[Abandoned] Mesoamerica

[natty dread]

Map Name: Maya - The Classic Era
Mapmaker(s): natty_dread
Number of Territories: 45
Special Features: No-bonus regions, collection bonuses
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: It has unique theme and interesting gameplay

Map Image:

[bigimg]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2514/maya3.png[/bigimg]


[spoiler=older versions]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2514/maya3.png
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/300/maya2v.png
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2670/maya2r.png
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7725/maya2q.png
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3145/maya2b.png
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7696/maya1.png
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/7696/maya1.png[/spoiler]

Thanks to Oaktown for the original idea for this map.


Gameplay:

The capitals start as neutral 3:s, everything else is random. This gives 39 starting regions, which gives:

2 players: 13 regions each, 22 neutrals
3 players: 13 regions each, 6 neutrals
4 players: 9 regions each, 9 neutrals
5 players: 7 regions each, 10 neutrals
6 players: 6 regions each, 9 neutrals
7 players: 5 regions each, 10 neutrals
8 players: 4 regions each, 13 neutrals

Capitals give bonus for their neighbouring regions. Trade routes give a bonus for holding all regions along a trade route.

[Oneyed]

I look at some of your maps and I am always wonder what a nice graphic you do with GIMP. (f*ck, I can not ).

I think it is clear idea, just kick off trade route from Palenque - its only capital which lies on trade route... or add trade route to each capital...

Oneyed

[natty dread]

I am always wonder what a nice graphic you do with GIMP.

All it takes is practice.

its only capital which lies on trade route...

Why does it matter?

[Oneyed]

Why does it matter?

capital is needed for regions bonus. and this one capital gives you also trade route bonus...
do you think is it possible to add one trade route to southeast?

Oneyed

[natty dread]

capital is needed for regions bonus. and this one capital gives you also trade route bonus...

Yes but Palenque is in the middle of the map, it's the worst spot strategically, so doesn't it deserve a bit higher bonus?

do you think is it possible to add one trade route to southeast?

By contrast, southeast is very secluded and there already is a trade route connecting to it.

[sannemanrobinson]

Would be nice to make a First Nations series with Inca, Inuit etc. too.

[natty dread]

A bit of theme-appropriate background can't hurt:

[bigimg]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7696/maya1.png[/bigimg]

[koontz1973]

Might be an idea to join the trade routes to each capital. They would of been the centre of trade. So get them all starting and ending in capitals with the odd cross over for an added extra fighting territ.

[Flapcake]

A bit of theme-appropriate background can't hurt:

[bigimg]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7696/maya1.png[/bigimg]

It's realy a nice map you done there, the color scheme is straight in the eye, I'd really like pastel colors, the mountains, you just hit spot on, you know trees and mountains can get people to discuss for weeks or more, I hopes it does not happen here becourse they fit just perfect (volcan is uber cool)

capital / temples might be a bit more Inca / Mayan style stepped pyramid.

Otherwise, I have not much to say, that beside yoguslavia this is one of your best

[natty dread]

Might be an idea to join the trade routes to each capital. They would of been the centre of trade. So get them all starting and ending in capitals with the odd cross over for an added extra fighting territ.

But that would make them all really unfeasible as bonuses, so what would be the point in having them...

The capital icons are temporary, I'll be redoing those at some point.

[koontz1973]

Might be an idea to join the trade routes to each capital. They would of been the centre of trade. So get them all starting and ending in capitals with the odd cross over for an added extra fighting territ.

But that would make them all really unfeasible as bonuses, so what would be the point in having them...

The capital icons are temporary, I'll be redoing those at some point.

Not really, it would just make them a later game bonus. Right now with your 3 you have 2 at 4 territs and one at 5 (I know the mountains are there so only 4 territs to defend, but you still need to take 5 territs) to get the same bonus.
By having them start and finish on the capitals neutral 3, you remove all drop bonus (however small it is).
If you want to keep them small, you can.
Teotihuacan to Palenque (5 territs)
Palenque to Cichen (5)
Cichen to Tikal (4)
Tikal to Copan (4)
Copan to Danipaguacho (7)
Some will be harder to get than others but this will give players options to think about and fight over in the larger games.

[natty dread]

Not really,

Yes really. A string of 5-6 regions in a straight line with each region a border? That's an unfeasible bonus, especially on a map this size, and no one's going to try holding it. "Late game bonus" basically translates to "bonuses you hold when you've already won the game".

