tourney to be, it's your choice coz it's your tourney.

We will not make it but i had fun playing top-players.
Wish this would run all year.

1st

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:09 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
AndrewB wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:Being a seeded tournament- I'm not sure if I totally agree with advancing points from the previous rounds to begin with. You're right Chess- I can't imagine points being advanced again............ with only 6 final teams.

I don't understand your reasoning, Scott-land. What number 6 has to do with points advancement? Can you please elaborate more?

I think that 3 to 4.5 points are gonna be very difficult to make up for the two or so last place teams within 10 games- 30 available points and a max of 10. But that's how you're running this tournament- an escalating advantage putting more importance on the 2nd and 3rd rounds of play. Think the final round will be less competitive and a formality.........

It is not going to be 3 to 4.5, as I was saying i am expecting the maximum transfer to finals to be around 2 points. Can be made up in 1 game (1 win vs 1 lose). As results stand right now, the maximum transfer equals to 1.5 points.