Conquer Club

mibi wrote:Finally a Testosterone VS Estrogen map. I have been waiting for this since I got bored with classic.

..."ditto" here !!!

Matt ... don't lose hope... you're original artwork is the envy of many, but for this author... it is something to marvel at !!!

Maybe somehow you could tone-down the brightness on your impressive Graphics ability... but nonetheless: Great graphics bud !!!

I - like "mibi" in the above quote- can't wait to play on this !!! I hope the silent majority like myself get "outta the closet and speak up" !

Having said my peace... take care and have a great summer !

luxCRUSADER.

So we have an update to the New Design finally. I've been pretty busy, but I'm back. Here's the update to the new look. XML coming soon.
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/ReNew.png[/bigimg]

So in this draft I muted the background and changed a few other minor details. I really like this one a ton better. I hope you all like it better. Any comments are always appreciated.
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2.png[/bigimg]

Ahoy Mattosaurus,

I think you have a novel idea in regards to gameplay---the "army bonuses" as you term them. So I commend you on that. However, I think your achievements in the gameplay dept are hampered by the the current theme, and visuals, you have going. Testosterone and Estrogen don't quite scream appealing map theme.

But what if you took your general idea of gameplay, and applied it to something more befitting---say trying to control/harness chain reactions and interactions between molecules and elements, which then can be "used on your enemy" (I.E. your bonus deployment").

Anyways, I think you've got an idea, I'm just not sure this current execution is the best one.


--Andy

I agree with Andy about the bonuses, but I would like to see a clarification regarding whether a 5-carbon ring can be a bonus on its own or part of the two- and three-ring bonuses, or it does it only come into the four-ring bonus.

I disagree with Andy about the theme. The struggle of male versus female is timeless.

I'm not sure what the background imagery is supposed to convey, and I'm not sure how well the male and female figures go with the rest of the picture. I don't think they necessarily have to be 3-D, but they do seem a bit flat compared to the molecules. The molecules stand out from the background as they should, but they appear to be resting on the background, while the figures seem a bit like flat pictures floating in front of the background. Perhaps the traditional astrological symbols for Mars (the shield and arrow ♂) and Venus (hand mirror ♀) would make good gender indicators.

So in this draft I muted the background and changed a few other minor details. I really like this one a ton better. I hope you all like it better. Any comments are always appreciated.
Sorry about the layout of the poll. The poll wouldn't accept any answers unless I had at least four, so I put the options in there several times.

So I added a symbol of man and woman as requested. I can leave it as is, switch out the pictures of the man and woman for the symbols, or have both in there as in the example. Will start a new poll soon on this.
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2a.png[/bigimg]

ender516 wrote:I
I disagree with Andy about the theme. The struggle of male versus female is timeless.

I agree, though I think with the current graphics, it does nothing to this actual theme. The map could be labeled "Atom Wars" for all I know.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

ender516 wrote:I
I disagree with Andy about the theme. The struggle of male versus female is timeless.

I agree, though I think with the current graphics, it does nothing to this actual theme. The map could be labeled "Atom Wars" for all I know.


--Andy

So should I give some kind of story on the map? Would that give it more personal appeal, or would it just be unneeded fluff? Most people don't readily recognize the structures for these common steroids, but I guess that's one reason for it, for some education. We have plenty of maps that teach us history, but precious few that teach us anything about science. I know "learning" isn't really why we're here, but hey, I enjoy molecular structures, and this at least has a theme familiar enough to have an appeal. I could try to explain things better on the map, but i tried a bit and it just confused the map. So any idea as to how i can improve graphics or layout or the name in order to make it more apparent that the Male vs Female is the theme? I tried to do that with fonts and colors, but if you have a way to make it clearer that would be great.

Maybe adjust the background itself so that while it's still muted, each part of the background implies the theme of the"side" it's on. I.e. make the estrogen-side background a dull pink.

Maybe turn the Testosterone into a vague man shape and Estrogen into a vague women shape

sailorseal wrote:Maybe turn the Testosterone into a vague man shape and Estrogen into a vague women shape

Do you mean the molecules or the words?

Here's a third Edition, with a pinkish background for the Female side and with the color of the Female symbol changed to match. I also added a statement that ring bonuses do not stack. Here it is:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2b-1.png[/bigimg]

So in this draft I muted the background and changed a few other minor details. I really like this one a ton better. I hope you all like it better. Any comments are always appreciated.
Sorry about the layout of the poll. The poll wouldn't accept any answers unless I had at least four, so I put the options in there several times.

So I added a symbol of man and woman as requested. I can leave it as is, switch out the pictures of the man and woman for the symbols, or have both in there as in the example. Will start a new poll soon on this.
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2a.png[/bigimg]

Here's a third Edition, with a pinkish background for the Female side and with the color of the Female symbol changed to match. I also added a statement that ring bonuses do not stack. Here it is:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2b-1.png[/bigimg]

It's nice to see how you are incorporating suggestions so quickly (especially some of mine). I like the idea of the pink-toned background for the estrogen half of the map, but the colours you are actually using for that and the female symbol ♀ are a bit too purple in my view. Maybe something closer to a baby pink would be more effective. More like this rather than this.
Also, if you restart your poll about "Would you play this map?", try these as four answers: "Definitely", "Probably", "Probably not", and "Definitely not". You could also add "On the fence" in the middle.

