[Abandoned] - Ukraine & Moldova

[captainwalrus]

The borders need to be a little darker over the light parts of the map, it is near impossible to see.

[The Neon Peon]

Version 5:
[bigimg]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9854/ukrainelagreversion5.jpg[/bigimg]

Previous Version:
[bigimg]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4684/ukrainelagreversion4.jpg[/bigimg]

Plans for next version:
- Swap the Ukrainian symbol and bonus box placement?
- Make the Bonus box pretty
- Do we need army circles?

[The Neon Peon]

No one is commenting

Version 6:
[bigimg]http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8437/ukrainelagreversion6.jpg[/bigimg]

Anyways, changed the bonus box placement, made the Ukrainian symbol conform in size and blending options to the Moldovan coat of arms in size, blending options and opacity. I also changed the bonus box to be hopefully better than the slightly faded white box with a glow around it.

[SuicidalSnowman]

I am going to comment because I think this is a very nice idea. I like the idea of the build your own bonus and the relatively open field.

Personally, I liked the lighter sky background, but that is just personal taste.

What I can say is that I think the map works better with the bonus box on the left, and the coat of arms on the right.
1) First of all, Kudos on making a map that doesn't require a magnifying glass and separate notebook to determine all the rules and bonuses. While I think complicated maps do have an important role here at CC, the simplicity of this map shows the amount of thought and intelligence in the design.
2) But form an aesthetic point, I think the balance is better. Right now, both the title (with a coat of arms behind it) and the coat of arms are on the right side. I think it looks more balanced with it on the left, and the rule box on the right.
3) I think the coat of arms fits nicely in with the geography of the south west side of the map.
4) I think you need to make a choice on this point:

a) Keep the very nice new bonus box, and cut off the end of Simterpol. Sacrifice geographic accuracy for looks.
b) Use the older style bonus box, but allow the end of Simterpol to cover it.

And one final nitpick, I think that the bridges need to be darkened to keep in with the overall darker look. They look too bright and "cartoony" on the darker map. Or maybe you need the sort of white shadow on them like you did on the farms? I don't know, I'm not a photoshopper...

Either way, I think this and the England map are going to be awesome when they come out.

[The Neon Peon]

I am going to comment because I think this is a very nice idea. I like the idea of the build your own bonus and the relatively open field.

Thanks

Personally, I liked the lighter sky background, but that is just personal taste.

I've been getting many complains, mainly from the friends I've showed the map to off of the site, and so far I've gotten unanimous agreement that the darker is much better. Personally, I like the lighter as an image, but I like the darker as a map.

What I can say is that I think the map works better with the bonus box on the left, and the coat of arms on the right.

Thanks, still fine tuning things, but nice to know I am going in the right direction.

1) First of all, Kudos on making a map that doesn't require a magnifying glass and separate notebook to determine all the rules and bonuses. While I think complicated maps do have an important role here at CC, the simplicity of this map shows the amount of thought and intelligence in the design.

Thank you once again.

2) But form an aesthetic point, I think the balance is better. Right now, both the title (with a coat of arms behind it) and the coat of arms are on the right side. I think it looks more balanced with it on the left, and the rule box on the right.
3) I think the coat of arms fits nicely in with the geography of the south west side of the map.

I'm trying to come up with something that makes the bonus box stand out more to balance that out. I agree completely with you here, but so far all the things I've tried ended up looking horrible out of place.

4) I think you need to make a choice on this point:

a) Keep the very nice new bonus box, and cut off the end of Simterpol. Sacrifice geographic accuracy for looks.
b) Use the older style bonus box, but allow the end of Simterpol to cover it.

I can always do both since box are a box and roughly the same size.

And one final nitpick, I think that the bridges need to be darkened to keep in with the overall darker look. They look too bright and "cartoony" on the darker map. Or maybe you need the sort of white shadow on them like you did on the farms? I don't know, I'm not a photoshopper...