Also I don't want all bonuses to be dependent on the capitals, which will be starting neutral. I want there to be some bonuses you can take without taking neutrals. I'm not too worried about people dropping the trade routes, the smallest of them are 4 regions, and even if it becomes a problem it can be solved with starting positions.

[natty dread]

Improving the graphics a bit.

[bigimg]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3145/maya2b.png[/bigimg]

[Industrial Helix]

Glad to see this map on the move.

It might be cool for the non-affiliated area to have a rebellious decay.

[koontz1973]

But right now your trade routes make no sense. They are just randomly placed dots on a map.
If I have goods to sell in Kaminajuyu, why would I travel all the way to Mitla when my capital is right next door. Surly I can sell my goods there for a better price and not have to go through hostile territory. And why does no one want to sell to the Tikal people?

[natty dread]

But right now your trade routes make no sense. They are just randomly placed dots on a map.

Your mom is randomly placed dots on a map....

In Helsinki we have our airport in the neighbouring city, and all the air traffic to Helsinki, like mail and such, goes there and then is transported here. Helsinki is the capital of Finland, in case you're not aware.

Anyway, you should know by now that if you place realism above gameplay, you end up with crappy maps. Gameplay should always be first priority.

Glad to see this map on the move.

It might be cool for the non-affiliated area to have a rebellious decay.

It might, but then I'm not sure if it serves any good gameplay purpose?

[koontz1973]

Your mom is randomly placed dots on a map....

WTF has my mum got to do with this?

In Helsinki we have our airport in the neighbouring city, and all the air traffic to Helsinki, like mail and such, goes there and then is transported here. Helsinki is the capital of Finland, in case you're not aware.

What has Helsinki got to do with Myans?

Anyway, you should know by now that if you place realism above gameplay, you end up with crappy maps. Gameplay should always be first priority.

GP trumps real life but stupidity does not trump GP. Right now the trade routes make no sense and there for are stupid. I am sure you can come up with a better solution if you spend more than 2 minutes thinking about it. That is what they look like. As if you just decided to do some paths randomly over the map with no though or reasoning behind it.

[natty dread]

GP trumps real life but stupidity does not trump GP. Right now the trade routes make no sense and there for are stupid.

Well thanks for that opinion. You know what's really stupid though? Making a map with a crappy and unbalanced gameplay.

[koontz1973]

GP trumps real life but stupidity does not trump GP. Right now the trade routes make no sense and there for are stupid.

Well thanks for that opinion. You know what's really stupid though? Making a map with a crappy and unbalanced gameplay.

Like this one then. GL. And you did not answer the other question, what has my mother got to do with this map? You always start with the insults when somebody disagrees with you. Why?

[natty dread]

Well, like I previously indicated, Your Mother was a huge inspiration for all the random dots all over this map. I could never have achieved such a randomness of dots without seeking consultation from Your Mother.


Are you having a bad day Koontz? I don't remember you being so sensitive and temperamental before.

[natty dread]

As you can see from this image, the actual trade routes didn't necessarily correlate with the capitals in mayan culture. So if you're saying it's "stupid", fine, maybe the mayans were stupid. But simply because you think something is stupid, doesn't mean it shouldn't be (or wasn't) done that way.

For that matter, the "capitals" weren't really capitals per se... they were simply the strongest cities which ruled over the neighbouring, smaller cities and collected taxes from them. The smaller cities could still have their own trade with other cities. I've simply named them "capitals" on this map because that's easier for players to relate to, it's more intuitive that way, and makes their gameplay role clearer.

[natty dread]

Anyway, all things considered, I'm changing the routes somewhat. I moved the western route 1 step away from Palenque, for consistency. Also added a new route between Quirigua and Uaxactun.

Also: I'm changing the name of the map to The Mayans. Mayan Empire is a bit misleading since there was no single empire with a centralized rule, rather there were numerous smaller Mayan empires or kingdoms or city-states.

[bigimg]http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7725/maya2q.png[/bigimg]

[Oneyed]

looking nice. one trade route has 5 regions, while the rest 4 regions. could this be changed?

[natty dread]

It does but it still only has 4 borders, Abaj Takalik is protected by the mountains.

[natty dread]

Come to think of it, I'm not entirely satisfied with the name "The Mayans" either. It kind of sounds like some kind of bizarre sitcom tv show about mayans who practice all kinds of funny shenanigans like trying to avoid being sacrificed to the sun god and such...

Maybe "Mayan Nations"?