So I did a bit of tweaking on this one that I think makes the whole thing a ton better. I made the pink on Estrogen darker and a bit redder, I made some fonts bigger, mainly so they would be legible on the small map, darkened a few other colors to fit the theme, and rearranged some peripheral images and such to fit better and put more focus on the male and female symbols. So What do you think?

Large Image:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2d.png[/bigimg]

Small image:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2dsmall.png[/bigimg]

I'm still not fond of the shade of pink on the background or the colour of the female symbol, but I like the visual balance of all the graphical elements.

Now as to the bonuses. Keep in mind I am not commenting on the values of them here, just the way they are described. First, I think the legend should drop the word "Army". You could replace it with "Structure", perhaps, or just say "Bonuses".

Now a question: does the 5-carbon ring (testosterone carbons 1 through 5, or estrogen carbons 13 through 17) count for a bonus just as any of the other 6-carbon (benzene) rings do, or does it only count as part of the biggest bonus? If it does, you may need to add more examples, showing the 5-carbon ring on its own and conjoined to one and two benzene rings.

Next the terminology: I don't think "consecutive" is quite the word you want, either "complete" or "conjoined" might be better, and the meaning of "Ring Bonuses Do Not Stack" isn't immediately clear to me. Here at CC, when I hear the word "stack", I think of troops being deployed without attacking and building up a stronghold. May I suggest the following wording for the legend, which should make clear what I think you plan the bonus scheme to be (I am marking this as code to get the fixed width font):


I don't think that leaves any room for doubt about what the bonuses would be. Two separate carbon rings would count 4 each, naturally.

As far as the fonts go, I can see the numbers on the small image, so well done.

Good work on the speedy updates!

Here's a new update. Cleaned up a few graphics and changed the background colors for the female side and symbol. I like it even more than the last one. Keep the comments coming.

Here's the large one:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2e.png[/bigimg]

And here's the small version:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2esmall.png[/bigimg]

Here's an update taking into account recent comments made by ender516. I also did a couple things on my own.
I made the female color a bit pinker and the symbol too.
I also blended the blue and the pink to make it a bit less stark.
The way the bonuses were stated was changed to clarify better what is meant.

So here they are, starting with the large:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2f.png[/bigimg]

Small:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2fsmall.png[/bigimg]

These graphics are really coming along. The new pink is a big improvement in my eyes, much more girly, as it should be. It is very gratifying to see you accepting my suggestions so readily.

At this point, I've had three tries to come up with a color for the girl side background. So we're going to vote on them. We'll start with the pinkest and go to the purplest and see what you all think.

Again, my poll maker is acting very strange, so this was the best I could come up with as far as getting all the options there.
Pink
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2f.png[/bigimg]

Magenta
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2e.png[/bigimg]

Violet
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2b-1.png[/bigimg]

I'm liking the pinkest version the most.

Also, have you clarified whether owning the 5-carbon ring gives a bonus or not?

Echospree wrote:Also, have you clarified whether owning the 5-carbon ring gives a bonus or not?

I haven't clarified that, but yes, I intended for the 5 carbon ring to give the bonus. Anyone have any ideas as to how to make that clear on the map?

mattosaurus wrote:I intended for the 5 carbon ring to give the bonus. Anyone have any ideas as to how to make that clear on the map?

I am not sure if you have room, but if beside "1 Complete Carbon RIng" you put a picture of a 6 carbon ring and a 5 carbon ring with the word "or" between them, that should get the idea across. Scrounge a bit more space, and you can put both possibilities next to the other levels of bonus as well ( 6 + 6 or 6 + 5, and 6 + 6 + 6 or 6 + 6 + 5). Luckily, there is only one possibility for four rings, and the 5 carbon ring always appears only at the end of a chain.

Ways to free up space for these examples: move the pink Carbon-yellow Oxygen-green Hydrogen legend next to the female symbol; move the "2 Oxygens: 2, 4 Oxygens: 4, 5 Hydrogens: 1" to a single horizontal line of text across the bottom of the "Bonuses" legend; slightly reduce the size of the example rings.

Spelling correction: you do not want an apostrophe in "Spheres attack each other..."

Colour suggestion: Although I like the grey spheres as they are, one might consider making them blue to carry through the blue vs. pink, male vs. female dichotomy.

So the recent poll gave this as the best map. So here it is Large and small. Comments on how to improve and if you like are always appreciated.
Version 15 Large:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2f.png[/bigimg]

Version 15 Small:
[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2fsmall.png[/bigimg]

So I adjusted the way bonuses were displayed to make how they work clearer. These were done by suggestion by Ender516 and I hope they are totally clear now. I will be working on making a blue carbon version of the Testosterone next.

[bigimg]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/hotmattosaurus/renew2g.png[/bigimg]