[Abandoned] - CUBA

[Industrial Helix]

Mod Note:Abandoned - If resurrected, gameplay must be checked again.



Special features: Commanders start at 8 and are starting positions
Territories: 27 on the map + 8 commanders= 35 Total territories.

V18
[bigimg]http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/5395/cubaconquer.jpg[/bigimg]


Previous versions:

show

Finally the last map for the pack: The Cuban Revolution.

This map is much smaller but maintains many of the key features of its counterparts. What I noticed in reading about it was that both the USA and USSR had little to do with it. The USA under Eisenhower turned its back on Batista and placed an arms embargo on the government, in turn this prevented Batista from effectively dealing with the rebels. Furthermore, Fidel Castro said upon the conclusion of the revolution that he was not a Communist. Also, a number of arms deals between the 26th of July movement (what the Cuban Communists were called before they picked up USSR support) and the Soviet Union failed, seemingly from lack of interest by the USSR.

It wasn't until the USA was just as stubborn towards the Castro regime as it was to the Batista regime that they sought support elsewhere. The M-26-7 absorbed all political parties, notably the Cuban Communist Party. Che Guevara ended up making deals with the Soviet Union about some missiles and the rest is history.

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/Cuba.jpg[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Well the cuba map looks really small, lots of bottlenecks... perhaps too much.

I don't think you can develop very complex gameplay with so few territories... How about adding some sea territories? Making each sea route a territory would help. Could any cities be added?

And please don't host JPG:s in photobucket... they crappify all JPG:s by recompressing.

[Industrial Helix]

No sea territories for two reasons. One... sea by definition is not territory. Two... I just don't like them. Three... they lend themselves to gameplay strangely, in my opinion, for example, Alexander's Empire.

But bottlenecks are kind of a problem. Or are they? Each distrito borders two commanders. You will always be under attack and since the gameplay is superbonuses, you can't just bottle neck your bonus so easily.

Cities could be added but only as a last measure. As it is, they're balanced with battles and the cities attack commanders so having one per distrito is necessary.

Yeah, but we're not exactly at the graphics workshop just yet. Minor details.

[TaCktiX]

Got an Assult when talking about the Republica de Cuba. I think the small map actually works to an extent, no complaints thus far. Plan to Brief this now?

[Industrial Helix]

Here's the plan.

I've received word that these maps must be broken into individual threads to continue. As you all are aware, there is a map limit of 2 per mapmaker. South Africa 1885 will continue next but then the communism map pack will go on, once voting has ended.

So, which of these four maps would you like to see made first?

[natty dread]

I voted for russia... That and the chinese map seem the most interesting. Vietnam and Cuba have some gameplay issues, I'm not saying they couldn't become good maps though, but I'd still rather see the china & russia maps made first. That way the cuban & vietnamese maps could be further developed, and maybe the process of putting the russia & china maps through first would give some ideas on them.

[WestWind]

Even though I haven't contributed at all to this map yet (still getting my head around the gameplay ) I voted for the Chinese Revolution. It seems like it's the most interesting right off the bat, and will pave the way very well for the next maps. I'm looking forward to seeing these develop more!

[MarshalNey]

This is painful! It's like voting which one of the ally orphans you want to take in out of the cold... I love them all.

Argh, I guess I'll... no... I think....

Russia? No, wait, China. I'll vote for China, since it's the most polished and the easiest to analyze. That way, it should zip through to Beta and you can bring those other maps into the warmth of the gameplay forum.

[Rih0]

I think you should launch cuba as the last one, For a continental reason:
China, Russia and vietnam are in asia, while cuba is in america.
Also, cuba seems with strange gameplay.

[theBastard]

no one

show

[Industrial Helix]

I've got a space in my maps development and it seemed like a good time to get some discussion going on the gameplay of this map. Thoughts anyone?

[bigimg]http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7908/cuba.png[/bigimg]

[the.killing.44]

Way too linear.

[Industrial Helix]

More sea links or more territories?

[Bruceswar]

Thoughts? Yuk! I just cannot seem to find myself behind this idea.

[Industrial Helix]

For gameplay reasons or graphics?