Will make them darker, nice observation.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, I think this is my first time commenting on this map, but I've looked at it a few times and I think i like it. Here's a few questions and crits for you:

Why include Moldova? Is it just to get a few extra territories in there or...

I think I also like the shinier, golden map rather than the darker one you posted recently.

The coat of arms... is that Ukraine or Moldova or maybe both? Shouldn't it reflect that countries involved?

This might be contrary to what you're trying to do, but I would like to see the non-farm territories marked with something more than the absense of a farm... outline them in brown or something? The problem is, when I look at a map I believe that I should be able to get a fairly good idea of what the situation is without looking too hard. The problem I'm finding with this map is that I look at it and have to take some time to realize which territories have farms and which don't and then link that with the actual image of Ukraine and its territorial divisions. The actual territories do not reflect whether or not they have farms on them and I think it makes the graphics a tad hard to work with in terms of game play... perhaps you could make the non-farms barren land?

Anyway, that's all I see at the moment... it definitely looks like a unique map to play and I expect it should be fun. I think its good enough to get stickied at least, if not then just the draft stamp and move on to the finer details. Great work!

[The Neon Peon]

Why include Moldova? Is it just to get a few extra territories in there or...

It's two extra territories, but without them, the "dent" in the map in the southwest corner of the map is increased greatly in size.

I think I also like the shinier, golden map rather than the darker one you posted recently.

I'll go fix up some of the differences between the two (such as the symbol/legend placement) then put up a poll.

The coat of arms... is that Ukraine or Moldova or maybe both? Shouldn't it reflect that countries involved?

The one at the top of the map is of Moldova, the one at the bottom is the Ukrainian coat of arms.

This might be contrary to what you're trying to do, but I would like to see the non-farm territories marked with something more than the absense of a farm... outline them in brown or something? The problem is, when I look at a map I believe that I should be able to get a fairly good idea of what the situation is without looking too hard. The problem I'm finding with this map is that I look at it and have to take some time to realize which territories have farms and which don't and then link that with the actual image of Ukraine and its territorial divisions. The actual territories do not reflect whether or not they have farms on them and I think it makes the graphics a tad hard to work with in terms of game play... perhaps you could make the non-farms barren land?

Excellent idea! I'll look into it and see what I can come up with.

Anyway, that's all I see at the moment... it definitely looks like a unique map to play and I expect it should be fun. I think its good enough to get stickied at least, if not then just the draft stamp and move on to the finer details. Great work!

Thanks.

[RedBaron0]

I agree, the lighter one is much better. If you're looking for more contrast, darken just the outside, non-playable areas of the map. In fact it might even be best you not even worry about that part of the whole image, for now. So perhaps just fill in that whole area with white or black or just some base color. Focus on the playable map itself first and foremost and then add things to those blank areas as the playable surface is better setup and understood by the community. Not that the map itself isn't understood right now, it just gives the whole process a path to follow, and along the way you'll pick up more supporters as the whole thing comes into focus.

One thing at a time. It will focus your thoughts on particular aspects of the map and help your overall progress. Things on the map will change numerous times and as you read back over the thread at a later point you'll realize just how much your map has changed. On occasion I run through the thread I have for the Japan map (shameless plug, I know... ) and I amaze myself at the changes made and how much different my original image is than the current one.

[isaiah40]

I agree, the lighter one is much better. If you're looking for more contrast, darken just the outside, non-playable areas of the map. In fact it might even be best you not even worry about that part of the whole image, for now. So perhaps just fill in that whole area with white or black or just some base color. Focus on the playable map itself first and foremost and then add things to those blank areas as the playable surface is better setup and understood by the community. Not that the map itself isn't understood right now, it just gives the whole process a path to follow, and along the way you'll pick up more supporters as the whole thing comes into focus.

One thing at a time. It will focus your thoughts on particular aspects of the map and help your overall progress. Things on the map will change numerous times and as you read back over the thread at a later point you'll realize just how much your map has changed. On occasion I run through the thread I have for the Japan map (shameless plug, I know... ) and I amaze myself at the changes made and how much different my original image is than the current one.