[Teflon Kris]

Maybe worth having some kind of link between the east and west ends of the island.

Or enabling commanders to border / bombard / be bombarded by more regions?

[Bruceswar]

For gameplay reasons or graphics?

a bit of both to be honest.

[Industrial Helix]

@ DJ Teflon - Some sort of link at the points might be an idea... I'll look into it.

@Bruce - Well, the gameplay is what I'm focusing on here and this is just a standard graphic to show it. I plan on totally redoing graphics at the Graphics Workshop, much like I did for South Africa. Some advice or insight into what you'd like to see in the gameplay would be appreciated. Already I see its too linear... anything else?

[Bruceswar]

I am really not into this whole cuba revolution, as that is really not gonna happen in this lifetime. In fact I would much rather have a simple straight forward map with no gimmicks at all on it.

[Industrial Helix]

Alright, so your preference is noted that you'd rather have a standard Cuba map over one depicting the rise of Castro's government. Well, to take it towards that direction would be contrary to the whole Rise of Communism series where a bunch of people voted to see this one next. However, I would concede that perhaps many who voted for it wanted to see any Cuba map at all... not necessarily the revolution. Perhaps a poll would be necessary?

Out of curiosity, why don't you like this whole commander aspect? What could be done to enhance the importance of having competent commanders leading armies than the system I'm proposing?

[Victor Sullivan]

I apologize for my delayed response to your map, IH, but I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Well, I think I have my thoughts straight on this map now: I like it. I just think it's rather disorganized and looks more complicated than it actually is. The whole commander legend just seems like a bunch of stuff shoved in rectangles and smashed together. My thoughts for now. I like the smallness of the map.

-Sully

[Industrial Helix]

I apologize for my delayed response to your map, IH, but I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Well, I think I have my thoughts straight on this map now: I like it. I just think it's rather disorganized and looks more complicated than it actually is. The whole commander legend just seems like a bunch of stuff shoved in rectangles and smashed together. My thoughts for now. I like the smallness of the map.

-Sully

Good to know... I wonder if perhaps it might be better to take a different approach with the commanders and place their camps or something on the map.

[Teflon Kris]

Yeah, I was thinking of a different approach to the commanders, which may also help deal with the 'linear' problem, and add some semi-unique gameplay.

See what you think of this (perhaps I should sketch it out to explain):

Players start on one of 8 commanders linked (one-way perhaps) to a city. Starting commanders aren't linked to the capital Havana.

All cities can attack the region they are in, and are each linked to a naval force. There is a northern and southern naval force. Both naval forces connect (2-way) to Havana, and, perhaps, naval commanders.

The capital Havana is also linked to commanders Castro and Guevarro, as well as an airborne division.

The airborne division can bombard all commanders.

Holding Castro and Guevarro wins the game.

Holding any commander is a condition for remaining in the game (the new xml feature)

A system like this would hopefully reduce the linear problem as the important attacks woukld be from city to naval force to captial (then to the winning commanders / airborne division).

[Industrial Helix]

Hmm... interesting ideas here. Well, as it is now, the commanders each attack at a point on the island, the Republic of Cuba at the cities and the revolutionaries at the countryside. The trick, I think, is integrating the map and the commanders more. So essentially, this is on track with what you've explained.

The biggest problem i have is that the airforce and the navy were never really involved in the revolution. Essentially, Castro landed by boat and worked his way up the island. They fought a few battles but Batista just packed his money and fled. Castro, in the end, won by default. So I feel hesitant in adding elements like Airforce or Navy, and would rather keep to the history... but perhaps something can be substituted for air or sea power.

[Teflon Kris]

The biggest problem i have is that the airforce and the navy were never really involved in the revolution. Essentially, Castro landed by boat and worked his way up the island. They fought a few battles but Batista just packed his money and fled. Castro, in the end, won by default. So I feel hesitant in adding elements like Airforce or Navy, and would rather keep to the history... but perhaps something can be substituted for air or sea power.

Yeah, sticking to history to a certain degree is important with a map such as this, so, if we can think of some feature like navy or air force and call it something else we may be on to a winner.

I'll get my thinking boots on tomorrow, I can't find them just now ...