So true! I've looked back at my map and am amazed at how far it's come. Map is looking good, keep it up the good work!

[SuicidalSnowman]

On the whole lighter/darker debate, I guess I am starting to feel that, much like neon said, the darker map fits well for a game map. I actually really like the way the right side of the map looks dark and foreboding. The purple clouds on the left are a little distracting, but I think I am starting to feel the dark version more the more I look at it.

[The Neon Peon]

Poll up for the following versions. The only difference between the two is that the second map is lighter...

Version 6:
[bigimg]http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8437/ukrainelagreversion6.jpg[/bigimg]

Version 6a:
[bigimg]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2417/ukrainelagreversion6a.jpg[/bigimg]

[soundman]

I like it darker but I think the one you have now is too dark. I'd try making it somewhere in between the two maps. Coming along great! I really like this idea!

[The Neon Peon]

Chemistry homework took less time than I expected, and I was bored.

[bigimg]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6938/ukrainegrahpicsreworked.jpg[/bigimg]

Just something I wanted to try out, why do you think?

[SuicidalSnowman]

Chemistry homework took less time than I expected, and I was bored.

[bigimg]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6938/ukrainegrahpicsreworked.jpg[/bigimg]

Just something I wanted to try out, why do you think?

For me, no.

Here's why: Your map is all about farms. I think the other background fits better with the farming theme. Books, large stone buildings, and women in finery don't really say anything farming to me.

If this map was about building Ukraine, or something like that, maybe yes.



It is a beautiful image!

[RedBaron0]

Which could be a sign that maybe you should move towards a more traditional bonus structure, colored regions and such. That is a fantastic background. However, the map itself is kinda just on top of it and blending in. Your tinkering isn't a map, but primarily a pretty picture. Not a bad thing, just make the map more visible!

[Industrial Helix]

I'm leaning in favor of going back to the farm background. I think it worked nice.

[isaiah40]

Diffidently go back to the farm background! Unless you can find another background something like the new one but about farming. If you do, the map needs to be darker so it doesn't blend in with the background.

[ender516]

Yes, my vote is to return to Version 6a. But I should say I preferred the earlier layout with the coat of arms in the southwest and the legend in the southeast. (Version 5, was it?)

Also, is someone going to be upset by the title, which mentions both countries but gives top billing and a larger font to Ukraine, being pasted over the coat of arms of Moldova? Messing with national symbols can be a touchy subject. Maybe the Moldovan arms and title should be in the southwest, near the country itself on the map, and the Ukraine title and arms should be in the northeast (nice diagonal composition), with the legend in the southeast. Perhaps even a slight colour difference to demarcate that they are separate countries.

[targetman377]

i like map 6a i also like the game play holding farms. i like the new angle too play this map i like the lighter version for a number of reasons the first is that it is a map bassed on farms and farms to me = happy light=happy=farms so the lighter the better!

[The Neon Peon]

Seems like there's a consensus, good

I just wanted to throw that out there, I don't think I even saved the psd file for it.

[TaCktiX]

Just a quick pop-in. Please for the sake of thematic continuity use a different icon for farm. Take inspiration from Civilization, or perhaps Ukrainian imagery from the time period you're drawing from, but those cheesy "Barn and Silo" icons just grate on every bit of knowledge I have of the Ukraine.

[targetman377]

quick concern will you get the 1 troop for every 3 territory no matter what??? just a little confused

[The Neon Peon]

quick concern will you get the 1 troop for every 3 territory no matter what??? just a little confused

Yes, why wouldn't you?

[targetman377]

cause there are some maps like that. i did asume this map would still have that but i just wanted to make sure.

[targetman377]

ok here is just a quick concern i have to many farms touching each other on pavlograd, mariupol, tokmak, and izyum are all tuching pavlograd i think you should get raid of that and move it too izmayil otherwise i feel there no reason to every take izmayil also it would even out the bounces a little more.